How can God justify the ungodly and still maintain His integrity to His law?

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FreeNChrist

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Jesus as God partook of the same flesh and blood as we have. There's only one type of flesh & blood and that is what we received from father Adam after the fall.

Turn to 1 Cor 15:50 "Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God"

Why? Because the humanity we received from Adam has been polluted with iniquity, the love of self. If you take flesh and blood to heaven, heaven will become a living hell. That's why Lucifer was not allowed to remain in heaven once he rebelled against God's agape love.

By assuming our "flesh & blood", Christ, as the son of man, partook of a condemned life - a ruined life. That's why at the cross that life died eternally. He took our curse by assuming our corporate, fallen life.

Anyone who knowingly teaches opposite to this gospel, according to John, is of the spirit of anti-Christ*. Notice I said "knowingly"!!!

So we must be very careful what we present as the gospel, less we preach "another gospel".

* For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. (2 John 1:7)


Okay, enough of this nonsense. There is nothing inherently sinful about the human body. That flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God is not because there is something wrong with the human body.
 
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VioletReigns

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Okay, enough of this nonsense. There is nothing inherently sinful about the human body. That flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God is not because there is something wrong with the human body. "Flesh and blood" there refers to fallen man, to the unregenerate.
The physical body itself is just the vessel in which the spirit of Christ dwells, there isn't anything bad about the human body. It's the carnal mind that is an enemy of God. There is nothing in the fleshly mind (intellect, logic) that can receive anything from God. It is completely corrupt because it is not stable and is like a sea tossed all over the place by conditioning, instinctiveness, emotions, physical senses, etc.

We walk by faith in Jesus Christ alone, not by sight or human reasoning.
 
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Okay, enough of this nonsense. There is nothing inherently sinful about the human body. That flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God is not because there is something wrong with the human body.

There's something wrong with our humanity, which is composed of flesh & blood. If not, then you do not need Christ's deliverance from under law to under grace. That would infer that you are a holy Joe and you can stand before God and His law and tell Him how righteous you are....Is that your point?
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest

There's something wrong with our humanity, which is composed of flesh & blood. If not, then you do not need Christ's deliverance from under law to under grace. That would infer that you are a holy Joe and you can stand before God and His law and tell Him how righteous you are....Is that your point?
Animals are composed of flesh and blood, and yet that are not humanity. There is nothing inherently sinful about the human body.
 
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The physical body itself is just the vessel in which the spirit of Christ dwells, there isn't anything bad about the human body....
Paul (who, BTW, is inspired):

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find....20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. .... 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man (i.e, the converted mind/heart). 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind (my will power), and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Notice where nothing good dwells:

1] "in my flesh" or "in me"

2] "sin...dwells in me"

3] "in my members"




 
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For any SDA here, I remember a quote from Ellen White that agrees with Paul:

"Through sin the whole human organism is deranged, the mind is perverted, the imagination corrupted. Sin has degraded the faculties of the soul. Temptations from without find an answering chord within the heart, and the feet turn imperceptibly toward evil."
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
Paul (who, BTW, is inspired):

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find....20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. .... 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man (i.e, the converted mind/heart). 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind (my will power), and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Notice where nothing good dwells:

1] "in my flesh" or "in me"

2] "sin...dwells in me"

3] "in my members"
Flesh (sarx) does not refer to the human body. Do a study on it, it will go a long way towards correcting many of your mistaken notions.
 
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Flesh (sarx) does not refer to the human body. Do a study on it, it will go a long way towards correcting many of your mistaken notions.
So when Paul says "sin in me", where would that reside? In his finger? In his brain, where? Is it something a doctor can remove. or has sin polluted the whole man (his humanity)?

Ps 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
 
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Ps 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
At the moment of conception David's cells were shapen in iniquity. Remember iniquity is a condition....So our humanity is polluted with the principle of "self". This is the predicament we find ourselves in as children of Adam.
 
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FreeNChrist

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So when Paul says "sin in me", where would that reside? In his finger? In his brain, where? Is it something a doctor can remove. or has sin polluted the whole man (his humanity)?

Ps 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Such a way of thinking is to fall prey to the same dualistic concept of Greek Platonism that is as wrong today as it was when first introduced.
 
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Remember that I said Christ, as God, assumed our humanity (flesh). What do I mean by assumed?

I mean that as God, He borrowed that which was not His by native right. He took upon Himself something that was ours, not His. And He temporarily did this in order to redeem us.

Evidence:

2 Cor 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died... 16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh (i.e., according to his fallen humanity); even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ (by faith is inferred), he is a new creation; the old things passed away; behold, all things have become new.

1] Notice that when Christ, as the son of man, died, all men died in Him.

2] Notice that Christ was known (past tense, refers to before the resurrection) "according to the flesh"

3] But now, after the resurrection, Christ wasn't known according to the flesh. Why? He left "the body of sin" (our humanity polluted with iniquity) in the eternal grave.

4] That's because Christ was raised with a glorified, immortal, sinless humanity indwelt by agape love. In Him we have a new creation. He is the last Adam. In Him we stand perfect, by faith, before God and His law in the most holy place.
 
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Such a way of thinking is to fall prey to ....
Your way of thinking means there's something good in us. In fact that's why some Christians teach that when a believer dies something transcends death and, without the resurrection, goes directly to heaven. That something must be good because nothing with sin in it can enter heaven.

So what part of you is naturally holy that it doesn't need to be changed at the resurrection? Please do tell - I am all ears!
 
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FreeNChrist

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Your way of thinking means there's something good in us. In fact that's why some Christians teach that when a believer dies something transcends death and, without the resurrection, goes directly to heaven. That something must be good because nothing with sin in it can enter heaven.

So what part of you is naturally holy that it doesn't need to be changed at the resurrection? Please do tell - I am all ears!
Is "us" our body??
 
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Your way of thinking means there's something good in us. In fact that's why some Christians teach that when a believer dies something transcends death and, without the resurrection, goes directly to heaven. That something must be good because nothing with sin in it can enter heaven.

So what part of you is naturally holy that it doesn't need to be changed at the resurrection? Please do tell - I am all ears!
Let me remind you of what Paul stated:

"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God....we will all be changed."

Why changed?

Because our humanity is polluted with self-love. At the resurrection we receive our new creation, in Christ Jesus in the heavenly places, in an instant and at the last trumpet, for the trumpet shall sound and we will be raised in perfection. That happens at the resurrection.

When you, a child of Adam, dies nothing survives because everything in you has been touched by sin and therefore everything is you is polluted. As Paul said, "I know that in me dwells nothing good."

If there's something good, then you don't need Christ because He came to save 100% sinners....
 
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You tell me! What's good in you that transcends death without the resurrection?

You've put yourself in a corner. The best thing you can do is agree with Paul "For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh"
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest


Let me remind you of what Paul stated:

"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God....we will all be changed."

Why changed?

Because our humanity is polluted with self-love. At the resurrection we receive our new creation, in Christ Jesus in the heavenly places, in an instant and at the last trumpet, for the trumpet shall sound and we will be raised in perfection.

That happens at the resurrection. Whey you die nothing survives because everything in you has been touched by sin and therefore everything is you is polluted. As Paul said, "I know that in me dwells nothing good."

If there's something good, then you don't need Christ because He came to save 100% sinners....
You're making an assumption based in your need to believe in a sinful human body, so that your premise that "Jesus had a fallen sinful nature” theory will work.
 
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FreeNChrist

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You tell me! What's good in you that transcends death without the resurrection?

You've put yourself in a corner. The best thing you can do is agree with Paul "For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh"
The best thing you could do is do as I suggested and study Paul's use of sarx. That is if you are actually interested in the truth.
 
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You're making an assumption based in your need to believe in a sinful human body, so that your premise that "Jesus had a fallen sinful nature” theory will work.

That's not an answer.....Stop procrastinating. :)

My question is "what part of you is naturally holy that it doesn't need to be changed at the resurrection?"
 
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FreeNChrist

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That's not an answer.....Stop procrastinating. :)

My question is "what part of you is naturally holy that it doesn't need to be changed at the resurrection?"
That is my answer.
 
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The best thing you could do is do as I suggested and study Paul's use of sarx. That is if you are actually interested in the truth.


Sarx: the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God