I have picked up that there are preconceived assumptions before honestly discerning what is being written. When I first joined CC I saw this and became quite discouraged. The question in my mind were 'how can people that claim faith in the same God be so argumentative?' Where does this begin? I am in the process of attempting to figure it out right now, and have many questions in my mind and heart, and are becoming more skeptical to share my faith in God, thinking that I might be a negative assistant to what I think isn't right.
The Law Debacle Resolved
- Thread starter JaumeJ
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Very simple. When you and others teach the other gospel of establishing righteousness through works of law, godly men and women rise up against it.
And some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom prescribed by Moses, you cannot be saved.” And after there was no little strife and debate by Paul and Barnabas against them, they appointed Paul and Barnabas and some others from among them to go up to the apostles and elders in Jerusalem concerning this issue. Acts 15:1-2
Yes it is very humbling. We are all so fragile. The models we build help us cope and make sense of things. It takes time to change them and that is fair, as they are also important.
Jesus impressed me because he spoke in parables, that show relationships or points in a picture form or relationship setting.
Very often that setting is the thing we miss. Like this discussion, a man is bleeding to death, you do not think am I responding in the flesh or the Spirit, you just try and help. It sounds very legalistic to want to know the definitions rather than just be active. Our problem is often we have too many excuses and not enough heart, nothing to do with flesh or spirit. We always need more love, heart, and Spirit, and too often consider safety and avoiding hurt, when we are called just to act.
Jesus impressed me because he spoke in parables, that show relationships or points in a picture form or relationship setting.
Very often that setting is the thing we miss. Like this discussion, a man is bleeding to death, you do not think am I responding in the flesh or the Spirit, you just try and help. It sounds very legalistic to want to know the definitions rather than just be active. Our problem is often we have too many excuses and not enough heart, nothing to do with flesh or spirit. We always need more love, heart, and Spirit, and too often consider safety and avoiding hurt, when we are called just to act.
Now I'm teaching "establishing righteousness through works of law?" I thought we were friends? What in the world? Where on earth did that come from? I'm beginning to understand how agitation begins. This is a shameful assumption on your part, and now you have started a controversy with me. Where and what are the false doctrines here? What is really being manifested here? What is the fruit of this? 
This just does not fit. The apostles were dealing with saying people must be Jews and follow Jewish customs to be in the kingdom.
People saying as a result of faith in Jesus, having works of faith, obeying Jesus's commands, you are preaching bondage to the law, is just a mistake. Which law are we talking about, and where is the letter? Love everyone, whenever and wherever you are. Love God the most. Now this is law with no letter. It is a law of approach or attitude. It is not the Mosaic law, which is a shadow of the true content of communion with Jesus.
Now you even believe this to be true. Which logical point do you disagree with?
If you cannot find one, then your statement is mistaken, though your conviction will remain. I have met this before, with the mentally unstable, those set up for a battle but picking the wrong enemy.
People saying as a result of faith in Jesus, having works of faith, obeying Jesus's commands, you are preaching bondage to the law, is just a mistake. Which law are we talking about, and where is the letter? Love everyone, whenever and wherever you are. Love God the most. Now this is law with no letter. It is a law of approach or attitude. It is not the Mosaic law, which is a shadow of the true content of communion with Jesus.
Now you even believe this to be true. Which logical point do you disagree with?
If you cannot find one, then your statement is mistaken, though your conviction will remain. I have met this before, with the mentally unstable, those set up for a battle but picking the wrong enemy.
Shashanah,
You wrote a post (#1347) and mentioned me along with a few others in that post. Eternally-Grateful responded to you but he does not include me when he wrote the above words. He and I both know that, I just want to be sure you know that. For EG, me and like-minded, like-spirited people, we rejoice in knowing that God's grace is sufficient; we leave it all at the Cross and the Empty tomb. Its what Jesus did, not what we do.
You wrote a post (#1347) and mentioned me along with a few others in that post. Eternally-Grateful responded to you but he does not include me when he wrote the above words. He and I both know that, I just want to be sure you know that. For EG, me and like-minded, like-spirited people, we rejoice in knowing that God's grace is sufficient; we leave it all at the Cross and the Empty tomb. Its what Jesus did, not what we do.
E
it means you was walking along the right path, and before you arrived at its destination, you fell off the path.
Mny are on the path to being saved by grace, they have the word in their hands, but have not quite recieved in in faith and repentance yet, and before they make it, they fall off.
If does not mean they were saved and lost it. It means they never had it,
If it means anything else. (like we can lose salvation) then it means we must earn salvation by doing whatever it takes to not fall of. we rely on our own power to keep us on track, ad not Gods power to keep us on track.
No, the people Paul was opposing were teaching that believers must observe the law of Moses to be saved. Paul said following that doctrine would cut one off from grace.
What we have here essentially is people teaching the same thing, but who are not honest enough to come out and admit it. They openly deny that the law must be kept, but then imply through their crafty words and practiced deception that it must be kept in order to be saved (by saying those who are truly saved will keep the law), which induces fear and guilt, which quenches faith thereby bringing bondage to the law.
What we have here essentially is people teaching the same thing, but who are not honest enough to come out and admit it. They openly deny that the law must be kept, but then imply through their crafty words and practiced deception that it must be kept in order to be saved (by saying those who are truly saved will keep the law), which induces fear and guilt, which quenches faith thereby bringing bondage to the law.
Now I'm teaching "establishing righteousness through works of law?" I thought we were friends? What in the world? Where on earth did that come from? I'm beginning to understand how agitation begins. This is a shameful assumption on your part, and now you have started a controversy with me. Where and what are the false doctrines here? What is really being manifested here? What is the fruit of this?
G
And those crafty words and deceptions are easily seen by believers who know Grace.
Its like an avatar on this site:
"I am not saying its aliens, but..........................its aliens!"
" No one is saying salvation by works,but......................its salvation by works!"
Pretty easy to see for those who study His mind a bit.
Its like an avatar on this site:
"I am not saying its aliens, but..........................its aliens!"
" No one is saying salvation by works,but......................its salvation by works!"
Pretty easy to see for those who study His mind a bit.
Faith requires promises not law...
Galatians 3:2-3, 5 (KJV)
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:6-7 (KJV)
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Fixation on the law is evidence one is not walking by faith.
Galatians 3:2-3, 5 (KJV)
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:6-7 (KJV)
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Fixation on the law is evidence one is not walking by faith.
From my experience, spiritual discernment is a pretty good foundation to base judgments on.
Like I said, prove me wrong...
Now the spiritual person discerns all things, but he himself is judged by no one. “For who has known the mind of the Lord; who has advised him?” But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:15-16
Like I said, prove me wrong...
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