Three major things the legalistic Pharisees didn't recognize.

[KennethC]

ah dear Ken

you concluded something I did not say...so questions would be better perhaps? next time?

there will always be variance of doctrine...I have changed my own over the years...haven't you?

yes, scripture does agree with itself...of course...but I do not think I possess all truth...do you think you possess all truth?

refusing to discuss, which is not you obviously, is a person's perogative of course


however, if one is going to refuse a perfectly legitimate question and act like a prig about it, then the entire thread becomes of no use other then a breeding ground for arguements

Well yes the doctrine I have followed has changed over the years because I was following the teachings that man was giving without testing it by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.

10 years ago I stopped listening to man and put my full life in the hands of God and the Holy Spirit to guide me in His word, and since then He has opened my eyes to a lot of truths and showed me falsehoods being taught now days.

Yes I know there will always be a variance of doctrine in the churches, but not the Church (body of believers), and the scriptures clearly state that variance is to show the true believers from the false one's.

1 Corinthians 11:19
for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The omission of righteous “Judgment” according to the law.

If you all understood this, You would be preaching Tax collector salvation, Not pharisee self righteous salvation.

You preach law. your words have a form of Godliness, But as paul says, it is wretched. Because you refuse to repent, and see how sinfull you truly are. Your too busy judging everyone else trying to put them under law.

Maybe you just do not like being alone in your self righteousness? You need to bring more people in. so you do not feel so guilty? I know the HS is working on you. Maybe one day it will sink in?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thanks for sticking around just-me and kennethc, keep fighting the good fight. i'm interested in watching the topic, so if the derailers want to keep on trying to derail so the message cant get out, just ignore them. some of us are interested in what you have to say.

so we want to get the truth out, and we derail?

Wow, Well hey, thats ok, If you do not want to find out why Adam, Noah and Abraham understood complete mercy, judgement and faith apart from the law. Then thats on you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I honestly do not know how you can infer I do not consider or put lack of emphasis on doctrine from the that statement

Jesus is the Son of God...He is not doctrine

There is a distinction there that is significant and I had hoped to develop that further....again, you are READING INTO what I stated

Isn't it obvious to you that doctrine cannot possibly be what Jesus said would make us one?

If doctrine, ie mine is better than yours, is what makes believers one, then again, prepare to go down with the ship cause it's sinking fast

Of course doctrine is important!

So is clearly reading what another poster writes WITHOUT reading into it

It might occur to you that you are actually doing the very same thing with scripture that you are doing to posts in this thread

You are ADDING to what is written...I don't know why; that is something you might look into

Last I read, Jesus was called the "logos" Not Doctrine

Doctrine is a term used to describe mans interpretation of the "logos" Many people have different doctrines.

Kens Gospel "doctrine" is different than your and my Gospel "Doctrine" but he wants to argue doctrine, not truth.. He is too churched,, meybe it is too late for him??

Nah, Saul was more churched than he was, and he saw the light, there is always hope

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well yes the doctrine I have followed has changed over the years because I was following the teachings that man was giving without testing it by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God..

Your Still doing it. You got rid of a few sacraments, that's all. Your basically following the same lie.

 

[ember]

keep it up you will be on ignore also. Ken does not like being questioned.

It is ok if he questions, judges, or bears false witness to others, but if you do it to him, Your done.

 

[ember]

Last I read, Jesus was called the "logos" Not Doctrine

Doctrine is a term used to describe mans interpretation of the "logos" Many people have different doctrines.

Kens Gospel "doctrine" is different than your and my Gospel "Doctrine" but he wants to argue doctrine, not truth.. He is too churched,, meybe it is too late for him??

Nah, Saul was more churched than he was, and he saw the light, there is always hope

ahh finally!!!!

yes, Jesus is not doctrine!!!

 

[ember]

Well yes the doctrine I have followed has changed over the years because I was following the teachings that man was giving without testing it by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.

10 years ago I stopped listening to man and put my full life in the hands of God and the Holy Spirit to guide me in His word, and since then He has opened my eyes to a lot of truths and showed me falsehoods being taught now days.

Yes I know there will always be a variance of doctrine in the churches, but not the Church (body of believers), and the scriptures clearly state that variance is to show the true believers from the false one's.

1 Corinthians 11:19
for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

hmmm...I do not personally believe we are to go it alone with only the Holy Spirit

My understanding, is that counsel is advised and teachers are a gift from God through His Spirit

I sure do wish I had listened to folks who tried to tell me certain things

We are to search the scriptures...but even Paul went to the Apostles to have them examine what he had been shown

 

[ember]

Yes I know there will always be a variance of doctrine in the churches, but not the Church (body of believers), and the scriptures clearly state that variance is to show the true believers from the false one's.

1 Corinthians 11:19
for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

well this is the tricky part then, isn't it!

if you believe everyone else is wrong (generic you...as in an anyone you) then others are all factions...

personally, I am open to correction as I have learned that we can only absorb so much no matter how right we think ourselves

that would not mean every single thing I believe either, because, of course, certain things such as salvation are basic to Christianity

 

[KennethC]

I am alarmed at the sudden resort to claiming that people who disagree with your exortations have become, somehow, of the devil, demonized or whatever expression you are trying to convey here

Ken did the same thing with his rebuking satan post

you guys are really off on a tangent here and I realize you now think you may be protecting yourself from demonic attacks but I can assure you, having dealt with the demonic, that no such is occurring

your flesh is yelling is all and it is getting just plain weird

I went back and read this and had to respond, because here you are jumping into the middle of on going tactic's that have been carried over from other threads.

Just-me has his reasons for pretty much ignoring Ben that have risen from past discussions that is not simply from just a disagreement with scripture.

Same with me with the usage of get behind me satan, because that was stated toward one individual I have given more than one chance to have friendly respectable debates with, but instead they continued to be unedifying and passing false allegations at me. And even though I have them on ignore and they well know this they still try to attack my character and belief in front of others instead of speaking on the topic at hand.

What fruit of the Spirit is there in doing that ???? NONE !!!

Plus remember Jesus said the same thing to Peter.................

 

[ember]

sorry...I really have to take care of things in real time

be back later unless real time runs out of time

always another day of course...unless the world ends

 

[PeterJens]

please refer then to Bens' posts...I am in agreement with him and they might speak to you with reference to your question

Fail 101. You just passed the buck. In any argument you have to state the premise.
Bens argument is any, ANY list of morality is hypocritical. He is very poor at concepts.

The bible is a whole book of lists and examples of morality, all of Jesus's sharing is about relationship and morality.

There is a culture in some circles to junk tradition, respect, the authority of the bible, honouring one another and ones contributions. Now anyone who puts forward a point the listing any morality is wrong is literally not worth debating with because that is completely grace with no behaviour restrictions.

On your response, I asked for clarification of what you stood for and you actually did not give it, and then attempted to mock my suggestion you are more interested in being combative than constructive.

But as you failed to be open and make your point and then paint me as the agressor, that is your style.
It is not without reason many do not like how you approach things. Do you think this honours the Lord, or are you just putting people in their place?

You have testified as to betrayal by friends, so maybe you have a track record which you are not honest with yourself about. A weapon without a cause.

 

[Brother_Don]

E.G manipulation doesn't work with me. just-me started this thread to share, and it has gotten bombarded with false accusations, twisting things to say something that wasn't even said, and so on. don't even act like you are the forum police, and you can keep derailing, with self righteousness.

 

[KennethC]

well this is the tricky part then, isn't it!

if you believe everyone else is wrong (generic you...as in an anyone you) then others are all factions...

personally, I am open to correction as I have learned that we can only absorb so much no matter how right we think ourselves

that would not mean every single thing I believe either, because, of course, certain things such as salvation are basic to Christianity

I do not believe everybody else is wrong for I know of a number of believers who follow the same way as I do, as well do I know a number of biblical scholars I have read from that have tried for years to wake people up out of ism's and doctrines of men to come back to the pure Word of God.

I face a lot of heat on here for teaching in the same manner as the Apostle Paul did, and using that guidance of the Holy Spirit to call out the false teachings to bring them to light.

I am still ever learning through His guidance as we all are, but we are still shown in scripture that some mature faster in the faith then others and in that maturity we are to show the truth in the Word to others who have not yet been revealed that.

Thanks be to the Holy Spirit the Word of God comes easy to me in study and it all coincides and flows easily by His guidance. This is why it surprises me how some try to make it more difficult then what it really is !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

E.G manipulation doesn't work with me. just-me started this thread to share, and it has gotten bombarded with false accusations, twisting things to say something that wasn't even said, and so on. don't even act like you are the forum police, and you can keep derailing, with self righteousness.

Who is trying to manipulate?

It does not matter who starts a thread, if a thread is started on any false pretense Then everyone in the chat room should try to correct the false pretense (yes even if it is me)

This thread is wrong on so many levels.

1. It ignores that people understood Mecy, Judgment and faith before the law was given. When Just-me was questioned about this, by myself and quite a few other people. she ignore the question.
2. It takes out of context of what Jesus said, yet again, When just me was questioned as to why would Jesus tell everyone if they just followed these three areas of the law they would be saved, or righteous or at the most part. would have definitely come to Christ if they did this, Again, Just me did not answer.

These are valid questions, that do not take away from the thread, but instead would get the thread on the right track. (we could actually discuss what is true faith, mercy and judgment) but we can not do that, Because Just-me does not want to discuss things, he wants to do nothing but force his belief on others. and demands people not even question him (he places himself above others)

Not even I do that!

 

[just-me]

I went back and read this and had to respond, because here you are jumping into the middle of on going tactic's that have been carried over from other threads.

Just-me has his reasons for pretty much ignoring Ben that have risen from past discussions that is not simply from just a disagreement with scripture.

Same with me with the usage of get behind me satan, because that was stated toward one individual I have given more than one chance to have friendly respectable debates with, but instead they continued to be unedifying and passing false allegations at me. And even though I have them on ignore and they well know this they still try to attack my character and belief in front of others instead of speaking on the topic at hand.

What fruit of the Spirit is there in doing that ???? NONE !!!

Plus remember Jesus said the same thing to Peter.................

The Pharisees didn't seem to recognize this truth of "judgment" either, but only by their own ordinances and not God's.

If a personal problem is predominant, as obviously shown by the stalkers, the PM is a very good thing for that is the process that Jesus said for us to use. Controversy with individuals should never begin out in the open. Only when there is no reconciliation is it to be revealed. But in the forum there are no elders to make a righteous judgment. Therefore PMing is the only alternative that is right. If there is no agreement, then it should never be discussed openly. Vengeful attacks in the open are a trespass whether warranted or not.

Matthew 18:15-20
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[PeterJens]

Your Still doing it. You got rid of a few sacraments, that's all. Your basically following the same lie.

I am interested. Are you one of those who believe there is a spirit of religion? You use the work lie very widely, which is very dangerous. One thing this world is not good on is commitment and following rules. Large parts of the "church" have gone down this road, and you are talking like one of them. There is very good reasons for the denominations and their differences, though some might be very personality orientated, yet today people are completely unaware of why and how these came about, and just junking it all out of ignorance is far worse.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not believe everybody else is wrong for I know of a number of believers who follow the same way as I do, as well do I know a number of biblical scholars I have read from that have tried for years to wake people up out of ism's and doctrines of men to come back to the pure Word of God.

I face a lot of heat on here for teaching in the same manner as the Apostle Paul did, and using that guidance of the Holy Spirit to call out the false teachings to bring them to light.

I am still ever learning through His guidance as we all are, but we are still shown in scripture that some mature faster in the faith then others and in that maturity we are to show the truth in the Word to others who have not yet been revealed that.

Thanks be to the Holy Spirit the Word of God comes easy to me in study and it all coincides and flows easily by His guidance. This is why it surprises me how some try to make it more difficult then what it really is !!!

Cough Cough.. Ahem..

No pride here.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am interested. Are you one of those who believe there is a spirit of religion? You use the work lie very widely, which is very dangerous. One thing this world is not good on is commitment and following rules. Large parts of the "church" have gone down this road, and you are talking like one of them. There is very good reasons for the denominations and their differences, though some might be very personality orientated, yet today people are completely unaware of why and how these came about, and just junking it all out of ignorance is far worse.

Are you perfect?

 

[KennethC]

hmmm...I do not personally believe we are to go it alone with only the Holy Spirit

My understanding, is that counsel is advised and teachers are a gift from God through His Spirit

I sure do wish I had listened to folks who tried to tell me certain things

We are to search the scriptures...but even Paul went to the Apostles to have them examine what he had been shown

I never said we go at it alone, but we do not do anything unless God by His Holy Spirit directs us there first.

For we are always to put Him first in everything we do !!!

I only go to others and sources if He leads me to go to them, and He has lead me to a number of people and writings for my studies to go by.