Three major things the legalistic Pharisees didn't recognize.

[ukok102nak]

What the :shock:
We ain't see that coming :rofl:
Ephesians: 3. 18. May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19. And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21. Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
~:» KJV «:~
Its happening again . ...

:blush: This are one of those many things that
we know and learned about love . ...
Luke: 18. 11. The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican.
12. I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess.
13. And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; but struck his breast, saying: O god, be merciful to me a sinner.
14. I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather that the other: because every one that exalteth himself, shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself, shall be exalted.
~» KJV version ~«
:ty:

Thank you very much my brethren and my fellow
And also to all the brothers and sisters
well be right bact with a few reminders ( not promotional advertisement )
those from beyond again . ... have to settle this again
Please bare with us

What the :shock:
We ain't see that coming :rofl:
Ephesians: 3. 18. May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19. And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21. Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
~:» KJV «:~
Its happening again . ...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The humble are justified, not the proud. Amen

so is Just-Me admiting he is not justified here or what?

All he talks about is how proud he is and how such a good law observing saint he is..

 

[KennethC]

Those verses don't say anything about doing anything for GOD (at least in the Greek), but doing whatever we do into GOD's glory, and as to GOD instead of men. "Doing things for GOD" is just works of self-righteousness based on a mental image of what GOD is. IMO, your language betrays your doctrine.

Read them again because they say whatever we do rather in word or deed, we do it for God.

God is to come first in all that we do, and if He doesn't then that is doing it for self as you are putting self and/or others before God which is wrong and sinful.

I didn't twist your words. The sabbath is a shadow. You advocate resting in a shadow of Christ. I don't ever hear you say to just rest in Christ.

You did twist my words and you are doing it again, as I never said Christ is a shadow.

The Sabbath day rest was the shadow......................Not the rest we have in Christ now !!!

 

[ukok102nak]

Those from beyond again . ... beyond the grave that is :rofl:
:now: hey :star: was not here and maybe . ... should look for him :yawn:
then ask him how he managed to do that
~:» THIS IS THE FEW REMINDERS WERE TALKING ABOUT «:~

Please don't mind us but keep up the goodwork always and have faith to
Our lord god the father almighty who is good and who doesn't lie and
let the grace and mercy of
Our lord god the only begotten son Jesus Christ who is our savior
When the time comes for us to meet him . ...
until then please guide us
that we may not be a part of the unholy sanctity . ...
but please help us with your set apart spirit known to all from
the holy ghost unto the holy spirit we believed in
be fruitful towards to all your humble servants amen selawah

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The Sabbath day rest was the shadow......................Not the rest we have in Christ now !!!

Then why rest on the sabbath, unless that's really what you want to do? Christ is outside of time and space and is present in all days. So his rest is always available.

 

[PeterJens]

in one breath, you say we love because God loves us

In another breath, you say we obey God by following rules and regulations. and if we do not live by some guideline, we are not saved, or I am afraid to say, you may fear we lose salvation.

You change my words into your words but they are not the same. I do not love God because he first loved me. I love God because I was made to love God, but I shut it all down because I was betrayed and hurt.

This is not self pity, it is survival. I become a victim of shutting down the love I have, so I sin. It is not the focus on self that fails it is the shutting down of love which I was born with towards my parents and ultimately the Lord.
Everything in life is based from our own personal perspective, because in one sense we are always living with self. But without love working, it becomes only for my benefit with no consideration of pain or consequences for others, because they do not matter.

Now the law has never mattered to me as a justification or a way of proving myself or a sense of failure. I knew I failed from the conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit, but I did not know how or where. The law helps to lay it all out, to point out where things have gone wrong. I learnt this in reverse, seeing where things have gone wrong and then finding the law addresses such issues.

Now I have not defined salvation other than in terms of the love relationship with Jesus. An indication this has gone wrong is when sin reigns over your life. An indication this is going right, when you do good things empowered by love and the Holy Spirit.

So I trust Jesus and His love everyday, and the law actually I do not think about regularly, but it does define sin very well.

So it is sad that you project I justify myself by my behaviour because this is not true, but you want it to be so.
For no one who believes and lives like you could be positive about righteousness. Well you are wrong.

Maybe you have hidden sin you have not confronted, because there must be something for you to keep projecting something that is not there onto me. What sin do you believe I have?

 

[KennethC]

Then why rest on the sabbath, unless that's really what you want to do? Christ is outside of time and space and is present in all days. So his rest is always available.

The Sabbath day rest is good for the body as Jesus said it was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

In other words it is beneficial to us to rest on that day as it is good for the body, but still rather one rests on that day or works to support their family is not sinning in the new covenant. It was put in place as a shadow of the rest that we will have in the new covenant through Christ.

Just like the animal sacrifices were a shadow of the one time sacrifice of the Lord, and just like the feast days are shadows of the things Christ fulfilled or will fulfill later on as 3 feast are yet to be fulfilled through Him.

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every dayalike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

[LieDetector]

It seems to me that mutual respect is a necessary ingredient for persuasion to occur.

The giving of mutual respect does NOT guarantee that someone will be convinced; but a lack of respect, by any participant in a discussion, will almost guarantee that little or nothing is resolved.

Now there is wisdom.
May the saints "hear" it with spiritual eyes & ears.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You change my words into your words but they are not the same. I do not love God because he first loved me. I love God because I was made to love God, but I shut it all down because I was betrayed and hurt.

Well if that is right, you were doubly wrong, and more wrong that I thought.

1 John 4:19
We love Him because He first loved us.

So either you believe what God said or you do not. I can not help you if you will not listen to God.

This is not self pity, it is survival. I become a victim of shutting down the love I have, so I sin. It is not the focus on self that fails it is the shutting down of love which I was born with towards my parents and ultimately the Lord.
Everything in life is based from our own personal perspective, because in one sense we are always living with self. But without love working, it becomes only for my benefit with no consideration of pain or consequences for others, because they do not matter.

I honestly can not even understand what you just said, It seems like your so bent on proving me wrong, you re making a mockery of what I said, and making a mockery of what it really means when we walk in the flesh in a moment of lapse because we have not trusted God at that moment of time.

Now the law has never mattered to me as a justification or a way of proving myself or a sense of failure. I knew I failed from the conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit, but I did not know how or where. The law helps to lay it all out, to point out where things have gone wrong. I learnt this in reverse, seeing where things have gone wrong and then finding the law addresses such issues.

So paul said it was not meant to do that, But you want to twist what Paul said to make it true.

I already proved the law could not do this. so this is not a debatable subject, all you want to do is argue.

Now I have not defined salvation other than in terms of the love relationship with Jesus. An indication this has gone wrong is when sin reigns over your life. An indication this is going right, when you do good things empowered by love and the Holy Spirit.

So I trust Jesus and His love everyday, and the law actually I do not think about regularly, but it does define sin very well.

No Actually it does not. This is where your logic is flawed.

I can be religious, I can seem to be morally right, and yet in Gods eyes have no moral standard at all. Because remember..It only takes 1 sin to be a breaker of the law. and 2. The law does not show us EVERY sin.

So if the law is your guide, Your bound to think you are more morally righteous than you actually are.

So it is sad that you project I justify myself by my behaviour because this is not true, but you want it to be so.
For no one who believes and lives like you could be positive about righteousness. Well you are wrong.

All I can do is go by what you teach.

And you do not know how I live, so your can not use the way I live to prove anything, any more than I can prove how you live because I do not know how you live,

Maybe you have hidden sin you have not confronted, because there must be something for you to keep projecting something that is not there onto me. What sin do you believe I have?

Now we go to attacks and strawmen.

That gets old dude, I never claimed to be sinless. Thus your argument is without merit and again I will ask you. Are you perfect? if no (and you already said you were not) then you have sin issues yourself. so how dare you try to judge me?

 

[ukok102nak]

With that kind of questions
You remind us of him :yinyan:
one of our breathrens :happy: and our fellows :flag:

:happy: No worries his still alive and kicking :smoke:
still medatating there :dontknow:

 

[just-me]

With that kind of questions
You remind us of him :yinyan:
one of our breathrens :happy: and our fellows :flag:

:happy: No worries his still alive and kicking :smoke:
still medatating there :dontknow:

Is "yinyan" opposites together?

 

[ukok102nak]

Is "yinyan" opposites together?

:smoke: according to their beliefs :yinyan:

And that guy were talking about
Actually that was his sign my brethren :happy:

 

[Angela53510]

Ok our theology is different. You put the cause of failure of mankind is because we focus on self.

My theology says we fail because we are alone, individuals who feel betrayed and shut love out from our hearts because of hurts. This creates spiritual blindness, so we literally do not see the hurts we create by our actions and are driven by our emotions and self justification so all our actions are ok even when sinful.

Without love and a care or concern for the other, nothing matters. Jesus breaks this denial of love, breaks in and undermines the hatred and bitterness we hold others in because he says you are not alone, you are loved and cared for, there is a real hope worthy of being vulnerable for. Jesus forgives our sins, and accepts us, so we can begin to open up, be healed of our hurts, accept we are no longer alone and walk in true fellowship with him.

Righteousness is therefore no longer a justification of who we are but the fruit of love breaking out from within, knowing we know the Father and He loves us.

In the world of darkness, the law is the only indicator of the level of failure society has. In the world of the Kingdom it is the banner of rejoicing of how far we have come.

But you would rather condemn the people of God, and not uplift righteousness as a goal, to which Jesus and the apostles called us.

Now I asked you about the level of freedom you claimed, liberty, but you did not answer.

I wonder what fellowship you actually have with the Lord, and what it means to you. I love Jesus and all he has brought me, because he has brought me life, freedom, integrity, honour, love, mercy and grace, and I owe Him everything, and I desire to serve Him is anyway he calls me to follow. Now this is me, but I get the impression you feel I do not know Jesus, which I find odd, because your Jesus must be from another town.

Actually, this is not Biblical theology. There is no where in the Bible that says Christ came to save us from being alone, betrayed, or shut out.

From Genesis 3:15 to Revelation, Jesus came to save us from our sin. Even his name means that!

"She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” Matt 1:21

"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Eph. 2:1-10

You need to start reading the Bible, Peter, then re-evaluate your humanistic approach to the gospel.

And I do agree that Jesus gives us everything, including the ability to love and give sacrificially. But the gospel is not about society, psychology or sociology.

It is about righteousness, and believing that Christ inaugurated a New Covenant, by his death and resurrection.

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4

"25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own,26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him." Hebrews 9:25-28

You really need to start reading the whole Bible, instead of just picking and choosing, and making up your "own theology!"

 

[BenFTW]

It has nearly been 24 hours since I privately messaged both just-me and his wife. Both of them have ignored the PM's, or they both may have me on ignore in which case, can someone relay this message to them (as they won't be able to see it from me)?

I think it would better suit all parties if you would take me off of ignore so that we can civilly and gently seek the truth on the matters you bring up. It seems to me you wish to preach, but if indeed you wish to seek the truth, take me off of ignore and lets find the truth.

We have this back and forth, and it isn't edifying. Your own wife is insulting me now, saying I am not of God. When will you realize that you have made a mistake in ignoring me at the cost of unity? You have seen the fruit of you putting those in opposition to your position on ignore. It isn't good. Why don't we try listening instead? Why don't you remove the people you have on ignore who keep posting on your threads and see if we can reach some form of edification, or maybe even revelation by God's grace?

This is me asking for transparency, lets not ignore one another. Lets seek and inquire to the truth and discuss these topics you keep bringing up.

Thank you to anyone who relays this message to them who is not on ignore, I appreciate it.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

From Ben to Mr and Mrs just-me . . . I know you probably don't or won't respond to this but remember we are to have forgiveness and love especially toward ones in the body of Christ. I have seen Ben practically BEG to have part in this discussion. . . . Do you not have it in your heart to have dialog with him regardless if the position he takes is opposing?

Originally Posted by BenFTW

It has nearly been 24 hours since I privately messaged both just-me and his wife. Both of them have ignored the PM's, or they both may have me on ignore in which case, can someone relay this message to them (as they won't be able to see it from me)?

Originally Posted by BenFTW
I think it would better suit all parties if you would take me off of ignore so that we can civilly and gently seek the truth on the matters you bring up. It seems to me you wish to preach, but if indeed you wish to seek the truth, take me off of ignore and lets find the truth.

We have this back and forth, and it isn't edifying. Your own wife is insulting me now, saying I am not of God. When will you realize that you have made a mistake in ignoring me at the cost of unity? You have seen the fruit of you putting those in opposition to your position on ignore. It isn't good. Why don't we try listening instead? Why don't you remove the people you have on ignore who keep posting on your threads and see if we can reach some form of edification, or maybe even revelation by God's grace?

This is me asking for transparency, lets not ignore one another. Lets seek and inquire to the truth and discuss these topics you keep bringing up.


Thank you to anyone who relays this message to them who is not on ignore, I appreciate it. I think it would better suit all parties if you would take me off of ignore so that we can civilly and gently seek the truth on the matters you bring up. It seems to me you wish to preach, but if indeed you wish to seek the truth, take me off of ignore and lets find the truth.

If you decide that you wish to discontinue dialog with him on this subject then at least let him know and let him know specifically why you want to end the discussion.

 

[just-me]

It has nearly been 24 hours since I privately messaged both just-me and his wife. Both of them have ignored the PM's, or they both may have me on ignore in which case, can someone relay this message to them (as they won't be able to see it from me)?



Thank you to anyone who relays this message to them who is not on ignore, I appreciate it.

According to what MarcR revealed to me yesterday, as of yesterday, I took you off my ignore list. It is obvious that there are private differences that I feel cannot be reconciled. Until I see some hope to reconcile, then my conclusion will not change. To speak openly about those differences that have previously and clearly been defined in a different thread without any hope of agreement other than your suggestion to "agree to disagree," we have never come close to agreeing on literally any point other than what we agreed about before we ever conversed with each other. This is clearly a private matter just between you and I. I do commend you in wanting to converse however. No one else has ever done that who knows I have them on ignore and for what I believe is good reason to somewhat stifle the contention that prohibits edification, not only for participants, but even more so the guests who vastly outnumber the members.

With that said, disagreements between individuals that seem to not be reconcilable can be discussed in PM. Then, if perchance any like mindedness can be achieved, this is when we can witness to others openly about the truth we mutually have come to learn, thereby prohibiting confusion to the onlooker, and people choosing sides, one against the other. Until then, I refuse to get stuck in the mire day after day in the open so others can witness disagreements within the ranks without any resolve.

I want to resolve, but I refuse to compromise any part of God's word as irrelevant or unnecessary to the believer in Christ. To me it's all or nothing. For that I'm labeled. That's fine. So was Christ for properly representing in total truth every jot and tittle in the law and the prophets.

 

[just-me]

From Ben to Mr and Mrs just-me . . . I know you probably don't or won't respond to this but remember we are to have forgiveness and love especially toward ones in the body of Christ. I have seen Ben practically BEG to have part in this discussion. . . . Do you not have it in your heart to have dialog with him regardless if the position he takes is opposing?


If you decide that you wish to discontinue dialog with him on this subject then at least let him know and let him know specifically why you want to end the discussion.

Did you PM me with this report? That's what should have been done first. As I said in my previous post, Ben has been off my ignore list since yesterday. MarcR gave me the nudge. So I waited and nothing came. Could have been that Ben Pmed me just prior to that.

 

[PeterJens]

Actually, this is not Biblical theology. There is no where in the Bible that says Christ came to save us from being alone, betrayed, or shut out.

You are right 100% and also 100% wrong. A child crosses a road. A man races down and pulls the child away from the on coming vehical. Now you could describe the event based on the emotional outlook and feelings of those involved and how it effected them before and after the event. Now each description would be true, but each different.
Some descriptions would show consequences others facts.

So Jesus came to show us love, to set us free, to tell us we are loved and known, 100%, every hair is counted. He forgives our sins, takes the punishment we were due etc. The consequences on the believer is we are loved, not alone, understood at a level no human understands us. Now understanding how we are inside, does not have to be written in the bible to be true, as it is further information than the pure details of scripture. Because it is not mentioned in scripture does not invalidate its truth, like much of our biology is not mentioned in scripture but it is still true.

Do you think all Jesus means to us is save us from our sins, as if this is a static thing? This is a start of a relationship, of sharing, of giving and receiving.

The problem I see with the viewpoint you are taking things as a single cold reading and not the vastness of life and the interwoven nature of the infinite implications of righteousness, holiness, joy, sadness, hurt, healing that will go on into eternity. Truth is not a singular take on anything. I am trying to grasp this and convey how this impacts us, because this is the power of walking in the Lord.

 

[BenFTW]

Did you PM me with this report? That's what should have been done first. As I said in my previous post, Ben has been off my ignore list since yesterday. MarcR gave me the nudge. So I waited and nothing came. Could have been that Ben Pmed me just prior to that.

I wasn't aware of MarcR interceding, but that's wonderful. Glad we can now discuss things, thank you.

 

[Angela53510]

You are right 100% and also 100% wrong. A child crosses a road. A man races down and pulls the child away from the on coming vehical. Now you could describe the event based on the emotional outlook and feelings of those involved and how it effected them before and after the event. Now each description would be true, but each different.
Some descriptions would show consequences others facts.

So Jesus came to show us love, to set us free, to tell us we are loved and known, 100%, every hair is counted. He forgives our sins, takes the punishment we were due etc. The consequences on the believer is we are loved, not alone, understood at a level no human understands us. Now understanding how we are inside, does not have to be written in the bible to be true, as it is further information than the pure details of scripture. Because it is not mentioned in scripture does not invalidate its truth, like much of our biology is not mentioned in scripture but it is still true.

Do you think all Jesus means to us is save us from our sins, as if this is a static thing? This is a start of a relationship, of sharing, of giving and receiving.

The problem I see with the viewpoint you are taking things as a single cold reading and not the vastness of life and the interwoven nature of the infinite implications of righteousness, holiness, joy, sadness, hurt, healing that will go on into eternity. Truth is not a singular take on anything. I am trying to grasp this and convey how this impacts us, because this is the power of walking in the Lord.

The problem is that when you start with the wrong foundation, you are building on sinking sands, as Jesus so aptly described in the parables recorded in Luke 6:46-49 and Matt. 7:24-27.

If you do not start with Biblical definitions, you are going to be guilty of wandering off into New Age nonsense like "my theology" which is not based on the real gospel.

We all need to start with Bible, which is the revelation of Jesus Christ, to know him, to love and serve him. God is the source and ground of all I am, he is a living, and in order to walk with him, we actually need to know what he has told us. We should not base our Christianity on false and humanistic premises.

Walking in the Lord, it the Greek word Peripateo. It means "walk/live." So in order to live in the fullness of Christ, we need to walk with him in the knowledge he has given us in his Word, and through relationship with him. Sadly, if you do not know the Word, as you do not seem to, never quoting it or referring to it, you are just going to end up making stuff up as you go along. And that is a sure fire walk to walk away from the Almighty God and his will and plan for our lives.