The Law Debacle Resolved

[KennethC]

Can a person love GOD and do physical labor on Saturdays simply because he wants to?

This is exactly what I said before about going around in circles with you, as we have been down this road before and I already showed you by the Word of God how the Sabbath is now observed.

This is not a Sabbath thread so please lets stay on topic and not rehash an old discussion that has already been done between you and me. For there is no need to go through it again !!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Does an athlete, lets say using football because I'm most familiar with it.
At the beginning where there's the coin toss, the ref will say to play safe and have a fair game.
Now the ref never goes into detail of what "a fair game is". It's automatically assumed the coaches have taught the players the rules of the game.
Or look at boxing, the ref will say watch this and that and hae a fair fight, the ref does not go over the whole rule book.

The refs are just summing up the entirety of the rule book.

Just like if one follows these 2 commandments, they'll fall in line with observing Torah.

Now to add on that, if someone is not doing something as far as one of the particualar feasts or something along those lines, I do not believe it is ok from someone to judge that person for not doing so. But in the other case I do not believe it is ok from someone to judge someone who does follow the feasts, because ultimately the feasts were God given and not man made.

But if the two rules of the game are faith and love, there's no other rules to be concerned with, correct?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This is exactly what I said before about going around in circles with you, as we have been down this road before and I already showed you by the Word of God how the Sabbath is now observed.

This is not a Sabbath thread so please lets stay on topic and not rehash an old discussion that has already been done between you and me. For there is no need to go through it again !!!

Well I disagree that we've had this discussion before. I asked you before if it was OK if a man worked on Saturdays to support his family, and you said yes.

Now I'm asking if it is OK for a person to work on Saturdays just because he wants to. Let's say, because it gives him personal pleasure.

 

[KennethC]

But if the two rules of the game are faith and love, there's no other rules to be concerned with, correct?

Only if you are following those two rules as stated, else wise if not then it is just a false profession.

Hince why Apostle John said if a person says they love God but hates their brother they are a liar and no truth and no eternal life abides in them.

Paul, John, and James all three clearly show and define what a true faith and love in the Lord will look like in believers, and they also showed what a false or dead faith looks like !!!

 

[KennethC]

Well I disagree that we've had this discussion before. I asked you before if it was OK if a man worked on Saturdays to support his family, and you said yes.

Now I'm asking if it is OK for a person to work on Saturdays just because he wants to. Let's say, because it gives him personal pleasure.

No because that would be doing it for self, and we are never to do anything for self !!!

This is clearly stated and shown in the bible that doing for self is being sinful..................

 

[Biblelogic01]

It all depends on your motive. If you think GOD expects you to do it, then it is a work of law.

Your statement, and I quote "Actually, works of law are works for salvation. So if someone is promoting works of law then we have every right to say that they are saying that works of law have to be done to be saved."

That's not implying motive.

If someone asks me about the feasts, my answer would be that yes they should be observed because they are God given and not man made, and I'll probably teach a llittle about the background of the feasts, and leave it at that.
I am not saying it should be observed for a way to salvation or justifcation to righteousness.

You're implying that if someone teaches like this, they're doing it for works. When they're not.

 

[Biblelogic01]

But if the two rules of the game are faith and love, there's no other rules to be concerned with, correct?

How do you show faith and love?
How do you play fair in football?
How does a boxer know to compete fairly?

What I'm saying is that those short statements of the rules SUM up the entire rule book. The sum it up. Summarize. Shorten down to make it easier to understand/follow. Just because something is summed up or summarized, does not mean all the details are left out, that's what it's called a summary. A short statement without details.


Just as Jesus said those 2 commandments SUM up the whole of the Torah and prophets.
Meaning if you follow those 2 commandments of loving God and your nieghbor, the rest just basically falls into play.
Again the Spirit guides us in these things.

 

[crossnote]

This has nothing to do with before or after the Holy Spirit was given, as that is the lie of the Paulinians who take and try to say what the Lord said is not for all believers in Him. They completely reject the Great Commission of Matthew 28:19-20 that clearly states that what the Lord commanded and taught is for all believers.

Jesus lived under the Law, and taught as one under the law, so you are saying that is how we are to live and teach?
(The Great Commission was given after His resurrection and after Jesus had instructed His disciples for forty days in the Gospel message.)

Acts 1:3 (KJV) To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Your desparaging of Paul is typical of those that over emphasize the law for the Christian.

 

[zzz98]

Well I disagree that we've had this discussion before. I asked you before if it was OK if a man worked on Saturdays to support his family, and you said yes.

Now I'm asking if it is OK for a person to work on Saturdays just because he wants to. Let's say, because it gives him personal pleasure.

LOL, I wouldn't call that work!!!

 

[ember]

I have given an honest opinion........... this is not an unacceptable thing to do. To who m I refer is only known by whever they are..........I hope this is not bothering you. Now good bye.

well, if Jesus said we should not even call another believer a fool (even taking into account a bit of a different meaning in the original language) by whose authority do you refer to other believers as witches?

it seems you may believe it is ok to disregard the teaching of Jesus when it suits you

do you not see how wrong that is?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No because that would be doing it for self, and we are never to do anything for self !!!

This is clearly stated and shown in the bible that doing for self is being sinful..................

Well that's a works based gospel if I've ever heard one: Everything done for self is sin.

The only place in scripture where I can find that it says doing things to please ourselves is sinful is when our faith gives us the liberty to do things that causes a weaker brother to stumble. In fact, it also says there that we are blessed when our conscience doesn't condemn us for the things that we allow (like working on Saturdays because we want to).

The faith that you have, have with respect to yourself before God. Blessed is the one who does not pass judgment on himself by what he approves. But the one who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not do so from faith, and everything that is not from faith is sin. ​But we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Romans 14:22-23, 15:1​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Just as Jesus said those 2 commandments SUM up the whole of the Torah and prophets.
Meaning if you follow those 2 commandments of loving God and your nieghbor, the rest just basically falls into play.
Again the Spirit guides us in these things.

That IMO is a sly and underhanded way of saying that if you have faith and love, you will observe the law.

 

[ember]

Jesus Christ said to the hypocrites.....You rue the traditions of man as commandment from God."

Those who are against obeying God are actually putting forth a tradition of man as a commandment of their own saying it is God's... It is not.

Disobedience is likened to witchcraft by God............in other versions likened to idolatry, and so it goes.

and here we go with the name calling

Jesus also said to take the long out of your own eye

again, you are referring to believers in Jesus as rebellious to the point of witchcraft.

again, by whose authority? you certainly are not anyone's judge here, therefore, are you trying to stir up strife and get folks angry at your accusations?

this is not a place for private interpretations...this is a public forum..

 

[ember]

What if David said, "i am not perfect so why even try to sling these rocks at that giant. I will just sit here and read a scroll. God will deal with him." The whole time God wants David to do it. Somewhere David got the idea " all i have to do is believe and that's it."
This is not how God operates

God does not have one side throw rocks at the other...that is not how He operates

David knew who the enemy was...I don't think some folks here appreciate that

David did not throw a difference of opinion at the giant...yet, that is all that is going on here

whose house are you of if you wish to harm other believers?

this is really not good and no one should be calling names or making comparisons that do not illustrate the actual facts of this thread

 

[ember]

You have been teaching that no one is perfect. You even put down people who obey God. Who are you kidding?

that is a false allegation

you are twisting the words of eternally-gratefull...I have read enough of his posts to know he does not say what you are saying

 

[PeterJens]

No because that would be doing it for self, and we are never to do anything for self !!!
This is clearly stated and shown in the bible that doing for self is being sinful..................

Sinful and self are not connected. I eat, sleep and drink, all for myself. I cannot do these things for others and they are not sinful. The disciples were going through a field eating ears of corn and the pharisees questioned Jesus about it.
In short he said it was not a sin. Open ended statements are difficult for sin.

I have tried once to define sin as not hurting others, but judgements hurt others when done justly, saying something truthful can be upsetting but it is not a sin, though some religious people have made it so.

If one talks about sabbath keeping, there is a long tradition of people limiting work to a large degree.
But now with tv and electricity, we now have work done by people on a sunday by using the recource, or in hospital or ambulance people etc. It is therefore much more difficult to define hard and fast rules though the idea is rest 1 day in 7.

 

[PeterJens]

To all readers, eternally grateful has declared no one will be perfect until Jesus returns as a statement of faith, because I specifically questioned him on this, pointing out this was a statement of faith not attested to in scripture either positively or negatively.

I agree calling people from a coven is a manner of speaking talking about group actions in a negative way, but is certainly not appropriate here. It reminds me of the reformation where denominations started wars against each other.

I can see it happens when loose descriptions go too far. If you want to get kicked off, it is the easy way to go about it.

 

[Biblelogic01]

That IMO is a sly and underhanded way of saying that if you have faith and love, you will observe the law.

Ok, so lets go to your post where you state, "the spirit says to help a lady out" (or something along those lines).
As I said in a reply to that.
In Torah there are commands on to help one another out, and help those in needs.
The Spirit knows the Torah.
So based off of the command of helping someone in need, yes the Spirit is going nudge someone to help a lady who needs help for whatever.
So if one is following the commands of loving God and loving their neighbor in the Spirit, yes it's going to lead to the same things that are taught in Torah because that's where the command of loving God and your neighbor comes from. Jesus was quoting Torah when said those were to 2 greatest commands. He wasn't making something new up.

 

[crossnote]

To all readers, eternally grateful has declared no one will be perfect until Jesus returns as a statement of faith, because I specifically questioned him on this, pointing out this was a statement of faith not attested to in scripture either positively or negatively.

Philippians 3:12-16 (HCSB)
12 Not that I have already reached [the goal] or am already fully mature, but I make every effort to take hold of it because I also have been taken hold of by Christ Jesus.
13 Brothers, I do not consider myself to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: forgetting what is behind and reaching forward to what is ahead,
14 I pursue as my goal the prize promised by God's heavenly call in Christ Jesus.
15 Therefore, all who are mature should think this way. And if you think differently about anything, God will reveal this to you also.
16 In any case, we should live up to whatever [truth] we have attained.

Besides, have you met any perfect Christian?
Often times the meaning 'mature' is taken to mean perfect.

 

[PeterJens]

Deaf, dumb and blind............it seems to be a coven, my honest opinion.

Do you know what a coven actually is? Just because people group together, you cannot fall for the lets blast them.

This is the oldest trick in the book, wind some up so they blast something off without thinking about it, fall into sin, and loose the discussion. Welcome to spiritual reality 101. All I can say is you must be out of your league to go here.

This is childs play until you start dealing with really evil insane muslims, who I have dealt with day after day. You learn how not to be provoked, but it does not come easy. Honest opinions unfortunately do not wash in these situations unless you have some real evidence of sin or problems. I do not see any here other than miss-understanding and exaguration.