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N
I said nothing about a building.
I said the pastor of a local church.
A true church is not the building but the people. The baptised belivers who have united together to preach the Gospel to all in their area.
If and when you choose not to be a part of a local church, you are out of fellowship with your Savior.
You will never find a perfect local church, so find the one that is reaching the lost and join in.
I said the pastor of a local church.
A true church is not the building but the people. The baptised belivers who have united together to preach the Gospel to all in their area.
If and when you choose not to be a part of a local church, you are out of fellowship with your Savior.
You will never find a perfect local church, so find the one that is reaching the lost and join in.
K
I find it strange that a person will buy a ticket to here someone sing or lecture or buy a book, but will not support the pastor of their local church.
This is the actual living by the gospel the bible speaks on, not that they should receive a set salary and it to be done in a job like manner.
Like I have said before them charging for selling books, CD's, or DVD's they have written there is nothing wrong with that, however if they are using the money they get for self then it does become wrong. For the role of the preacher is not for self edification, they are responsible for and overseers of the whole flock/congregation.
This concept has been lost over time in making it a job, all they have to do is show up and preach and then they are done for this week. That is not all there is to being a preacher !!!
3
For another topic thread..but I do not agree with the current way the institution of going to church is set up.
I meet with other members of a local church for fellowship, prayer, and Bible study.
We meet in the home of one of the members.
GOING to church is a waste of time.
BEING an active member of a local Church is a blessing and is pleasing to your Savior.
If you want to spend your money on books, music, etc, that is your choice and I have no problem with that.
But when a person does that, but will not be part of a local Church, and support the pastor of that church, I do have a problem with that kind of thinking.
3
Supporting their pastor and setting a set salary is two different things, and tithes are not to be used for the pastor alone to live on. They are for the whole body as supporting a pastor could be as simple as one person makes them dinner today, and another does it tomorrow, and so on.
This is the actual living by the gospel the bible speaks on, not that they should receive a set salary and it to be done in a job like manner.
Like I have said before them charging for selling books, CD's, or DVD's they have written there is nothing wrong with that, however if they are using the money they get for self then it does become wrong. For the role of the preacher is not for self edification, they are responsible for and overseers of the whole flock/congregation.
This concept has been lost over time in making it a job, all they have to do is show up and preach and then they are done for this week. That is not all there is to being a preacher !!!
This is the actual living by the gospel the bible speaks on, not that they should receive a set salary and it to be done in a job like manner.
Like I have said before them charging for selling books, CD's, or DVD's they have written there is nothing wrong with that, however if they are using the money they get for self then it does become wrong. For the role of the preacher is not for self edification, they are responsible for and overseers of the whole flock/congregation.
This concept has been lost over time in making it a job, all they have to do is show up and preach and then they are done for this week. That is not all there is to being a preacher !!!
To fill the office of pastor is a 24/7 duty.
I know that MOST men do not see it that way.
They do as little as possible to keep their office.
I also know that MOST men see it as a job or career. A easy way to make a living.
I agree that all the money is not to go to the pastor, but when a pastor, a TRUE 24/7 pastor, has to work 40-50 hours a week, it takes time from his duties as pastor and the church suffers.
It also takes time from his family and his health suffers.
I know that there are many out there that live an easy life, but there are even more who fill the office of Pastor because they fill the Holy Spirit leading them to do so. They do if with little or no support. They work 40-50 hours a week. They often give more money for the expenses of the church than most members do. They spend years sleeping 4-5 hours a night.
If you have never filled the office of a pastor, you have no right to judge them.
Don't judge most pastors by those on TV on in those fancy buildings.
N
I do not GO to church.
I meet with other members of a local church for fellowship, prayer, and Bible study.
We meet in the home of one of the members.
GOING to church is a waste of time.
BEING an active member of a local Church is a blessing and is pleasing to your Savior.
If you want to spend your money on books, music, etc, that is your choice and I have no problem with that.
But when a person does that, but will not be part of a local Church, and support the pastor of that church, I do have a problem with that kind of thinking.
I meet with other members of a local church for fellowship, prayer, and Bible study.
We meet in the home of one of the members.
GOING to church is a waste of time.
BEING an active member of a local Church is a blessing and is pleasing to your Savior.
If you want to spend your money on books, music, etc, that is your choice and I have no problem with that.
But when a person does that, but will not be part of a local Church, and support the pastor of that church, I do have a problem with that kind of thinking.
("church" would last 4-6 hours plus an hour travel at the going rate of $10 an hour and trusting a stranger my money was better spent on other things)
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A
When we buy a book about God to read or pay to go see a special speaker or buy a CD to sing along a song about God; are we paying to be fed or are we paying for access to that experience that otherwise we cannot access?
If someone is given a gift, word, knowledge, teaching etc. Are these things that should be charged for? We know it costs money to print a book or to make a CD or to travel to arenas to preach so it can't really be free. However, does God want us to make our living off of these gifts he has given us to share?
I would like to hear opinions.
My opinion is split.
If someone is given a gift, word, knowledge, teaching etc. Are these things that should be charged for? We know it costs money to print a book or to make a CD or to travel to arenas to preach so it can't really be free. However, does God want us to make our living off of these gifts he has given us to share?
I would like to hear opinions.
My opinion is split.
-- writing skills.
-- bookkeeping skills.
-- organizational skills
-- sales skills.
Should I not be paid for using my gifts?
Let's say I do the bookkeeping for a church.
I write the church's newsletter.
I organize the maintenance crew for a church.
I sold tickets to a Christian concert.
Did that just change anything?
Why?
It seems to me anyone buying books, music or conferences can afford it, so exactly why shouldn't people get paid? None of it is needed.
To tell you the truth, it does quite often seem that Christians like using that as an excuse to get a freebie. As if they're in a special club where they are owed, but no one else is. I'm not saying that's where you are. If your opinion is split, I suspect it's split because people are trying to convince you this is something they think they deserve for free and it sounds like a reasonable argument.
But because of that mentality, I was very relunctant to advertise my business in a Christian telephone directory, because I feared people would expect me to give them a special discount on doing work for them, simply because we were both Christians. I think that is a serious problem within the church. If someone that's not a believer deserves money for their skill, then why doesn't a believer deserve money?
(BTW, I don't buy any of those things. I can't afford them ad don't see a purpose for them. BUT, give me a good novel written by a Christian, and I'll buy that if it's worth keeping. lol)
K
My gifts:
-- writing skills.
-- bookkeeping skills.
-- organizational skills
-- sales skills.
Should I not be paid for using my gifts?
Let's say I do the bookkeeping for a church.
I write the church's newsletter.
I organize the maintenance crew for a church.
I sold tickets to a Christian concert.
Did that just change anything?
Why?
It seems to me anyone buying books, music or conferences can afford it, so exactly why shouldn't people get paid? None of it is needed.
To tell you the truth, it does quite often seem that Christians like using that as an excuse to get a freebie. As if they're in a special club where they are owed, but no one else is. I'm not saying that's where you are. If your opinion is split, I suspect it's split because people are trying to convince you this is something they think they deserve for free and it sounds like a reasonable argument.
But because of that mentality, I was very relunctant to advertise my business in a Christian telephone directory, because I feared people would expect me to give them a special discount on doing work for them, simply because we were both Christians. I think that is a serious problem within the church. If someone that's not a believer deserves money for their skill, then why doesn't a believer deserve money?
(BTW, I don't buy any of those things. I can't afford them ad don't see a purpose for them. BUT, give me a good novel written by a Christian, and I'll buy that if it's worth keeping. lol)
-- writing skills.
-- bookkeeping skills.
-- organizational skills
-- sales skills.
Should I not be paid for using my gifts?
Let's say I do the bookkeeping for a church.
I write the church's newsletter.
I organize the maintenance crew for a church.
I sold tickets to a Christian concert.
Did that just change anything?
Why?
It seems to me anyone buying books, music or conferences can afford it, so exactly why shouldn't people get paid? None of it is needed.
To tell you the truth, it does quite often seem that Christians like using that as an excuse to get a freebie. As if they're in a special club where they are owed, but no one else is. I'm not saying that's where you are. If your opinion is split, I suspect it's split because people are trying to convince you this is something they think they deserve for free and it sounds like a reasonable argument.
But because of that mentality, I was very relunctant to advertise my business in a Christian telephone directory, because I feared people would expect me to give them a special discount on doing work for them, simply because we were both Christians. I think that is a serious problem within the church. If someone that's not a believer deserves money for their skill, then why doesn't a believer deserve money?
(BTW, I don't buy any of those things. I can't afford them ad don't see a purpose for them. BUT, give me a good novel written by a Christian, and I'll buy that if it's worth keeping. lol)
Applause,applause,applause...
N
My gifts:
-- writing skills.
-- bookkeeping skills.
-- organizational skills
-- sales skills.
Should I not be paid for using my gifts?
Let's say I do the bookkeeping for a church.
I write the church's newsletter.
I organize the maintenance crew for a church.
I sold tickets to a Christian concert.
Did that just change anything?
Why?
It seems to me anyone buying books, music or conferences can afford it, so exactly why shouldn't people get paid? None of it is needed.
To tell you the truth, it does quite often seem that Christians like using that as an excuse to get a freebie. As if they're in a special club where they are owed, but no one else is. I'm not saying that's where you are. If your opinion is split, I suspect it's split because people are trying to convince you this is something they think they deserve for free and it sounds like a reasonable argument.
But because of that mentality, I was very relunctant to advertise my business in a Christian telephone directory, because I feared people would expect me to give them a special discount on doing work for them, simply because we were both Christians. I think that is a serious problem within the church. If someone that's not a believer deserves money for their skill, then why doesn't a believer deserve money?
(BTW, I don't buy any of those things. I can't afford them ad don't see a purpose for them. BUT, give me a good novel written by a Christian, and I'll buy that if it's worth keeping. lol)
-- writing skills.
-- bookkeeping skills.
-- organizational skills
-- sales skills.
Should I not be paid for using my gifts?
Let's say I do the bookkeeping for a church.
I write the church's newsletter.
I organize the maintenance crew for a church.
I sold tickets to a Christian concert.
Did that just change anything?
Why?
It seems to me anyone buying books, music or conferences can afford it, so exactly why shouldn't people get paid? None of it is needed.
To tell you the truth, it does quite often seem that Christians like using that as an excuse to get a freebie. As if they're in a special club where they are owed, but no one else is. I'm not saying that's where you are. If your opinion is split, I suspect it's split because people are trying to convince you this is something they think they deserve for free and it sounds like a reasonable argument.
But because of that mentality, I was very relunctant to advertise my business in a Christian telephone directory, because I feared people would expect me to give them a special discount on doing work for them, simply because we were both Christians. I think that is a serious problem within the church. If someone that's not a believer deserves money for their skill, then why doesn't a believer deserve money?
(BTW, I don't buy any of those things. I can't afford them ad don't see a purpose for them. BUT, give me a good novel written by a Christian, and I'll buy that if it's worth keeping. lol)
What I see wrong is that why are not the teachings and the preachings of the Gospel free? If you have some special knowledge that the Holy Spirit gave you to help other people understand why would you charge for that?
This is where I am split...I know writing a book takes time and energy and publishers...so for that I understand compensation...
If I could minister to you something I would not want compensation..I would like to bless you..
K
There is a difference in being a preacher and filling the OFFICE of a pastor.
To fill the office of pastor is a 24/7 duty.
I know that MOST men do not see it that way.
They do as little as possible to keep their office.
I also know that MOST men see it as a job or career. A easy way to make a living.
I agree that all the money is not to go to the pastor, but when a pastor, a TRUE 24/7 pastor, has to work 40-50 hours a week, it takes time from his duties as pastor and the church suffers.
It also takes time from his family and his health suffers.
I know that there are many out there that live an easy life, but there are even more who fill the office of Pastor because they fill the Holy Spirit leading them to do so. They do if with little or no support. They work 40-50 hours a week. They often give more money for the expenses of the church than most members do. They spend years sleeping 4-5 hours a night.
If you have never filled the office of a pastor, you have no right to judge them.
Don't judge most pastors by those on TV on in those fancy buildings.
To fill the office of pastor is a 24/7 duty.
I know that MOST men do not see it that way.
They do as little as possible to keep their office.
I also know that MOST men see it as a job or career. A easy way to make a living.
I agree that all the money is not to go to the pastor, but when a pastor, a TRUE 24/7 pastor, has to work 40-50 hours a week, it takes time from his duties as pastor and the church suffers.
It also takes time from his family and his health suffers.
I know that there are many out there that live an easy life, but there are even more who fill the office of Pastor because they fill the Holy Spirit leading them to do so. They do if with little or no support. They work 40-50 hours a week. They often give more money for the expenses of the church than most members do. They spend years sleeping 4-5 hours a night.
If you have never filled the office of a pastor, you have no right to judge them.
Don't judge most pastors by those on TV on in those fancy buildings.
This is why the role of a preacher/pastor is not for everybody, and why it is warned that not all should seek this role out because it is not an easy role in the church.
It is time consuming and takes a lot to be in such a leadership role, and also why such people are held to watch themselves more closely on how they preach.
Being a preacher is not an easy role to fulfill in the body !!!
K
I see nothing wrong with buying things...I see nothing wrong with helping missionaries...I see nothing wrong with giving to a pastor...
What I see wrong is that why are not the teachings and the preachings of the Gospel free? If you have some special knowledge that the Holy Spirit gave you to help other people understand why would you charge for that?
This is where I am split...I know writing a book takes time and energy and publishers...so for that I understand compensation...
If I could minister to you something I would not want compensation..I would like to bless you..
What I see wrong is that why are not the teachings and the preachings of the Gospel free? If you have some special knowledge that the Holy Spirit gave you to help other people understand why would you charge for that?
This is where I am split...I know writing a book takes time and energy and publishers...so for that I understand compensation...
If I could minister to you something I would not want compensation..I would like to bless you..
Well Ive mentioned this on the forums before but since you are new I'll say it again.I traveled with my family for 20yrs in ministry in every denomination that would allow us to preach the gospel that Jesus saves. So I guess if you have questions you'd like to ask,fire away and I'll do my best to answer.
A
Actually this is a bad rendering of 1 Corinthians 9:14, as this has nothing to do with financial gain.
For the Apostle Paul clearly says in 1 Timothy 6:5 that anybody who thinks godliness is a means to gain we are to withdraw from such people, because their doctrine is built on greed.
Living by the gospel means that we are to confirm our lives to the way the Lord set before us to walk, as the Lord said freely you have been given freely you are to give. (Matthew 10:8)
The Lord did not say to charge for giving the word, healing, and any of the other gifts we will administer by the Holy Spirit.
I have no problem with them charging money for books they have written or CD/DVD's they have made, but if they use the money for self instead of edifying others then that is where I have a problem. Because the bible clearly warns of getting mixed up in the snares of evil that the love of money leads to, as it shows that some who once preached the truth do get drawn away in apostasy from it.
For the Apostle Paul clearly says in 1 Timothy 6:5 that anybody who thinks godliness is a means to gain we are to withdraw from such people, because their doctrine is built on greed.
Living by the gospel means that we are to confirm our lives to the way the Lord set before us to walk, as the Lord said freely you have been given freely you are to give. (Matthew 10:8)
The Lord did not say to charge for giving the word, healing, and any of the other gifts we will administer by the Holy Spirit.
I have no problem with them charging money for books they have written or CD/DVD's they have made, but if they use the money for self instead of edifying others then that is where I have a problem. Because the bible clearly warns of getting mixed up in the snares of evil that the love of money leads to, as it shows that some who once preached the truth do get drawn away in apostasy from it.
Imagine Peter the fisherman. Was he supposed to haul in fish and then preach AND guide the whole of the church? That confines him to places near his boat. How about a tax collector minister? He is only to collect taxes locally, so there goes traveling far. Shepherds can't be a a minister for obvious reasons. Moses was obviously a lazy bum. You're judging many who are called to preach the word.
What do you do for a living? And tell me how you survived without being greedy with money.
If you don't think someone should pay for books, music and conferences than don't buy those things. But don't tell others how they can make a living. And, assuming you asked for pay raises, tell me how that's not greedy but selling a book or music is.
It's just like being an artist. Either your stuff is good enough to sell and make a living doing or it's a side gig. Of all things -- writing, music and speaking engagements are of the devil? Yeesh! No one has to go if they don't want to. You don't need a book or a song to survive. I can see maybe getting upset with Christian plumbers who won't put running water in a poor person's home, but really? Writing, music, and speakers?
What do/did you do for a living that those are the bad guys in life?
A
Job was probably the wrong word to use as it does mean to get compensation. Not sure what other word but service.
Job is not a dirty word. It's a very good word. Barter system doesn't work.
A
Back to my OP.
The opinions I was looking for were about access to information and the teachings and preaching of the Gospel. Should they cost us?
Yes or No?
The opinions I was looking for were about access to information and the teachings and preaching of the Gospel. Should they cost us?
Yes or No?
If I could not afford those, I could afford a Bible. All the access I could want.
For those who cannot afford the Bible there are plenty of people and groups who can give them free. All the access they could want.
For music and books written by who knows who about who knows what? It's a luxury. It's not needed. Most of it is luxury items.
I have teddy bears, so I'm not against luxury items, but, geesh! Good to know the difference between need and want. All those things you're asking about are wants, not needs. If you want them, pay for them.
N
Job is the right word. If someone writes well enough to do anything else, being an author is his/her job. If someone can sing or play an instrument well enough to have no other job, his/her job is musician."If someone only speaks for a living, then speaker is the name of that job.
Job is not a dirty word. It's a very good word. Barter system doesn't work.
Job is not a dirty word. It's a very good word. Barter system doesn't work.