The Law Debacle Resolved

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KennethC

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#481
#481
Kefa54 said:
My point is that I can do nothing..NOTHING!! Without God and the Spirit.


Kefa
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You are right we can do nothing without God because without Him anything we do is as filthy rags, but with Him as His Holy Spirit abiding in us, the bible says all things are possible for us that believe.

Even the Apostle Paul uses "self" in Philippians 4:13, as he says; "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#482
#482
Shoshanah said:
Amen. The bible teaches that when we have true faith in God, it's His works in us, not our own.
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Yes it does. Sadly to many people in here and the world. Want to make it their own works. Not Gods works.
 
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KennethC

Guest
#484
#484
Kefa54 said:
I don't seek Gods will. Gods will is that I rest in him and his Grace. I rest and hear what HE wants me to do. I don't just go off in self strength and try to please him.

...30 “I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.


Kefa
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Did you realize your statement here contradicts the scripture that you just gave ???

You said you do not seek God's will, but the scripture here in John 5:30 says exactly that by Jesus that He seeks to do the will of God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#485
#485
zzz98 said:
isn't seeking Gods will a work? Ah, those pesky works
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No, Actually it is not. Jesus calls those the works of God

When jesus was asked, What works shall we do. Jesus reply. "it is the work of God we believe in the one he sent"


All of our works, flow from this faith otherwise, they are carna works. and not worth a nano second of time off out of hell.

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#486
#486
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Yes, but a work of faith is altogether different than works of law.
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Amen works of faith, seeking the spirit. Fulfills the law. because a work of faith out of love, will never break the law.
 
K

Kefa54

Guest
#487
#487
But my spiritual gift from God is helping people with addictions. I never would have picked that on my own. God gives me wisdom, strength, desire, and the resources to do this. It is all him. No..I don't have any formal training in addictions counseling. God runs 4 meetings a week through me. It is all him.

No...I don't do AA.

Kefa


KennethC said:
You are right we can do nothing without God because without Him anything we do is as filthy rags, but with Him as His Holy Spirit abiding in us, the bible says all things are possible for us that believe.

Even the Apostle Paul uses "self" in Philippians 4:13, as he says; "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
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PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#488
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
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#488
eternally-gratefull said:
No, Actually it is not. Jesus calls those the works of God
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I have a simple question. I see an old lady trying to cross the road. I go over and help them. This is a good work, motivated by love and concern for another. I am a child of God, a member of the Kingdom, bought by His blood.

It was a good deed. It was done by me, I saw the need, did the action and help the person. It was Jesus in me and His love finding expression through that act. I did not need a voice from heaven, or the Holy Spirit saying help that lady.

That is how love works, and love no matter who has it is given by God, part of His creative work in creation.

Yet it appears this action is of the flesh by your definition and not of the Lord.

Am I right or are you meaning something else?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#489
Jul 2, 2011
21,282
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#489
Allow me to take you a little further, for you are talking about your doing. My next breath, my next heart beat and all that I have been made to be is determined by our Heavenly Father, as it is with all human beings, with all the universe. This, some do not understand, When I am doing a plumbing job (I am not a plumber), or electrical or gardening or whatever, I ask Jesus to do it for me through me, and after I finish, I thank Him. I believe there are meny who have the same practice. I can do nothing, but God does things through us all, and always for us all. The vas majority of mankind goes through life under the impression that they do everything. Nothing goes by the Father's will.

He allows me to attempt to please Him in every way I understand from the Word, not from my own head or hear, from His Word. It would behoove all to think in these terms, but who am I to suggest such a course of life?

What I know of spiritual matters, I attribute to the understanding given me by the Holy Spirit. Miracles occur every day, some the type most folks would think a miracle, but the vast majority are those tha occur in our daily affairs when we hardly notice them, for for a believer, miracles are the norm.

I am saved by grace, but I will always give thanks in any manner I am able, by word, deed, and even offering myself as a servant. This is my due, not something I can generate. God knows our heart. If you are safe in the sight of God with your understanding, by all means continue, but do not judge another man's servant just because your personal understanding is stopped where you are. God bless you , and try to allow for others to understand in the manner God gives them, otherwise you are a judge and no longer under the authority of Jesus Christ......again, God bless you.


Kefa54 said:
My point is that I can do nothing..NOTHING!! Without God and the Spirit.


Kefa
Click to expand...
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#490
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#490
PeterJens said:
I have a simple question. I see an old lady trying to cross the road. I go over and help them. This is a good work, motivated by love and concern for another. I am a child of God, a member of the Kingdom, bought by His blood.

It was a good deed. It was done by me, I saw the need, did the action and help the person. It was Jesus in me and His love finding expression through that act. I did not need a voice from heaven, or the Holy Spirit saying help that lady.

That is how love works, and love no matter who has it is given by God, part of His creative work in creation.

Yet it appears this action is of the flesh by your definition and not of the Lord.

Am I right or are you meaning something else?
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Actually, the love in your heart is the voice of the holy spirit saying, 'help that lady'. When you do, that is obedience.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#491
#491
Kefa54 said:
But my spiritual gift from God is helping people with addictions. I never would have picked that on my own. God gives me wisdom, strength, desire, and the resources to do this. It is all him. No..I don't have any formal training in addictions counseling. God runs 4 meetings a week through me. It is all him.

No...I don't do AA.

Kefa
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There is nothing wrong with that as we are all called to do different things in the body, as I have been pulled every since I was young to go into ministry.

I was like Jonah at one point trying to run away from that calling, but at 29 I was pulled back by the Lord after hitting rock bottom to give myself fully to Him and what He wanted me to do.

Even then I wanted to do prophecy study but the Holy Spirit guided me and told me the teachings and warnings of Paul was needed more in this day and age as we are in the falling away of the church. After 6 years of in depth study of his epistles, early church history, and cross referencing of scriptures to make all of God's word align using original Greek and Hebrew study guides a lot was opened to me, thanks be to God.

Now for the past couple years I have been lead by the Spirit to do the prophecy study that I originally wanted to learn.

He is all wonderful and all loving !!!
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#492
Jul 2, 2011
21,282
6,567
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#492
Isa 50:7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#493
#493
PeterJens said:
I have a simple question. I see an old lady trying to cross the road. I go over and help them. This is a good work, motivated by love and concern for another. I am a child of God, a member of the Kingdom, bought by His blood.

It was a good deed. It was done by me, I saw the need, did the action and help the person. It was Jesus in me and His love finding expression through that act. I did not need a voice from heaven, or the Holy Spirit saying help that lady.

That is how love works, and love no matter who has it is given by God, part of His creative work in creation.

Yet it appears this action is of the flesh by your definition and not of the Lord.

Am I right or are you meaning something else?
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If your born again, And you have experienced Gods love, Yes, It is a work of God not your own work.

If not. No, it is a work of the flesh, Because you have no capacity to love,

ad even if your a christian, true child of God. you can do this NOT out of Agape love, and it can still be a work of the flesh (we wanted to be seen as helping, to puff ourselves up. To seek honor and glory for self) is what the eternal desire is, But the external words we say are we did it out of love .

we must remember, Gods love (agape) is not like mans love, Mans love is self servng, no matter how good it looks. Thats why the love of the world will never replace the love of God. and an unbeliever will continue to find that love he so desires to have,, but never find it, because the world will never love you like God can.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#494
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
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#494
eternally-gratefull said:

All of our works, flow from this faith otherwise, they are carna works. and not worth a nano second of time off out of hell.
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eg - Are you expressing good deeds are bad if done carnally? Is the ethic do nothing good unless it comes from faith?
And in your language what do you mean, from faith?

The problem with this language is it is discouraging anyone who wishes just to help another, which is an admirable thing, which the Lord would encourage, or would you rather everyone stopped doing good unless they were doing it in a christian context?
 
K

Kefa54

Guest
#495
#495
Where did the compassion for the old lady come from..nothing good comes out of me. That compassion is Christ in me. Not my good works.

I have been in the world, I have lived in the world. I have done and seen things done in the world. My flesh took me to places I can't even describe. Any good that comes out of me is Jesus through me.

Kefa



"I have a simple question. I see an old lady trying to cross the road. I go over and help them. This is a good work, motivated by love and concern for another. I am a child of God, a member of the Kingdom, bought by His blood."

PeterJens said:
I have a simple question. I see an old lady trying to cross the road. I go over and help them. This is a good work, motivated by love and concern for another. I am a child of God, a member of the Kingdom, bought by His blood.

It was a good deed. It was done by me, I saw the need, did the action and help the person. It was Jesus in me and His love finding expression through that act. I did not need a voice from heaven, or the Holy Spirit saying help that lady.

That is how love works, and love no matter who has it is given by God, part of His creative work in creation.

Yet it appears this action is of the flesh by your definition and not of the Lord.

Am I right or are you meaning something else?
Click to expand...
 
Z

zzz98

Guest
#496
#496
PeterJens said:
I have a simple question. I see an old lady trying to cross the road. I go over and help them. This is a good work, motivated by love and concern for another. I am a child of God, a member of the Kingdom, bought by His blood.

It was a good deed. It was done by me, I saw the need, did the action and help the person. It was Jesus in me and His love finding expression through that act. I did not need a voice from heaven, or the Holy Spirit saying help that lady.

That is how love works, and love no matter who has it is given by God, part of His creative work in creation.

Yet it appears this action is of the flesh by your definition and not of the Lord.

Am I right or are you meaning something else?
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yeah, I'm confused by this whole works thing. Some say do not do works so as to boast. Then these same ppl say "Oh, I do good works, but its not me its God" Which is it? Do works or not?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#497
#497
PeterJens said:
eg - Are you expressing good deeds are bad if done carnally? Is the ethic do nothing good unless it comes from faith?
And in your language what do you mean, from faith?

The problem with this language is it is discouraging anyone who wishes just to help another, which is an admirable thing, which the Lord would encourage, or would you rather everyone stopped doing good unless they were doing it in a christian context?
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Does the expression "bloody rags" mean anything to you? (maybe your bible says filthy rags)

Thats what God calls our carnal works. An unbeliever can ONLY produce these works. A believer can produce them, but can also produce works which bear fruit.

thats the problem with following laws. We do those deeds and think we are ok. and never focus on where those works come from and why we do them. We become blind to them, and just work. but these works never produce fruit, because they are not from God.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#498
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
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#498
eternally-gratefull said:
it is a work of the flesh, Because you have no capacity to love
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Which planet are you on? Which extreme version of Jesus do you follow?
Love is all around you, expressed by people who in no sense are "christian". If people have no capacity to love or be loved, then the gospel would never empathise with anybody, and the world would be dead.

Maybe you are not a dad. You will know the love that comes between parents and their young children, and it is most certainly not anything to do with faith.

Now my friend if you use language like this over such important issues as salvation, good works, righteousness and God, and you are wrong, I suggest you need to learn a lot more about life.

The way you write is like a book worm of theology, labeling a model built in your head, but missing the reality of things around you. With the best will in the world, have you ever fallen in love with anyone, or expressed love to anyone.

Do you say "I love you" to anyone in your life?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#499
#499
zzz98 said:
yeah, I'm confused by this whole works thing. Some say do not do works so as to boast. Then these same ppl say "Oh, I do good works, but its not me its God" Which is it? Do works or not?
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yeah, we know. you want to boast of how great you are.

Like the pharisee, you love boasting of how your not like the inner.

Maybe on day you will get on your knees and be like the tax collector. Then out of apreciation for gods love do so great works, you are amazed because you did not think God could work like that.

 
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Kefa54

Guest
#500
#500
I'm not talking about works here. I am describing the source of the works.
I might save 8000 children in my own strength.
If I don't know Christ? Who gets the Glory?

Kefa


zzz98 said:
yeah, I'm confused by this whole works thing. Some say do not do works so as to boast. Then these same ppl say "Oh, I do good works, but its not me its God" Which is it? Do works or not?
Click to expand...
 
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