How can God justify the ungodly and still maintain His integrity to His law?
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It's not heresy. God ALLOWED the rebellion in heaven, of Lucifer and some of the other angels. Who do you think allowed the serpent into the Garden of Eden? It didn't end up there of it's own accord--it had to be ALLOWED in by God. God ALLOWED Adam and Eve to willfully sin, by eating of the tree which they had expressly been told NOT to eat from. He gave them free will to either rebel and do what they wanted, or to obey him and resist the serpent's wiles. If sin wasn't part of God's plan for this world and the people in it, then there would have been no need for a savior to die on a cross for those sins.. Sorry to burst your bubble, but sin BEGAN in heaven with Lucifer's rebellion and God's allowance of it. Then God dealt them their punishment: losing their eternal place in heaven and being cast out of heaven to become demons, and wreak destruction and havoc on the earth wherever they can..
No, I am innocent (not guilty), but I have suffered the ill-effects of your sin.
Your drunkenness was unknown to me; so I'm innocent.
To be condemned means to be proven guilty and deserving punishment.
To suffer the consequences of another person's sin cannot be called condemnation.
Should we both survive, and it is proven that you were at the wheel, and that I was unaware that you were DUI, you will be condemned(tried and imprisoned), and I will be set free.
Your drunkenness was unknown to me; so I'm innocent.
To be condemned means to be proven guilty and deserving punishment.
To suffer the consequences of another person's sin cannot be called condemnation.
Should we both survive, and it is proven that you were at the wheel, and that I was unaware that you were DUI, you will be condemned(tried and imprisoned), and I will be set free.
Yes, it's not his fault, but because we all share Adam's life, after the fall, we belong to a condemned race. Here's Paul:
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin (our "bent-to-self") entered the world through one man (Adam), and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned (in Adam)...
Because we share in Adam's fallen life, we die. If it weren't for Christ's redemption our death would be eternal. That means no heaven!
Verse 13 for before the law was given, sin (our bent) was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command...
Adam transgressed because he knowingly sinned against a command of God. But Adam's ancestors, those between the fall of mankind and Moses (where the law was given) were ignorant regarding transgression. So they weren't guilty of transgression, yet they were dying. Why? They shared Adam's condemned, fallen life.
1 Cor 15:22 "In Adam all die"
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin (our "bent-to-self") entered the world through one man (Adam), and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned (in Adam)...
Because we share in Adam's fallen life, we die. If it weren't for Christ's redemption our death would be eternal. That means no heaven!
Verse 13 for before the law was given, sin (our bent) was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command...
Adam transgressed because he knowingly sinned against a command of God. But Adam's ancestors, those between the fall of mankind and Moses (where the law was given) were ignorant regarding transgression. So they weren't guilty of transgression, yet they were dying. Why? They shared Adam's condemned, fallen life.
1 Cor 15:22 "In Adam all die"
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B
I have to disagree on part of this. You say "we are born without God's spirit." That is NOT TRUE. Yes it is God CREATED us in HIS image no he created mankind in his image as in ADAM, he literally breathed life into Adam and Eve, yes so they would become LIVING SOULS so obviously we ARE born with his spirit, since he is our creator.NO, we are born living souls, from our parents, spiritually DEAD because of original sin, remember that? back in the garden? where as God said they would surely DIE? It is the spirit that died in human kind and left God to have to SET HIS SPIRIT upon those he chose who lived righteous... then the whole sacrifice thing... to atone for sin... then Jesus... the final sacrifice who kept the law perfect and GAVE himself up so we could DIE in HIM and be born again... BY HIS SPIRIT! Everyone who hasn't done that is SPIRITUALLY DEAD... but still a living soul. 
Second, your comment about our "fallen natures disqualifies us for heaven." NO again, the fallen nature DOES disqualify mankind from heaven, ONLY born again believers go to heaven, and they are no longer <supposed to be> subject to the fallen nature as when born again they have a NEW NATURE which is Christ's and they are <supposed to> walk in the sanctifying process of the Spirit born new nature. Once again,that is NOT true. God MADE us sinful and imperfect for a reason. God did not MAKE US sinful and imperfect, humankind was CREATED PERFECT, original sin cause spiritual death and the eons of progressively downspiral of human nature AWAY from God's original creation. None of us deserves heaven, in fact we all deserve to end up in hell. Once a sinner repents of their sin and accepts and acknowledges Jesus as their Lord and Savior, then they WILL go to heaven. Because they get BORN AGAIN and receive a new NATURE!!! It is the UNsaved and UNrepentant who qualify for hell. As long as we are obedient and repentant, we will enter heaven.
Third, we are NOT a "condemned race." Um yes we are, without Christ, we are condemned. Without being born again every human being is of SATAN, he is their FATHER, and they go where "daddy" goes. The one who IS condemned, is satan. He rebelled against God and was unrepentant. He knows he's condemned. We, as saved believers, are NOT condemned to satan's fate. Because BELEIVERS have a NEW NATURE which is born again thru JESUS!!![/QUOTE]
MY comments in Black, You have some theology problems Bluebug... apparently you do not understand the distinctions between soul and spirit and seem to completely omit original sin from your explanation.
Second, your comment about our "fallen natures disqualifies us for heaven." NO again, the fallen nature DOES disqualify mankind from heaven, ONLY born again believers go to heaven, and they are no longer <supposed to be> subject to the fallen nature as when born again they have a NEW NATURE which is Christ's and they are <supposed to> walk in the sanctifying process of the Spirit born new nature. Once again,that is NOT true. God MADE us sinful and imperfect for a reason. God did not MAKE US sinful and imperfect, humankind was CREATED PERFECT, original sin cause spiritual death and the eons of progressively downspiral of human nature AWAY from God's original creation. None of us deserves heaven, in fact we all deserve to end up in hell. Once a sinner repents of their sin and accepts and acknowledges Jesus as their Lord and Savior, then they WILL go to heaven. Because they get BORN AGAIN and receive a new NATURE!!! It is the UNsaved and UNrepentant who qualify for hell. As long as we are obedient and repentant, we will enter heaven.
Third, we are NOT a "condemned race." Um yes we are, without Christ, we are condemned. Without being born again every human being is of SATAN, he is their FATHER, and they go where "daddy" goes. The one who IS condemned, is satan. He rebelled against God and was unrepentant. He knows he's condemned. We, as saved believers, are NOT condemned to satan's fate. Because BELEIVERS have a NEW NATURE which is born again thru JESUS!!![/QUOTE]
MY comments in Black, You have some theology problems Bluebug... apparently you do not understand the distinctions between soul and spirit and seem to completely omit original sin from your explanation.
Then why were the folks between Adam and Moses, where the law was posted, dying? Death isn't condemnation? Remember, Adam and Eve had conditional immortality. As long as they obeyed God (concerning the tree) they had immortality. Once they sinned they lost immortality. That's guilt resulting in condemnation.
The folks between Adam and Moses were dying, but not because they sinned like Adam. They were dying because they shared Adam's fallen life.
The folks between Adam and Moses were dying, but not because they sinned like Adam. They were dying because they shared Adam's fallen life.
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B
I am not so sure.... Kenneth's post disqualifies original sin... but by the same token, a baby born with sin nature who has not opportunity to be SINFUL would be innocent... And I have taken/given comfort to those who have lost infant children in this manner. To say there is an AGE of accountability... that is tradition and perhaps not exactly accurate because fallen mankind does produce individuals who never develop "conscious" or "intellect" beyond very young children... yet even very small children will LIE, STEAL, be SELFISH... etc. Sooo, admittedly there is some unresolved question there... which doesn't even apply to me... cuz I do not fall into the "innocent or under-age of accountability" category.
Not entirely different. God KNEW Adam and Eve would sin. He knew they'd be tricked by the serpent into eating the fruit of the tree. He also knew that because of their sin, they would one day die, no longer having immortal life. He allowed sin, in the form of the serpent, to enter the garden of Eden.
Oh and btw, in my previous post where I said we are all made in God's image, you said that wasn't true, that MANKIND is made in God's image.. Well, we ARE mankind..lol.. We all have the breath of God in us BECAUSE HE CREATED US. You are right about one thing: original mankind (Adam & Eve) WAS created perfect, but God knew they wouldn't stay perfect for very long. And I never said God MADE sin, I said he made US sinful and imperfect. Every person born from A&E on down to today, is a sinful being. Why? Because all the generations of children born from Eve, have her sin visited upon them.
The sins of the original parents are passed down to their children.
K
Well there is a scripture in the OT that speaks on the age of accountability, and like I said I have to find it again because it clearly shows until a person reaches that age they will not be held accountable and condemned if they die under that age as an infant.
I will try and find it again.............
K
These are not the exact one's I was looking for but these two do show age of accountability in them..............(Deuteronomy 1:39, Isaiah 7:16)
Also another example was the infant child of David and Bathsheba death, and in 2 Samuel 12:23 David says he will go to him but that the child can never come to him. This would only be if David is talking about when he dies he will see the child in heaven.
G
New American Standard Bible
"Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?"
New American Standard Bible
I (Infant/didn't know left from right)was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came(age of accountability), sin became alive and I died;
New American Standard Bible
"But now he has died(Davids infant son); why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
The age of accountability is taught in the scriptures. Children can sin and do sin but it is not held accountable to them until they understand.
"Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?"
New American Standard Bible
I (Infant/didn't know left from right)was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came(age of accountability), sin became alive and I died;
New American Standard Bible
"But now he has died(Davids infant son); why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
The age of accountability is taught in the scriptures. Children can sin and do sin but it is not held accountable to them until they understand.