Three major things the legalistic Pharisees didn't recognize.

[PeterJens]

so your perfect.

Why thankyou. I am not sure I know what being perfect is or when I have arrived. I know my goal, to be like Jesus.
I was hoping you would be able to say, yes that is my goal also.

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Eph 2:10

I have not fulfilled the law, I am a sinner walking in grace, imputed as being righteous. Any righteousness I do attain to is filthy rags in comparison to Jesus and His love. But daily I am being transformed.

I feel like I am speaking to a person of another faith, who projects their own ideas onto my words but are actually different.

Your phrase "I have liberty to make mistakes"

Is this "I have liberty to sin?" Now I can make spelling mistakes, not sin, I can use the wrong words, trip and fall, etc. but not sin.
I think in your language is you can prophecy not from the Lord, in the Lords name and it is not sin. No, that is wrong.

It is the concept that evil is not really the problem, so going into spiritual ideas of the occult, of speaking to the dead, out of body experiences, holding up optimistic dreams as if they are real is not deception. No these are evil things.
This is heresy. It is doomed to destruction, and if you agree with this approach, so are you. Which spirit told you this is what holiness leads to, or purity or reality?

Or have I got you wrong. You are not part of this group, you only put forward their theology and ideas.
When will Gods judgement fall on such a group? When the fruit of their ways has come to it full bloom, so not yet.

 

[Least]

Good morning all !!!

Well I read through and see the thread is still derailed because people want to debate instead of discuss the OP.

The newest I see is the debating on Acts 15 and how this chapter has been completely misunderstood and the subject in it twisted to say something it doesn't. For this chapter has nothing to do with unbelievers !!!

You have the believing Jewish Apostles/disciples discussing on if the newly converted Gentile believers should have to follow the written ordinances of the Mosaic law.

The out come was no that there was only 4 things we should keep following, and in verse Acts 15:28 it shows the Holy Spirit approved of this.

Indeed! I saw that too. Not only does Acts 15 show this to be true, but it is confirmed in other places in scriptures.

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Paul was no compromiser, he warned so much about false doctrine, and he would never have commanded believers to do something that he believed was untrue for the sake of appeasing others.

The same commands are listed in Rev ch. 2.( Just-us_two shared a very indepth study on this just a few weeks ago.)

And here:

1 Thessalonians 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Colossians 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

There's so much in the scriptures on this subject.

 

[KennethC]

Indeed! I saw that too. Not only does Acts 15 show this to be true, but it is confirmed in other places in scriptures.

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Paul was no compromiser, he warned so much about false doctrine, and he would never have commanded believers to do something that he believed was untrue for the sake of appeasing others.

The same commands are listed in Rev ch. 2.( Just-us_two shared a very indepth study on this just a few weeks ago.)

And here:

1 Thessalonians 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Colossians 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

There's so much in the scriptures on this subject.

Yes Apostle Paul shows multiple times the works of the flesh that he says we can not walk by, and the fruit of the Spirit that we are to walk by.

He says and shows one way still leads to condemnation (flesh, carnal, sinful) and the other leads to eternal life (walking by the Spirit).

 

[ukok102nak]

Just one question
Is there a written scripture about those Pharisees teaching this word
Which was written from the old testament in accordance to
the moisaic law itself?

Deuteronomy: 10. 17. Because the Lord your God he is the God of gods, and the Lord of lords, a great God and mighty and terrible, a who accepteth no person nor taketh bribes.
18. He doth judgment to the fatherless and the widow, loveth the stranger, and giveth him food and raiment.

we just want to share a little information to all of you my brothers and my sisters

:sisid: thank you very much

 

[just-me]

Just one question
Is there a written scripture about those Pharisees teaching this word
Which was written from the old testament in accordance to
the moisaic law itself?

Deuteronomy: 10. 17. Because the Lord your God he is the God of gods, and the Lord of lords, a great God and mighty and terrible, a who accepteth no person nor taketh bribes.
18. He doth judgment to the fatherless and the widow, loveth the stranger, and giveth him food and raiment.

we just want to share a little information to all of you my brothers and my sisters

:sisid: thank you very much

Thanks for your input!!

The Pharisees omitted this true judgment also.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Matthew 23:14

 

[ember]

Good grief! I was not being rude... I was asking a question because I DID NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT! I usually do, so that particular post seemed ODD to me. Your response to my question that I have been somehow intending to be picking a fight is also a MISTAKE on your part regarding discernment... so thanks for the empathy about my headache... I am feeling better now... however... regarding your conduct/response... It seems like maybe YOU need to take a powder? Or a walk... or spend some time praying in the spirit or something... cuz this is not characteristic of the Ember I am accustomed to encountering.

you asked a leading question

you got a leading answer

the ember you know sometimes gets fed up, so I apologize...

but I never said you were rude...I said, if you care to look closer, that you might construe my answer as rude

 

[PeterJens]

In other words, let's subjugate the revealed will of GOD in the NT to the law of the old covenant. No thanks.

I do not think anyone is claiming this. What people are saying is things like adultery, it is sin. Lusting after people sexually is sin. Stealing is sin, etc.

A important part of walking with the Lord is victory over sin. If there is no victory, then there is only judgement and failure.
The reason or driver for sin is hopelessness, a world without love or focus. The biggest driver is selfish gain, building power and success on earth. The dilemma is this is also part of normal growing up and having a family, meeting needs.

But one can participate in this world in righteousness, with good works, showing the love and hope planted in our hearts, the power of God to salvation.

Part of the christian church has now turned this into being a pharisee and legalism. Why? Because too many do not have the power of love working within, and just the form of religion with sinful failure, so it is better to abandon morality.

So preaching on righteous, sin and repentance disappears, literally. It is selfish dreams, success and spiritual power through creative miracles, becoming children of God, bringing the eternal authority to earth as rightful heirs to live in rich houses and dominate the world. The goal of purity and holiness has disappeared completely and another faith appeared.

Am I wrong, please tell me, but this is how it appears.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Word of God contains judgment, mercy, and faith revealed in the law, which is a substantial part of the Word. Jesus said so. Jesus is the complete Word. Why do some people demand to accept a fraction of the Word into their lives?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Poor Adam, Noah ad Abraham, They could not now mercy judgment or faith because the law was not yet given.

You misrepresent Gods word..

Yes it was revealed in the law. But we did not have to have the law to understand it.

The way it was revealed by the law was by Gods mercy.. and those who could not obey the law (which would be every one of is) And to lead us to faith. (in the one who would fulfill the law completely) But it was KNOWN by men LONG before the law was even given.

 

[just-me]

I do not think anyone is claiming this. What people are saying is things like adultery, it is sin. Lusting after people sexually is sin. Stealing is sin, etc.

A important part of walking with the Lord is victory over sin. If there is no victory, then there is only judgement and failure.
The reason or driver for sin is hopelessness, a world without love or focus. The biggest driver is selfish gain, building power and success on earth. The dilemma is this is also part of normal growing up and having a family, meeting needs.

But one can participate in this world in righteousness, with good works, showing the love and hope planted in our hearts, the power of God to salvation.

Part of the christian church has now turned this into being a pharisee and legalism. Why? Because too many do not have the power of love working within, and just the form of religion with sinful failure, so it is better to abandon morality.

So preaching on righteous, sin and repentance disappears, literally. It is selfish dreams, success and spiritual power through creative miracles, becoming children of God, bringing the eternal authority to earth as rightful heirs to live in rich houses and dominate the world. The goal of purity and holiness has disappeared completely and another faith appeared.

Am I wrong, please tell me, but this is how it appears.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the condition of the world. Where did it start? Apathy concerning saved by grace? Probably not started there, but it has been enhanced there to a degree, simply by this apathy propagated by rejection of the same things the hypocritical Pharisees omitted.

1 Peter 4:17

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel ofGod?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All of the word of God helps us to grow in God's grace through Christ Jesus. Acting out love doesn't save us either, but that's the fulfilling of the law. Put all of the word of God together as He intends us to do. If we are saved by grace, nothing that we do can bring salvation. Only Christ. Let us all judge righteously and accept all of God's word into out lives because of salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:31

I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Sadly, You did not get the memo that the law only brings you to Christ, You evidently still need led to Christ.

I feel sorry for you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Their loss if they don't want the Word , the Word says what it says and means it.

Yes it does.

But we did not need the word to show them, they already know it in their hearts (romans 1) and they have the law written, which gives them no excuse (see galations)

The rest of us, we act in love, and it convicts them..

thats why Jesus convicted so many and got them to see him as a light, Not because he obeyed some law But because HE LOVED THE WORLD.

Jesus showed us how to be good. Sadly people want to do what the jews did, and not what Christ did.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We was in their shoes once so , we show them mercy, as Jesus did us, and as Jesus had compassion forgive them Father they don't know what they are doing. But then we need to share how to walk justly, and humbly with God. When we walk humbly with God we show them mercy, but if we don't show how to live justly we are only sharing half truth.

you will not show ANYONE how to walk by pointing them to the law.

You will point them to walk by pointing them to Christ, who will love them, and empower them to love and show mercy to others. this will empower them to walk.

 

[KennethC]

I will not go into detail on how some of these are now observed, but here is a quick list of the 10 Commandments still upheld in the new covenant:


First
Commandment

Matthew 4:10; Luke 4:8; Revelation 14:7


Second
Commandment

Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-20; Ephesians 5:5


Third
Commandment

Matthew 5:33-37; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7


Fourth
Commandment

Luke 4:16; 23:55-56; Acts 17:1-2; 18:4; Hebrews 4:9; 1 John 2:6


Fifth
Commandment

Matthew 15:4-9; 19:19; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29-30; Ephesians 6:1-3


Sixth
Commandment

Matthew 5:21-22; 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29-30; 13:9


Seventh
Commandment

Matthew 5:27-28; 19:18; Mark 10:11-12, 19; Luke 16:18; 18:20; Romans 7:2-3; 13:9


Eighth
Commandment

Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:28; 1 Peter 4:15; Revelation 9:21


Ninth
Commandment

Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Acts 5:3-4; Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:25


10th
Commandment

Luke 12:15; Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Every bit of that is fulfilled by love and faith. Do those two commandments and you are well pleasing to GOD.

I will not go into detail on how some of these are now observed, but here is a quick list of the 10 Commandments still upheld in the new covenant:


First
Commandment

Matthew 4:10; Luke 4:8; Revelation 14:7


Second
Commandment

Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-20; Ephesians 5:5


Third
Commandment

Matthew 5:33-37; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7


Fourth
Commandment

Luke 4:16; 23:55-56; Acts 17:1-2; 18:4; Hebrews 4:9; 1 John 2:6


Fifth
Commandment

Matthew 15:4-9; 19:19; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29-30; Ephesians 6:1-3


Sixth
Commandment

Matthew 5:21-22; 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29-30; 13:9


Seventh
Commandment

Matthew 5:27-28; 19:18; Mark 10:11-12, 19; Luke 16:18; 18:20; Romans 7:2-3; 13:9


Eighth
Commandment

Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:28; 1 Peter 4:15; Revelation 9:21


Ninth
Commandment

Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Acts 5:3-4; Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:25


10th
Commandment

Luke 12:15; Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why thankyou. I am not sure I know what being perfect is or when I have arrived. I know my goal, to be like Jesus.
I was hoping you would be able to say, yes that is my goal also.

wanting to Be like jesus, and being PERFECT According to the law are two different things. If you do not understand this, You are worse off then I thought you were. because we can not be perfect according to the law until we get to heaven, and are given our bodies free from the flesh.

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Eph 2:10

Yep. And all of Gods people will do these works. Because God created them to do them, it is his power.

So why are you denyingg th epower of God to make a new creation that works?

I have not fulfilled the law, I am a sinner walking in grace, imputed as being righteous. Any righteousness I do attain to is filthy rags in comparison to Jesus and His love. But daily I am being transformed.

Oh hey, You mean we finally agree on something? Well how about that. this is me also.

I feel like I am speaking to a person of another faith, who projects their own ideas onto my words but are actually different.

Your phrase "I have liberty to make mistakes"

Is this "I have liberty to sin?" Now I can make spelling mistakes, not sin, I can use the wrong words, trip and fall, etc. but not sin.
I think in your language is you can prophecy not from the Lord, in the Lords name and it is not sin. No, that is wrong.

It is the concept that evil is not really the problem, so going into spiritual ideas of the occult, of speaking to the dead, out of body experiences, holding up optimistic dreams as if they are real is not deception. No these are evil things.
This is heresy. It is doomed to destruction, and if you agree with this approach, so are you. Which spirit told you this is what holiness leads to, or purity or reality?

Or have I got you wrong. You are not part of this group, you only put forward their theology and ideas.
When will Gods judgement fall on such a group? When the fruit of their ways has come to it full bloom, so not yet.

What is the definition of sin? is it not carnal thinking? is it not doing things (whatever that may be ) my way instead of Gods?

As a parent, do you not give your children freedom to make mistakes? and through these mistakes learn fro those mistakes.

Grace does not judge, It forgives. It allows people to learn to trust God by allowing them to make mistakes.

again, are you perfect? You said you were not. then you have one of two things.

1. Judgment, and need to be saved again
2. Mercy, and an ability to grow and not be condemned.

The choice is up to you.

 

[ukok102nak]

We cannot ignore everyone's belief
For their were many worshipings that were done
From different beliefs
Like the beliefs of our brothers/sisters who are
Muslims, buddhis, Hindus and many more :smoke:

Do we have to say that they were wrong from the very start since our believes were different from them?

That was the meaning of the
" even the mightiest nor the weakest has the right
To believed or not to believed " according to someone who told us this before . ...

There are times someone intended to sin
Not because they are not aware of what is good and
What is evil but becaused it is was made for them to carry the burden of the world
Like those soldiers who went to wars to depend their people and for the sake of their country ( remember the history )
The past world war would be an excellent example of this.

The law told us that
" you shall not kill "
could those soldiers be condemn by this law?

:yawn: "Whoever emerged as triumphant dictates the outcome of the future"
That is the law of realty believed or not :scarf:

Yes were speaking about the past generations of human misunderstanding that leads them to war :sigh:

Hope we learned from them
thank you so much

 

[just-me]

I will not go into detail on how some of these are now observed, but here is a quick list of the 10 Commandments still upheld in the new covenant:

Fourth
Commandment

Luke 4:16; 23:55-56; Acts 17:1-2; 18:4; Hebrews 4:9; 1 John 2:6

An even this one, which is another avenue of contention (simply because it is defined physically by many), involves the Biblical feasts defined in the law, which under the New Covenant are to be observed as spiritual. The Pharisees didn't see the spiritual side of this either, for these are things that show God's mercy, such as Passover, actually being the "day Christ died" and was buried.

 

[just-me]

We cannot ignore everyone's belief
For their were many worshipings that were done
From different beliefs
Like the beliefs of our brothers/sisters who are
Muslims, buddhis, Hindus and many more :smoke:

Do we have to say that they were wrong from the very start since our believes were different from them?

That was the meaning of the
" even the mightiest nor the weakest has the right
To believed or not to believed " according to someone who told us this before . ...

There are times someone intended to sin
Not because they are not aware of what is good and
What is evil but becaused it is was made for them to carry the burden of the world
Like those soldiers who went to wars to depend their people and for the sake of their country ( remember the history )
The past world war would be an excellent example of this.

The law told us that
" you shall not kill "
could those soldiers be condemn by this law?

:yawn: "Whoever emerged as triumphant dictates the outcome of the future"
That is the law of realty believed or not :scarf:

Yes were speaking about the past generations of human misunderstanding that leads them to war :sigh:

Hope we learned from them
thank you so much

Killing an intentional murderer is not against the law of God. It should still be upheld. Soldiers are not forced to murder, but they are trained to kill.

 

[KennethC]

Every bit of that is fulfilled by love and faith. Do those two commandments and you are well pleasing to GOD.

Yes but walking in faith and love for Jesus does not transgress these commands, they establish and uphold them !!!

In other words we can not say we have faith and love but continue to constantly and deliberately break these commandments.

 

[PeterJens]

you will not show ANYONE how to walk by pointing them to the law.

Your phrase "I have liberty to make mistakes"

Does this mean if you hate someone, you have the liberty to get a high powered rifle and murder them, not repent and you are still walking in fellowship with Jesus?

At what point does this liberty become rebellion and sin to be repented of?
If it is sin and wrong from the start you concept actually does not exist.

We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.
1 John 5:18

Is this the word of God, or have you got a free pass?

Now for the weaker among us and those with a sensitive spirit, sin is based on actions not feelings. It is not sin to get angry, that is a normal emotional response. It is a sin to murder someone for whatever reason, though anger may often be the excuse. Jesus took this back to say getting angry with a fellow believer is sin, which probably should make some us think more carefully how we react here. To condemn a fellow believer as a fool is liable to loosing your salvation. Matt 5:22

Now this does not sound like Jesus is giving us a clean sheet as some would suggest. So I am amazed at your words and how you justify how far you have strayed. Do the words of Jesus mean so little to you?