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CCC...? Are you meaning the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
Oh, boy... *snort* which version?
Oh, boy... *snort* which version?
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
CHAPTER TWO
I BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, THE ONLY SON OF GOD
ARTICLE 3
"HE WAS CONCEIVED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY"
Paragraph 2. "Conceived by the Power of the Holy Spirit and Born of the Virgin Mary"
I. CONCEIVED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. . .
484 The Annunciation to Mary inaugurates "the fullness of time",[SUP]119[/SUP] the time of the fulfillment of God's promises and preparations. Mary was invited to conceive him in whom the "whole fullness of deity" would dwell "bodily".[SUP]120[/SUP] The divine response to her question, "How can this be, since I know not man?", was given by the power of the Spirit: "The Holy Spirit will come upon you."[SUP]121[/SUP]
485 The mission of the Holy Spirit is always conjoined and ordered to that of the Son.[SUP]122[/SUP] The Holy Spirit, "the Lord, the giver of Life", is sent to sanctify the womb of the Virgin Mary and divinely fecundate it, causing her to conceive the eternal Son of the Father in a humanity drawn from her own.
486 The Father's only Son, conceived as man in the womb of the Virgin Mary, is "Christ", that is to say, anointed by the Holy Spirit, from the beginning of his human existence, though the manifestation of this fact takes place only progressively: to the shepherds, to the magi, to John the Baptist, to the disciples.[SUP]123[/SUP] Thus the whole life of Jesus Christ will make manifest "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power."[SUP]124[/SUP]
II. . . .BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY
487 What the Catholic faith believes about Mary is based on what it believes about Christ, and what it teaches about Mary illumines in turn its faith in Christ.
Mary's predestination
488 "God sent forth his Son", but to prepare a body for him,[SUP]125[/SUP] he wanted the free co-operation of a creature. For this, from all eternity God chose for the mother of his Son a daughter of Israel, a young Jewish woman of Nazareth in Galilee, "a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary":[SUP]126[/SUP]
The Father of mercies willed that the Incarnation should be preceded by assent on the part of the predestined mother, so that just as a woman had a share in the coming of death, so also should a woman contribute to the coming of life.[SUP]127[/SUP]
489 Throughout the Old Covenant the mission of many holy women prepared for that of Mary. At the very beginning there was Eve; despite her disobedience, she receives the promise of a posterity that will be victorious over the evil one, as well as the promise that she will be the mother of all the living.[SUP]128[/SUP] By virtue of this promise, Sarah conceives a son in spite of her old age.[SUP]129[/SUP] Against all human expectation God chooses those who were considered powerless and weak to show forth his faithfulness to his promises: Hannah, the mother of Samuel; Deborah; Ruth; Judith and Esther; and many other women.[SUP]130[/SUP] Mary "stands out among the poor and humble of the Lord, who confidently hope for and receive salvation from him. After a long period of waiting the times are fulfilled in her, the exalted Daughter of Sion, and the new plan of salvation is established."[SUP]131[/SUP]
The Immaculate Conception
490 To become the mother of the Savior, Mary "was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role."[SUP]132[/SUP] The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as "full of grace".[SUP]133[/SUP] In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God's grace.
491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God,[SUP]134[/SUP] was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:
The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.[SUP]135[/SUP]
492 The "splendor of an entirely unique holiness" by which Mary is "enriched from the first instant of her conception" comes wholly from Christ: she is "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son".[SUP]136[/SUP] The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person "in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places" and chose her "in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love".[SUP]137[/SUP]
493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God "the All-Holy" (Panagia), and celebrate her as "free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature".[SUP]138[/SUP] By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.
I
Wow... someone likes to copy and paste, huh?
I am quite familiar with the dogma, I was trying to make a lighthearted joke, as there have been many versions of the Catechism written since Pius put quill to paper and scratched out the Ineffabilis Deus.
Here's the thing though, not all Catholics are comfortable with doctrines that do not come from Scripture, as was the case with the Ineffabilis Deus, where Pius IX declared Mary was sinless from birth.
I tried and was ridiculed when I explained the reasoning behind why Mary was born without original sin --- the Jewish Faith does not believe in it, so obviously Mary, a Jew, wouldn't have what she did not believe in.
Christians insist that any major doctrine must be clearly backed up by some Scripture. SURPRISE!! A lot of Catholics require the same. As the*Catholic Encyclopedia*admits on the subject of Mary: "No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture."
If people would just ask, and not believe conjecture and rumour and love each other as He has commanded, this world would be a lot more peaceful.
I am quite familiar with the dogma, I was trying to make a lighthearted joke, as there have been many versions of the Catechism written since Pius put quill to paper and scratched out the Ineffabilis Deus.
Here's the thing though, not all Catholics are comfortable with doctrines that do not come from Scripture, as was the case with the Ineffabilis Deus, where Pius IX declared Mary was sinless from birth.
I tried and was ridiculed when I explained the reasoning behind why Mary was born without original sin --- the Jewish Faith does not believe in it, so obviously Mary, a Jew, wouldn't have what she did not believe in.
Christians insist that any major doctrine must be clearly backed up by some Scripture. SURPRISE!! A lot of Catholics require the same. As the*Catholic Encyclopedia*admits on the subject of Mary: "No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture."
If people would just ask, and not believe conjecture and rumour and love each other as He has commanded, this world would be a lot more peaceful.
It is from Vatican web.
Is some catholic not comfortable with Vatican?
www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a3p2.htm
If you not comfortable with ccc why stay as catholic?
A lot of her teaching are not from the bible.
For example.ccc 460
460 The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature":[SUP]78[/SUP] "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."[SUP]79[/SUP] "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."[SUP]80[/SUP] "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."[SUP]81[/SUP]
II. THE INCARNATION
do you believe because Jesus become a man make you might become God?
Are you God ?
Is every catholic God?
Why don't they create another heaven and earth to prove that ccc 460 is the truth? Otherwise, this teaching is lie.
Is some catholic not comfortable with Vatican?
www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a3p2.htm
If you not comfortable with ccc why stay as catholic?
A lot of her teaching are not from the bible.
For example.ccc 460
460 The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature":[SUP]78[/SUP] "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."[SUP]79[/SUP] "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."[SUP]80[/SUP] "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."[SUP]81[/SUP]
II. THE INCARNATION
do you believe because Jesus become a man make you might become God?
Are you God ?
Is every catholic God?
Why don't they create another heaven and earth to prove that ccc 460 is the truth? Otherwise, this teaching is lie.
I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic church but I never once heard a clear presentation of the gospel while attending the Roman Catholic church. Salvation, in Roman Catholicism, is a process with many steps: Faith, water baptism, good works, participation in the sacraments, penance, obeying the commandments etc.. Basically, salvation is attained through water baptism and good works. It was not until I diligently searched the Scriptures with an open heart, calling on the name of the Lord to save me, did I finally receive salvation by grace through faith and it was not by works. I received Christ through faith IN SPITE of what the Roman Catholic church taught about the plan of salvation and NOT BECAUSE of what they taught.
It's not proper to say that EVERYONE who attends the Roman Catholic church is lost or that ONLY people who attend a certain church are saved. However, there are certain churches that teach false gospels, which will lead all of those to their doom, who strictly follow the teachings of their church. But those who truly believe the gospel of grace, and not just whatever their church teaches, are saved regardless of the group with which they are associated. Conversely, one's church may preach the true gospel of grace. If one believes the gospel, then one has eternal salvation. But if one does not believe it, then one is lost even though the official teaching of one's church is correct.
I correctly learned about the Trinity while growing up in the Roman Catholic church, but I did not learn about the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). I did learn about transubstantiation, confession of sins to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, praying the rosary, praying to Mary, the 7 sacraments including infant baptism (and other unbiblical practices) along with salvation by works. I'll never forget the day that I told my mother how I finally placed my faith in Christ for salvation and was now saved (she to this day is a devout Roman Catholic). I quoted Ephesians 2:8,9 and told her that we are saved by grace through faith, not works. She replied, "well I know that." At first I was very excited thinking that she really understood, but after we broke down those two verses together, she interpreted like this - saved by grace through faith "infused with good works" just not works of the law. When it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot separate good works from the law, so that equation does not work. What she was really saying is that we are saved through faith + "these" works, just not "those" works. That still equates to "salvation by works" no matter how much she tried to sugar coat it.
It's not proper to say that EVERYONE who attends the Roman Catholic church is lost or that ONLY people who attend a certain church are saved. However, there are certain churches that teach false gospels, which will lead all of those to their doom, who strictly follow the teachings of their church. But those who truly believe the gospel of grace, and not just whatever their church teaches, are saved regardless of the group with which they are associated. Conversely, one's church may preach the true gospel of grace. If one believes the gospel, then one has eternal salvation. But if one does not believe it, then one is lost even though the official teaching of one's church is correct.
I correctly learned about the Trinity while growing up in the Roman Catholic church, but I did not learn about the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). I did learn about transubstantiation, confession of sins to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, praying the rosary, praying to Mary, the 7 sacraments including infant baptism (and other unbiblical practices) along with salvation by works. I'll never forget the day that I told my mother how I finally placed my faith in Christ for salvation and was now saved (she to this day is a devout Roman Catholic). I quoted Ephesians 2:8,9 and told her that we are saved by grace through faith, not works. She replied, "well I know that." At first I was very excited thinking that she really understood, but after we broke down those two verses together, she interpreted like this - saved by grace through faith "infused with good works" just not works of the law. When it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot separate good works from the law, so that equation does not work. What she was really saying is that we are saved through faith + "these" works, just not "those" works. That still equates to "salvation by works" no matter how much she tried to sugar coat it.
The Catholic Church today has walked away from the Truth from God to Worship and Serve Mary as their God.
Why else does the Catholics teach Mary was born without sin?
They also teach Mary is our Mediator by which they go through Mary to reach Christ Jesus to reach God.
1 Timothy 2:4-5
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Most Catholics will never enter into Heaven.
Why else does the Catholics teach Mary was born without sin?
They also teach Mary is our Mediator by which they go through Mary to reach Christ Jesus to reach God.
1 Timothy 2:4-5
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Most Catholics will never enter into Heaven.
I
Oh, yes, babies were baptized in the New Testament.*Those who deny infant baptism often claim there are no examples of babies being baptized in the Bible.*That claim is not completely accurate.*It is clear the apostles were baptizing entire households (1 Cor. 1:16 – Paul said,*“I also baptized the*household of Stephanas.”*Acts 16:15 Lydia and her household were baptized).*Entire households include all members of that household from the very young to the very old.*The Bible shows that apostolic baptism did not discriminate in regards to age.
Not every household has babies in it. There are many households that have older children but no babies. Can a baby repent and believe the gospel? Then what is the point of baptizing an infant who isn't even old enough to understand what it means to repent and believe the gospel? Has your two and half year old granddaughter been water baptized?
Just for Catholics
ANSWERS | HOME
Infant Baptism
Question: In the Bible we read that entire households were baptized at once. It is likely that there were infants in these households. Is this, therefore, good evidence for infant baptism?
Answer: There are five instances of household baptisms recorded in the Bible (see Appendix 1). None of them demonstrate infant baptism; at best they show the possibility thereof. It is possible that one or more of those households included infants, but it is also possible that they did not - we are not told. So it is presumptuous and speculative to positively infer infant baptism since these scriptures are silent on this matter.
Moreover, there is good evidence that the members of four of these families were all mature individuals, or at least that all those who were baptized had believed the Gospel message, as in the case of Cornelius household. Paul and Silas preached the Gospel to the jailer and “all who were in his house” - suggesting that all members were capable of understanding. Afterwards “he and all his family” were baptized, and “he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.” The “all” who were baptized included no infants because “all” believed in God. In the case of the household of Stephanas, Paul tells us that “they have devoted themselves to the ministry of the saints” and in the case of Crispus, it is explicitly stated that he “believed on the Lord with all his house.”
The household baptisms are at best a weak and inconclusive argument for infant baptism. Household baptism is appropriate when there is household conversion to Christ.
The main reasons why many Christians practice “believers’ baptism” are as follows:
Christ commanded that “disciples” and those who “believe” should be baptized (Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:15, 16).
All recorded baptisms in the Bible follow personal conversion to Christ as evidenced by such words as believe, repent and calling on His name. (Acts 2:38; Acts 2:41; Acts 8:12,13; Acts 8:36, 37; Acts 10:47,48; Acts 16:14,15; Acts 16:32-34; Acts 18:8; Acts 19:4,5; Acts 22:16). (See Appendix 2)
The apostles link the significance of baptism in salvation to personal faith and an appeal to God for a good conscience. Clearly infants are incapable of such personal response to God. (See Colossians 2:11, 12; 1 Peter 3:21).
The Old Testament sign of circumcision is replaced by the New Testament sign of baptism. A change in the sign was required because of a change in the covenant. God’s people in the Old Covenant were Abraham’s physical descendants and this was signified by the circumcision of male infants soon after birth (Genesis 17:7-13). God’s New Covenant people, the church, are made up of Abraham’s spiritual children, the believers. “Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are the sons of Abraham” (Galatians 3:7). Since baptism denotes the union of the believer with Christ, it is inappropriate to apply this sign to infants who are not “of faith.”
The Christian parents’ responsibility is to bring up their children in the training and admonition of the Lord (Ephesians 6:4). Children should be baptized only when they profess faith in Christ.
Who knows how many lost unbelievers consider themselves Christians simply because they were baptized in infancy? Having the external sign does not necessarily mean that you have what baptism signifies.
ANSWERS | HOME
Infant Baptism
Question: In the Bible we read that entire households were baptized at once. It is likely that there were infants in these households. Is this, therefore, good evidence for infant baptism?
Answer: There are five instances of household baptisms recorded in the Bible (see Appendix 1). None of them demonstrate infant baptism; at best they show the possibility thereof. It is possible that one or more of those households included infants, but it is also possible that they did not - we are not told. So it is presumptuous and speculative to positively infer infant baptism since these scriptures are silent on this matter.
Moreover, there is good evidence that the members of four of these families were all mature individuals, or at least that all those who were baptized had believed the Gospel message, as in the case of Cornelius household. Paul and Silas preached the Gospel to the jailer and “all who were in his house” - suggesting that all members were capable of understanding. Afterwards “he and all his family” were baptized, and “he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.” The “all” who were baptized included no infants because “all” believed in God. In the case of the household of Stephanas, Paul tells us that “they have devoted themselves to the ministry of the saints” and in the case of Crispus, it is explicitly stated that he “believed on the Lord with all his house.”
The household baptisms are at best a weak and inconclusive argument for infant baptism. Household baptism is appropriate when there is household conversion to Christ.
The main reasons why many Christians practice “believers’ baptism” are as follows:
Christ commanded that “disciples” and those who “believe” should be baptized (Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:15, 16).
All recorded baptisms in the Bible follow personal conversion to Christ as evidenced by such words as believe, repent and calling on His name. (Acts 2:38; Acts 2:41; Acts 8:12,13; Acts 8:36, 37; Acts 10:47,48; Acts 16:14,15; Acts 16:32-34; Acts 18:8; Acts 19:4,5; Acts 22:16). (See Appendix 2)
The apostles link the significance of baptism in salvation to personal faith and an appeal to God for a good conscience. Clearly infants are incapable of such personal response to God. (See Colossians 2:11, 12; 1 Peter 3:21).
The Old Testament sign of circumcision is replaced by the New Testament sign of baptism. A change in the sign was required because of a change in the covenant. God’s people in the Old Covenant were Abraham’s physical descendants and this was signified by the circumcision of male infants soon after birth (Genesis 17:7-13). God’s New Covenant people, the church, are made up of Abraham’s spiritual children, the believers. “Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are the sons of Abraham” (Galatians 3:7). Since baptism denotes the union of the believer with Christ, it is inappropriate to apply this sign to infants who are not “of faith.”
The Christian parents’ responsibility is to bring up their children in the training and admonition of the Lord (Ephesians 6:4). Children should be baptized only when they profess faith in Christ.
Who knows how many lost unbelievers consider themselves Christians simply because they were baptized in infancy? Having the external sign does not necessarily mean that you have what baptism signifies.
I'm not sure why this is addressed to "Catholics" (by which, I'm going to presume you mean Roman Catholics), since the vast majority of Christendom baptizes infants.
Denominations that baptize infants include:
Roman Catholics
Orthodox Catholics
Anglicans
Episcopalians
Lutherans
Presbyterians
Methodists
some Nazarenes
the United Church of Christ
Moravians
Wesleyans
and some Reformed Churches
Denominations that baptize infants include:
Roman Catholics
Orthodox Catholics
Anglicans
Episcopalians
Lutherans
Presbyterians
Methodists
some Nazarenes
the United Church of Christ
Moravians
Wesleyans
and some Reformed Churches
Very weak argument but water baptism does not save or wash away sin.
See in Acts where Philip baptized the eunuch and the requirement was do you believe before water baptism. Salvation was before baptism through belief in what the word of God proclaimed about Jesus.
Ac 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
It is all meaningless until you have the correct soteriology.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
See in Acts where Philip baptized the eunuch and the requirement was do you believe before water baptism. Salvation was before baptism through belief in what the word of God proclaimed about Jesus.
Ac 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
It is all meaningless until you have the correct soteriology.
For the cause of Christ
Roger