The Law Debacle Resolved

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Grandpa said:
So then why didn't you answer Crossnote? How many good works does one need for assurance of eternal life?

Again, passively condemning statements is all you have.
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I did answer him and I am not condemning nobody so please do not pass that falsehood on me.

Telling the truth in God's word to show others the proper way we are to be in the faith is not condemning people. If a person is convicted by what they hear then that just means there are areas they still need to work on, and the good news is that the Holy Spirit will help and strengthen them in this area.

Quantity has no bearing whatsoever !!!
 
Grandpa said:
So then why didn't you answer Crossnote? How many good works does one need for assurance of eternal life?

Again, passively condemning statements is all you have.
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I think that's the modus operandi of some I've seen commenting here. Deny that the fruit of the spirit is keeping the 10 commandments, but underhandedly imply that it is, thus inducing fear and guilt which quenches faith and brings people into bondage to law.
 
KennethC said:
I did answer him and I am not condemning nobody so please do not pass that falsehood on me.

Telling the truth in God's word to show others the proper way we are to be in the faith is not condemning people. If a person is convicted by what they hear then that just means there are areas they still need to work on, and the good news is that the Holy Spirit will help and strengthen them in this area.

Quantity has no bearing whatsoever !!!
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Quantity, Quality

God demands perfection. That's HIS requirement.

YOU have failed. I have failed. We have no hope apart from Christ.

Since we are both 100% condemned, and will be for all eternity. We are either 100% saved the moment we place SAVING faith in Christ. or we are doomed forever with no hope.

If your going to preach salvation can be lost. Your BOUND (required) To show what is the Quantity of work separates a saved person from an unsaved person. Since your premise of salvation is based on what one does or does not do. There is NO WAY around it.
 
KennethC said:
It is not nonsense as there is multiple scriptures that says that we are created to do, continue doing, and even to provoke others to do good deeds.

Why do you think the bible speaks on different rewards depending on faithfulness to the Lord, and even no reward to those who were least faithful as their works will be completely burned up ???

The problem is still confusing self-righteous with doing His righteousness in our lives; There is a big difference !!!
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Doing righteousness is faith in Christ and loving mankind. Any other work viewed as doing righteousness is a work of self righteousness.
 
atwhatcost said:
Seriously, y'all! Don't you ever get tired of arguing the same points with the same people? Are you really expecting a miracle and suddenly your opponent sees life just like you do? Or is it sheer ego?

And this isn't giving you permission to spend another 50 pages convincing me that you are justified.
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The underlying importance of these threads is that many people who are weak in faith read these threads in quiet anonymity. They need to see and be assured that God's saving grace in Jesus Christ is irrevocable. Any talk otherwise is heretical, and such heresies must be countered and condemned for everyone's sake.
 
KennethC said:
Seeing good deeds as filthy rags is before one is born again, and we can know this because in Hebrews quotes how God is not unjust to forget our good deeds. (Hebrews 6:10)

And it says here we should all continue in good works and love tell the full assurance of the hope to the end and not become sluggish.
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Amen to this, but it has nothing to do with salvation.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Doing righteousness is faith in Christ and loving mankind. Any other work viewed as doing righteousness is a work of self righteousness.
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Doing in the faith as the Lord taught and commanded is doing His righteousness, and the Apostles especially Paul shows this as he expounded on what the Lord had taught.

Again Paul clearly stated that no other doctrine is to be taught except that of what the Lord had already gave, and anybody who brings another gospel or doctrine is accursed. These are Paul's words not mine, and John confirms this as well in 1 John 1:10.

Paul says we can only build on that foundation, not teach otherwise !!!
 
Utah said:
Amen to this, but it has nothing to do with salvation.
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Never did say it does as works are only proof of one who is saved unto eternal life through Christ, not what does the saving.

There can be no Holy Spirit abiding in a person without proof that He is, and Jesus clearly shows and tells us this !!!
 
KennethC said:
Never did say it does as works are only proof of one who is saved unto eternal life through Christ, not what does the saving.

There can be no Holy Spirit abiding in a person without proof that He is, and Jesus clearly shows and tells us this !!!
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That's confusing.

Works prove one is saved, But one can work (which proves he is saved) and not end up in heaven.

 
KennethC said:
Doing in the faith as the Lord taught and commanded is doing His righteousness, and the Apostles especially Paul shows this as he expounded on what the Lord had taught.

Again Paul clearly stated that no other doctrine is to be taught except that of what the Lord had already gave, and anybody who brings another gospel or doctrine is accursed. These are Paul's words not mine, and John confirms this as well in 1 John 1:10.

Paul says we can only build on that foundation, not teach otherwise !!!
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You're just describing works of law. Your phrases "as the Lord taught and commanded" and "what the Lord had already gave" are just code words for keeping the 10 commandments.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
You're just describing works of law. Your phrases "as the Lord taught and commanded" and "what the Lord had already gave" are just code words for keeping the 10 commandments.
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No they are not code words for works of the law, and this is where we have our issue, because you think what Jesus taught and commanded is works of the law.

That is completely not true as the works of the law is only slated to those who try to keep all 613 written ordinances of the Mosaic law to be justified by.

Not those by faith and love follow what the Lord said as this is being justified through Him !!!
 
KennethC said:
No they are not code words for works of the law, and this is where we have our issue, because you think what Jesus taught and commanded is works of the law.

That is completely not true as the works of the law is only slated to those who try to keep all 613 written ordinances of the Mosaic law to be justified by.

Not those by faith and love follow what the Lord said as this is being justified through Him !!!
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No this is wrong,

we have an issue because a work is a work is a works, whether it be works of the law. Works of God. or any work.
 
of course Ken has me in ignore, even though everyone he is talking to is telling him the same thing I have told him..

so he sees nothing I say.. Oh well. God will still speak to him somehow. We can hope anyway
 
KennethC said:
No they are not code words for works of the law, and this is where we have our issue, because you think what Jesus taught and commanded is works of the law.

That is completely not true as the works of the law is only slated to those who try to keep all 613 written ordinances of the Mosaic law to be justified by.

Not those by faith and love follow what the Lord said as this is being justified through Him !!!
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I notice that you didn't say "No they are not code words for keeping the 10 commandments" (which is what I said), but instead said "No they are not code words for works of the law."

That's an underhanded tactic to try to steer away from the fact that you do indeed teach that if a person is truly saved (s)he will follow and observe the 10 commandments.

Why don't you be a man and just come out and say it?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
I notice that you didn't say "No they are not code words for keeping the 10 commandments" (which is what I said), but instead said "No they are not code words for works of the law."

That's an underhanded tactic to try to steer away from the fact that you do indeed teach that if a person is truly saved (s)he will follow and observe the 10 commandments.

Why don't you be a man and just come out and say it?
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That is not a underhanded tactic as you are the one who started off saying works of the law, and here is your opening quote:

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Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead
You're just describing works of law. Your phrases "as the Lord taught and commanded" and "what the Lord had already gave" are just code words for keeping the 10 commandments.

I did not mention the 10 Commandments because like I told you before until you do research and understand the difference in written ordinance form and moral form (Spiritual) I am not going round and round with you on that.

I gave you a chart showing how the 10 moral commandments are upheld by believers in the new covenant, and how the Lord Jesus when He said those who keep His commandments He mentions like in Revelation some of the 10. Even Apostle Paul when mentioning those who will not inherit eternal life he mentions in that list those who transgress those 10 commandments.

Learn to discern between works of the law (written ordinances keeping), and the moral law of God contained within the perfect law of liberty through Christ and the 10 Commandments.
 
Utah said:
Lol. Why is that funny? That's not supposed to be funny but it makes me laugh every time I read it. :D

Hang in there, EG! :cool:
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Well first it is not everybody so that is a lie, and second being part of the majority is not always a good thing.

Especially since we are in the end times and the falling away is what is taking place now, as Jesus Himself said that when He returns will He find any faith left on earth. This is because bad teaching is on the rise and the truth is being taught less and less do to confirming to doctrines of man.

So being in the majority does not make it truth !!!
 
KennethC said:
That is not a underhanded tactic as you are the one who started off saying works of the law, and here is your opening quote:

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead
You're just describing works of law. Your phrases "as the Lord taught and commanded" and "what the Lord had already gave" are just code words for keeping the 10 commandments.

I did not mention the 10 Commandments because like I told you before until you do research and understand the difference in written ordinance form and moral form (Spiritual) I am not going round and round with you on that.

I gave you a chart showing how the 10 moral commandments are upheld by believers in the new covenant, and how the Lord Jesus when He said those who keep His commandments He mentions like in Revelation some of the 10. Even Apostle Paul when mentioning those who will not inherit eternal life he mentions in that list those who transgress those 10 commandments.

Learn to discern between works of the law (written ordinances keeping), and the moral law of God contained within the perfect law of liberty through Christ and the 10 Commandments.
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You're simply trying to avoid disclosure by relabeling the 10 commandments as THE MORAL LAW and the perfect law of liberty in Christ.
 
KennethC said:
Well first it is not everybody so that is a lie, and second being part of the majority is not always a good thing.

Especially since we are in the end times and the falling away is what is taking place now, as Jesus Himself said that when He returns will He find any faith left on earth. This is because bad teaching is on the rise and the truth is being taught less and less do to confirming to doctrines of man.

So being in the majority does not make it truth !!!
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That's why I am glad to be in the minority who enter by the narrow Gate (grace alone through faith alone in the work of Christ)

I Pray one day you join us and climb aboard the train bound for heaven driven by the Holy Spirit.
 
Romans 6:7-22

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; *death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For *sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

It's not that hard to know Paul's ministry.
 
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