Is the Devil bound right now...?
- Thread starter Bowman
- Start date
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Revelation: 20. 1. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
*The angel that is written in this verse is the key
for that angel is the one who bound him a thousand years!!
but how we supposed to know who this angel might be?
can anyone answer this question please?
But if you don't know how
Please don't attempt to do it?
:ty:
2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
*The angel that is written in this verse is the key
for that angel is the one who bound him a thousand years!!
but how we supposed to know who this angel might be?
can anyone answer this question please?
But if you don't know how
Please don't attempt to do it?
:ty:
DiscipleDave,
Satan is bound but it has nothing whatsoever to do with his activity or whether he can tempt anyone. It also has absolutely nothing to do with all this nonsense regarding premillennialism.
Some on this thread claim to be such great Bible scholars and they have no idea what it means.
If you believe this explain why you hold to man made theories by men who do exactly what you state no man should do.
It is the height of folly to claim that all the many variations as well as the basic premise of premillennialism is of the Holy Spirit. It is actually a form of blasphemy. You are ascribing the work of the devil as that of being done by the Holy Spirit.
You should follow your advice.
It is by the work of the Holy Spirit from the beginning to preserve the revelation He gave once to the Apostles. He has been faithful in preserving it unchanged for 2000 years. Not at any time in those 2000 years has a teaching of premillinnialism ever been the belief of the Church. It is very easy to determine a false teaching because it has not been from the beginning.
Satan is bound but it has nothing whatsoever to do with his activity or whether he can tempt anyone. It also has absolutely nothing to do with all this nonsense regarding premillennialism.
Some on this thread claim to be such great Bible scholars and they have no idea what it means.
If you believe this explain why you hold to man made theories by men who do exactly what you state no man should do.
It is the height of folly to claim that all the many variations as well as the basic premise of premillennialism is of the Holy Spirit. It is actually a form of blasphemy. You are ascribing the work of the devil as that of being done by the Holy Spirit.
You should follow your advice.
It is by the work of the Holy Spirit from the beginning to preserve the revelation He gave once to the Apostles. He has been faithful in preserving it unchanged for 2000 years. Not at any time in those 2000 years has a teaching of premillinnialism ever been the belief of the Church. It is very easy to determine a false teaching because it has not been from the beginning.
Yes.
The Devil is bound, right now...
Heb 2.14 - 15
Since, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, in like manner He Himself also shared the same things, that through death He might render entirely idle (katargēsē) the one having the power of death, that is, the devil; and might set these free (apallaxē),as many as by fear of death were subject to slavery through all the lifetime to live.
The reader is informed that at Jesus’ death:
· The Devil is rendered entirely idle
· Because The Devil has been rendered impotent, this then sets people free
The Devil is bound, right now...
Heb 2.14 - 15
Since, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, in like manner He Himself also shared the same things, that through death He might render entirely idle (katargēsē) the one having the power of death, that is, the devil; and might set these free (apallaxē),as many as by fear of death were subject to slavery through all the lifetime to live.
The reader is informed that at Jesus’ death:
· The Devil is rendered entirely idle
· Because The Devil has been rendered impotent, this then sets people free
The Devil is bound, right now...
Can you post the said verse in the scripture please
because if the said verse do not match up the verse
that is
written in the apocalips we mean in
The revealation then
the event that takes place in the revealation
are not meant to happen yet
and we just recall here that even
the word of our Lord Jesus Christ telling us this
Matthew: 24. 21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
which was stated in the
Revelation: 7. 14. And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
it is written as we can see and read
Although the
Question
that it is impossible to answer even from this very moment
in every mind of human aspects
where and when the great tribulation happeneds
As we can see my brother
the revelation is written step by step
in accordance to what will happen
Now or in the near future?
Or shall we say in the past? :rofl: because
Our lord Christ Jesus happeneds
To be crusified in the past :scarf:
:smoke: We hope everybody here got it right :happy:
:now: or
:chair: we are happened to be in the wrong grammar :blush:
:smoke: Thank you very much :happy:
Can you post the said verse in the scripture please
because if the said verse do not match up the verse
that is
written in the apocalips we mean in
The revealation then
the event that takes place in the revealation
are not meant to happen yet
and we just recall here that even
the word of our Lord Jesus Christ telling us this
Matthew: 24. 21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
which was stated in the
Revelation: 7. 14. And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
it is written as we can see and read
Although the
Question
that it is impossible to answer even from this very moment
in every mind of human aspects
where and when the great tribulation happeneds
As we can see my brother
the revelation is written step by step
in accordance to what will happen
Now or in the near future?
Or shall we say in the past? :rofl: because
Our lord Christ Jesus happeneds
To be crusified in the past :scarf:
:smoke: We hope everybody here got it right :happy:
:now: or
:chair: we are happened to be in the wrong grammar :blush:
:smoke: Thank you very much :happy:
1 Peter 5:4-8
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
KJV
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
KJV
To Bowman,
First of all, the above does not match Rev.20:1-2, which says that Satan is bound in the Abyss for a thousand years. This is just circumvention of scripture. Very sloppy, misapplied, exegesis! There is nothing in that verse that describes Satan being bound in the Abyss. In the verse above Jesus broke the devil's power over death by fulfilling the law, which was ammunition for Satan and the powers of darkness against us and by paying the penalty for sins, so that believers no longer had to fear death and that because Christ tasted death for us. Breaking the power of death has nothing at all to do with Satan being bound in the Abyss for a thousand years. But then again, we have to remember that Bowman and Cassian and other's who are amil, are people who haphazardly apply meanings to scripture any way they seem fit in order to support there false teachings, while at the same time trying discredit those who teach the real truth. People who will, instead of taking scripture at face value, will do something so ignorant as to take the formula of Psalms 50:10 and apply it to Rev.20:1-2. Just unbelievable!
First of all, the above does not match Rev.20:1-2, which says that Satan is bound in the Abyss for a thousand years. This is just circumvention of scripture. Very sloppy, misapplied, exegesis! There is nothing in that verse that describes Satan being bound in the Abyss. In the verse above Jesus broke the devil's power over death by fulfilling the law, which was ammunition for Satan and the powers of darkness against us and by paying the penalty for sins, so that believers no longer had to fear death and that because Christ tasted death for us. Breaking the power of death has nothing at all to do with Satan being bound in the Abyss for a thousand years. But then again, we have to remember that Bowman and Cassian and other's who are amil, are people who haphazardly apply meanings to scripture any way they seem fit in order to support there false teachings, while at the same time trying discredit those who teach the real truth. People who will, instead of taking scripture at face value, will do something so ignorant as to take the formula of Psalms 50:10 and apply it to Rev.20:1-2. Just unbelievable!
I'll have to respond in parts brother, because you posted so much.
Rev 19:14
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
KJV
Those "armies" those follow Him include the 'asleep' saints He brings with Him when He comes, as per 1 Thess.4. The 1 Thess.4 Scripture is specific; Jesus brings the 'asleep' saints with Him that have already died, and in the process of His return He gathers the alive saints still on the earth, i.e., they are "caught up" and joined with the 'asleep' saints. Then all go to Jerusalem for this final battle per Zech.14.
Therefore, mention of the resurrection is not needed in that Rev.19:11-21 Scripture; there's enough written elsewhere about it that link with the event of His coming, like 1 Thess.4 and Zech.14 and Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 and 1 Cor.15, etc. Just because an event in one Book is not mentioned in another Book does not cancel out what was given prior. That kind of thinking actually goes opposite to how God revealed events in His Word, details of an event having different coverage between different Books. It's a way to give more info without repeating again what was given before.
Thus your point #1 is disproved.
Again, not needed if... one studies all of God's Word to be familiar where it does explain the resurrection and when. In Jesus' parable of the "tares of the field", He shows the tares go into the fire without mention of His future "thousand years" reign. In His Revelation, chapter 20 reveals the "thousand years" must take place first. So just because Matt.13 didn't mention that "thousand years" it does not cancel out the Rev.20 Scripture He gave later through John. This is actually very basic.
Thus your point #2 is disproved.
The Isaiah 53 and Ps.22 Scripture examples are about His 1st coming, humbling Himself meek as a lamb to die on the cross. There was a small resurrection of saints in Jerusalem when Jesus died on the cross, but that is not... the resurrection you speak of that is to occur at the time of Jesus' 2nd coming. In Luke 4, Jesus went into the temple and read from Isaiah 61:1-2, but He did not complete the phrase "and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn." He closed the Book before He got to that last part, because... His 1st coming was not the time for that day of vengeance, for that day is reserved for the day of His 2nd coming.
The Zech.14 and Ps.2 Scripture examples are about His future 2nd coming and reign on earth.
The New Testament Scriptures agree with both of those 2 comings, so both the OT and NT Scriptures are declaring the same thing about the 2 times of His coming. There are other OT Scriptures that also have that 2 times of His coming alignment, the Zech.9:9 verse is about His 1st coming, and the Zech.9:10 verse is about His 2nd coming.
Therefore, there is NO in-between coming secret rapture mentioned in any of those Scriptures, not in the OT nor the NT. His 2nd coming there is linked with the time of judgment upon the wicked which the OT prophets called "the day of the Lord", which is the timing of the Rev.19:11-21 Scripture, that Zech.14, Zech.9:10, and Ps.2 Scripture.
Thus your point #3 is disproved.
Correct that our Lord Jesus said no man knows the 'day' of His second coming (Matt.24 towards the end of the chapter). When He was speaking of the time of "great tribulation", He also showed those days will be 'shortened' (Matt.24:22). So how can anyone depend on the end of that latter 1260 days from the Book of Daniel being the actual day of His return? It is now only a ballpark figure timing, and not the actual day. Even the Jews cannot predict the day of His 2nd coming.
Thus your point #4 is disproved.
Apostle John did not literally go into Heaven in Revelation 1, he was given to see... into the heavenly. In Rev.1:9 he said he was in the isle of Patmos. He said he was "in the Spirit on the Lord's day" (Rev.1:10). He heard behind him a voice as a great trumpet, then turned around to look and that's when The Lord began showing him the visions. No mystery that God is able to cause His servants to see visions of the heavenly, while they were not bodily in Heaven; many such cases in the OT prophets.
The meaning of John's phrase "the Lord's day" is about "the day of the Lord", for those were the type of visions John was given in order to write down and give to the seven Churches in Asia. That's what Revelation is especially about. His being "in the Spirit" has no connection with a pre-trib rapture. He experienced that so God could give him the prophecies so as to give to the Churches about what to expect for the end days. Linking that to a pre-trib rapture theory of men is adding to that Rev.1 Scripture.
Thus your point #5 is disproved.
You apparently misunderstand 2 Cor.12 about the one "caught up" also, I assume.
That Rev.4:1 event is linked to what John said in Rev.1:10, that he was "in the Spirit". His physical body was still on earth on the isle of Patmos. The situation with God's two witnesses being killed per Rev.11 is different, for they were killed, John was not. Major difference there.
Moreover, if you link a rapture with the two witnesses of Rev.11:12 being told to, "Come up hither", that is just prior... to the sounding of the 7th Trumpet and time of destruction upon the wicked, revealing "the day of the Lord" events of Jesus' 2nd coming and then immediate reign over the nations. Also, that happens to the two witnesses at the ENDING of the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period, which is AT... the ENDING of the latter 1260 days of Daniel, which means at the END OF THE TRIBULATION. By the sounding of that 7th Trumpet, the tribulation is all over.
Thus your point #6 is disproved,
...and in a roundabout way, you have unknowingly proven that the rapture will occur at the end of the 1260 days of Rev.11 (and that part is... correct, Christ's 2nd coming is AFTER the tribulation like He said in Matt.24:29-31).
The crowns are not handed out UNTIL the day of Jesus' 2nd coming on "the day of the Lord", which is when the wicked on the earth are subdued and He begins His "thousand years" reign with His elect priests and kings.
So instead of moving that 24 elders event backwards before the tribulation, like you've wrongly been taught, you need to move it to the future when it will actually occur, which is after Jesus' 2nd coming and start of His "thousand years" reign on earth, i.e., the Zechariah 14 timing.
If you keep reading into the Rev.5 chapter, you would have discovered this...
Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV
Exactly WHEN is it that they sing that "new song"???
One must continue to read in Revelation, all the way down to Rev.14...
Rev 14:1-3
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
KJV
"Sion" simply is a translation from the Greek for Zion, which is in Jerusalem on earth, i.e., the Mount Zion. That "Lamb" is our Lord Jesus standing there on earth in Jerusalem where He returns, and that area... is where that "throne" is!!! There is no Revelation Scripture between Rev.4-5 and this Rev.14 Scripture to show all that mysteriously moved from Heaven down to the earth where Zion is!
The LORD gives us details of events that we must 'rightly divide' as to their timing per His Word of Truth. Apostle Paul told us to be careful to do that dividing of the Scriptures (2 Tim.2:15), to become a "workman" in God's Word to be approved of God, and not found in shame. The way that is done is you familiarize yourself with all His Word which has many event relationships between different Books.
Thus your point #7 is disproved.
You cannot just destroy... the times and the seasons coverage that Apostle Paul and Peter gave us. If Revelation were the only Bible Book we had, then you might be able to theorize all that above.
Again, in 1 Thess.4, Apostle Paul made it plain that Jesus brings the 'asleep' saints with Him when He comes. That's one group of saints, i.e., those that have already died. And at that same time He will gather His saints still alive on earth to Him, which means joining with those 'asleep' saints coming with Him. And then Zech.14 reveals His coming there to Jerusalem with all His saints. It will not take 1260 days for Him to accomplish that. It will happen suddenly, at the "last trump", in the "twinkling of an eye", like Paul also taught in 1 Cor.15.
In the very next... 1 Thess.5 chapter, Apostle Paul linked the timing of Jesus' 2nd coming with "the day of the Lord". He did that by the "thief in the night" timing metaphor. In Rev.16:15, on the 6th Vial timing, Jesus warned His Church that He comes "as a thief". On the 7th Vial is when the great battle of Armageddon will happen, which is the LAST day of this present world, which is the time of "the day of the Lord" events per the OT prophets. Thus Apostle Paul perfectly aligned with the timing of the OT prophets about "the day of the Lord" events being the day of Christ's 2nd coming and... gathering of His Church.
The armies of Rev.19 that come with Jesus to destroy the wicked on that day perfectly aligns with the time the OT prophets showed about "the day of the Lord" events. And it perfectly aligns with the Zech.14 Scripture about Jesus' feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives (where He ascend from per Acts 1) and all the saints with Him there, which is Jerusalem on earth!
Moreover, in 2 Pet.3:10, Peter linked "the day of the Lord" with the "thief in the night" idea. That further proves our time of gathering by Jesus at His 2nd coming will only... occur on that "day of the Lord" timing.
Thus your #8 point is disproved.
Rev 19:14
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
KJV
Those "armies" those follow Him include the 'asleep' saints He brings with Him when He comes, as per 1 Thess.4. The 1 Thess.4 Scripture is specific; Jesus brings the 'asleep' saints with Him that have already died, and in the process of His return He gathers the alive saints still on the earth, i.e., they are "caught up" and joined with the 'asleep' saints. Then all go to Jerusalem for this final battle per Zech.14.
Therefore, mention of the resurrection is not needed in that Rev.19:11-21 Scripture; there's enough written elsewhere about it that link with the event of His coming, like 1 Thess.4 and Zech.14 and Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 and 1 Cor.15, etc. Just because an event in one Book is not mentioned in another Book does not cancel out what was given prior. That kind of thinking actually goes opposite to how God revealed events in His Word, details of an event having different coverage between different Books. It's a way to give more info without repeating again what was given before.
Thus your point #1 is disproved.
Again, not needed if... one studies all of God's Word to be familiar where it does explain the resurrection and when. In Jesus' parable of the "tares of the field", He shows the tares go into the fire without mention of His future "thousand years" reign. In His Revelation, chapter 20 reveals the "thousand years" must take place first. So just because Matt.13 didn't mention that "thousand years" it does not cancel out the Rev.20 Scripture He gave later through John. This is actually very basic.
Thus your point #2 is disproved.
The Isaiah 53 and Ps.22 Scripture examples are about His 1st coming, humbling Himself meek as a lamb to die on the cross. There was a small resurrection of saints in Jerusalem when Jesus died on the cross, but that is not... the resurrection you speak of that is to occur at the time of Jesus' 2nd coming. In Luke 4, Jesus went into the temple and read from Isaiah 61:1-2, but He did not complete the phrase "and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn." He closed the Book before He got to that last part, because... His 1st coming was not the time for that day of vengeance, for that day is reserved for the day of His 2nd coming.
The Zech.14 and Ps.2 Scripture examples are about His future 2nd coming and reign on earth.
The New Testament Scriptures agree with both of those 2 comings, so both the OT and NT Scriptures are declaring the same thing about the 2 times of His coming. There are other OT Scriptures that also have that 2 times of His coming alignment, the Zech.9:9 verse is about His 1st coming, and the Zech.9:10 verse is about His 2nd coming.
Therefore, there is NO in-between coming secret rapture mentioned in any of those Scriptures, not in the OT nor the NT. His 2nd coming there is linked with the time of judgment upon the wicked which the OT prophets called "the day of the Lord", which is the timing of the Rev.19:11-21 Scripture, that Zech.14, Zech.9:10, and Ps.2 Scripture.
Thus your point #3 is disproved.
Correct that our Lord Jesus said no man knows the 'day' of His second coming (Matt.24 towards the end of the chapter). When He was speaking of the time of "great tribulation", He also showed those days will be 'shortened' (Matt.24:22). So how can anyone depend on the end of that latter 1260 days from the Book of Daniel being the actual day of His return? It is now only a ballpark figure timing, and not the actual day. Even the Jews cannot predict the day of His 2nd coming.
Thus your point #4 is disproved.
Apostle John did not literally go into Heaven in Revelation 1, he was given to see... into the heavenly. In Rev.1:9 he said he was in the isle of Patmos. He said he was "in the Spirit on the Lord's day" (Rev.1:10). He heard behind him a voice as a great trumpet, then turned around to look and that's when The Lord began showing him the visions. No mystery that God is able to cause His servants to see visions of the heavenly, while they were not bodily in Heaven; many such cases in the OT prophets.
The meaning of John's phrase "the Lord's day" is about "the day of the Lord", for those were the type of visions John was given in order to write down and give to the seven Churches in Asia. That's what Revelation is especially about. His being "in the Spirit" has no connection with a pre-trib rapture. He experienced that so God could give him the prophecies so as to give to the Churches about what to expect for the end days. Linking that to a pre-trib rapture theory of men is adding to that Rev.1 Scripture.
Thus your point #5 is disproved.
You apparently misunderstand 2 Cor.12 about the one "caught up" also, I assume.
That Rev.4:1 event is linked to what John said in Rev.1:10, that he was "in the Spirit". His physical body was still on earth on the isle of Patmos. The situation with God's two witnesses being killed per Rev.11 is different, for they were killed, John was not. Major difference there.
Moreover, if you link a rapture with the two witnesses of Rev.11:12 being told to, "Come up hither", that is just prior... to the sounding of the 7th Trumpet and time of destruction upon the wicked, revealing "the day of the Lord" events of Jesus' 2nd coming and then immediate reign over the nations. Also, that happens to the two witnesses at the ENDING of the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period, which is AT... the ENDING of the latter 1260 days of Daniel, which means at the END OF THE TRIBULATION. By the sounding of that 7th Trumpet, the tribulation is all over.
Thus your point #6 is disproved,
...and in a roundabout way, you have unknowingly proven that the rapture will occur at the end of the 1260 days of Rev.11 (and that part is... correct, Christ's 2nd coming is AFTER the tribulation like He said in Matt.24:29-31).
The crowns are not handed out UNTIL the day of Jesus' 2nd coming on "the day of the Lord", which is when the wicked on the earth are subdued and He begins His "thousand years" reign with His elect priests and kings.
So instead of moving that 24 elders event backwards before the tribulation, like you've wrongly been taught, you need to move it to the future when it will actually occur, which is after Jesus' 2nd coming and start of His "thousand years" reign on earth, i.e., the Zechariah 14 timing.
If you keep reading into the Rev.5 chapter, you would have discovered this...
Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV
Exactly WHEN is it that they sing that "new song"???
One must continue to read in Revelation, all the way down to Rev.14...
Rev 14:1-3
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
KJV
"Sion" simply is a translation from the Greek for Zion, which is in Jerusalem on earth, i.e., the Mount Zion. That "Lamb" is our Lord Jesus standing there on earth in Jerusalem where He returns, and that area... is where that "throne" is!!! There is no Revelation Scripture between Rev.4-5 and this Rev.14 Scripture to show all that mysteriously moved from Heaven down to the earth where Zion is!
The LORD gives us details of events that we must 'rightly divide' as to their timing per His Word of Truth. Apostle Paul told us to be careful to do that dividing of the Scriptures (2 Tim.2:15), to become a "workman" in God's Word to be approved of God, and not found in shame. The way that is done is you familiarize yourself with all His Word which has many event relationships between different Books.
Thus your point #7 is disproved.
You cannot just destroy... the times and the seasons coverage that Apostle Paul and Peter gave us. If Revelation were the only Bible Book we had, then you might be able to theorize all that above.
Again, in 1 Thess.4, Apostle Paul made it plain that Jesus brings the 'asleep' saints with Him when He comes. That's one group of saints, i.e., those that have already died. And at that same time He will gather His saints still alive on earth to Him, which means joining with those 'asleep' saints coming with Him. And then Zech.14 reveals His coming there to Jerusalem with all His saints. It will not take 1260 days for Him to accomplish that. It will happen suddenly, at the "last trump", in the "twinkling of an eye", like Paul also taught in 1 Cor.15.
In the very next... 1 Thess.5 chapter, Apostle Paul linked the timing of Jesus' 2nd coming with "the day of the Lord". He did that by the "thief in the night" timing metaphor. In Rev.16:15, on the 6th Vial timing, Jesus warned His Church that He comes "as a thief". On the 7th Vial is when the great battle of Armageddon will happen, which is the LAST day of this present world, which is the time of "the day of the Lord" events per the OT prophets. Thus Apostle Paul perfectly aligned with the timing of the OT prophets about "the day of the Lord" events being the day of Christ's 2nd coming and... gathering of His Church.
The armies of Rev.19 that come with Jesus to destroy the wicked on that day perfectly aligns with the time the OT prophets showed about "the day of the Lord" events. And it perfectly aligns with the Zech.14 Scripture about Jesus' feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives (where He ascend from per Acts 1) and all the saints with Him there, which is Jerusalem on earth!
Moreover, in 2 Pet.3:10, Peter linked "the day of the Lord" with the "thief in the night" idea. That further proves our time of gathering by Jesus at His 2nd coming will only... occur on that "day of the Lord" timing.
Thus your #8 point is disproved.
Thank you very much my brother
we are so glad to learn (knowing this thing "adversary" that you told us)
from someone who was been told also as amil and
a pre-mill believer though we :dontknow:
what is that pre-mill stands for as in we are not all knowing and
We humbly accepted that reality.
By the way my brother Dp what is this pre-mill?
Hope we don't ask to much from you and
We hope also thelat we are not offending you or somebody
who has the same beliefs as you do
Gobless always to you
And to all the people here in CC
believers or non believers
we are so glad to learn (knowing this thing "adversary" that you told us)
from someone who was been told also as amil and
a pre-mill believer though we :dontknow:
what is that pre-mill stands for as in we are not all knowing and
We humbly accepted that reality.
By the way my brother Dp what is this pre-mill?
Hope we don't ask to much from you and
We hope also thelat we are not offending you or somebody
who has the same beliefs as you do
Gobless always to you
And to all the people here in CC
believers or non believers