The Law Debacle Resolved

[PeterJens]

I might be seeing this wrong but.... I am not called to live a particular way.

You know Jesus and you know walking in the Spirit. You know in your heart you react to things differently than you did before. This makes the way you live, what you like doing, how you speak, what you want to do has changed. This is living a different way.

I never thought I would ever have such a conversation with christians. The principles behind the law, showing respect, giving space are ways of expressing love to others. It is a sad day when people of the Kingdom know so little of the kingdom they belong to.

 

[Shoshanah]

It is curious that the Messianic congregations that lift the Torah higher than the Gospel are gung ho about Stern's translation.

Me too.... I am curious what might have been their motivation. The Gospel (good news) of Christ is the foundation of what really matters. I'm watching, and seeing if it will amount to anything.

 

[Least]

I might be seeing this wrong but.... I am not called to live a particular way.

I am called to know who I am in Christ.

If I try to live in my strength, a particular way?...That again is self efforts that will fail. Or also known as self righteous works.

I am called to know who I am in Christ and he will live his life through me.


Kefa


“But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness.”—Romans 8:10

“Because the God who said, Out of darkness light shall shine, is the One who shined in our hearts to illuminate the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us.”—2 Corinthians 4:6-7

“I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me.”—Galatians 2:20

“That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith.”—Ephesians 3:17

“Christ in you, the hope of glory.”—Colossians 1:27

“When He comes to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all those who have believed.”—2 Thessalonians 1:10

Kefa, you're always so nice. I wanted to say that I appreciate that about you, and the way that you approach things in a non accusatory way.

The way that I see it is that as we grow into the knowledge of the truth our lives will reflect the changes in us by, in and through Christ.

Paul taught a lot about maturing, growing, having our minds renewed and holding to the word of life.

Philippians 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.


Hold firmly to the word of life; then, on the day of Christ's return, I will be proud that I did not run the race in vain and that my work was not useless. NLT


Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

And going from the milk of the word to the meat of the word.

That's where the changes come in, seeking God and His will, growing and maturing in HIM and our lives will reflect that.

It never has been about anyone trying to be holy on their own, but real changes as we grow and mature in HIM.

That is why the whole bible is important for all of us.

 

[atwhatcost]

You're absolutely the last person to make such a statement. Your soul reeks of hostility and you prove it by constantly throwing daggers at people in an extremely unrighteous manner, all of it in an effort to quell your inner storm. But I digress. Now back to our regularly scheduled program -- grace.

If there's a dispute, you're there. If there isn't a dispute, you'll get one going. If you can misunderstand someone, you're there. If it's a post about grace, love, trying to understand scripture, trying to understand a concept, a good sermon, or trying to encourage, you're not there. You aren't the only one, but you were the only one who might have listened.

Me? There's a reason I quit reading these posts after a while. Because, ultimately it comes down to this -- nitpick until there are no more nits to pick at. Worse part? There were no nits to pick at in the first place. Jaume gave you a solid answer. He's with God's grace more than you are. He said straight up what he believes salvation is. He's given that solid answer to just about everyone on this post just out to nitpick, and yet you all are so busy targeting the balls hard enough to cause bruising, because you don't like his answer.

This post stopped being about God before you even showed up. This has been a nonstop attack for 70 pages, and I get the purpose of the attack. People got rid of others with this tactic, so with enough effort you can scour this board clean to keep it safe for the dodge ball throwers to keep right on playing.

Have you ever come up for air? This particular board frustrates enough people for many to try to figure it out on the misc board right before they leave this site. This is mobbing syndrome -- the way of the world, not God's way. Grace? the ones attacking expect God to give all the grace because it's certainly not up to them. They've got the dodge ball and already have it aimed where it's going.

Enough all ready. You're 50. Stop playing children's games. I have already.

 

[PeterJens]

Admit defeat? Nah, Its not about me, Its about God.

But hey, When your ready to stop excusing your own sin, And think your better than others, And you want to talk about the gospel. And not how to judge sinners, of which none of us are qualified, let me know. and we can talk.

Thankyou for opening your heart up to me. I am not excusing my own sin. Your whole framework of morality is like a different language. Unfortunately the way you talk will create serious problems for you.

I do not think myself better than anyone else. You have bought into a story and do not see how you love from the heart, seeing need and reaching out to others. You want to count sin, or say this person is better or worse than that person.

By me having a different approach to you, I am now a hypocrite and sinner.
I find it funny because I always use the phrase "I am a sinner saved by grace." I was rebuked that I was in righteousness and so no longer a sinner. Now I am a sinner but self righteous, so in denial.

So my conclusion is people just want to make an enemy to vent on, and are not interested in proper discussions.
It is a sad place, and not walking in the Spirit. But I am not sure that matters to you, for all your huff and puff.

 

[Shoshanah]

It never has been about anyone trying to be holy on their own, but real changes as we grow and mature in HIM.

That is why the whole bible is important for all of us.

True. The whole Bible. Amen!

 

[Kefa54]

Well...shoot. I was hanging in there for the first paragraph.
The second , not so much. I don't live by any principles behind any law. I live by who I am in Christ. His spirit lives through me. (When I rest in him)

Kefa

You know Jesus and you know walking in the Spirit. You know in your heart you react to things differently than you did before. This makes the way you live, what you like doing, how you speak, what you want to do has changed. This is living a different way.

I never thought I would ever have such a conversation with christians. The principles behind the law, showing respect, giving space are ways of expressing love to others. It is a sad day when people of the Kingdom know so little of the kingdom they belong to.

 

[PeterJens]

So, 1406 posts later. Will someone please answer my question?
Post #91--

We are commanded to obey Jesus. But we can only do this in the Holy Spirit, with a heart empowered by love.
How much we can do in the miraculous again is dependent on the will of God and the Holy Spirit.

Now we both know this answer. The point being made on this thread is obedience is how you learn failure and search out the Spirit of God. But as has been demonstrated the failure in peoples lives is so deep, they do not have any morals to follow. This is so far from holiness and purity, it is abuse of Jesus and His gospel.

To put this in context simple morality is not difficult to spot, but on this thread, for fear of being called a legalist, even the basics of morality are not held to. Do people even believe in the sin against the Holy Spirit? I would suppose not, because this appears to be a place of no morality. But how can you ever say you are a sinner if there is no morality? Without sin there is no death, no need for redemption, no reason for Jesus to die, no salvation and we are already in heaven.

But this is not the world we live in, so morality does exist, and this approach is a lie.

 

[PeterJens]

Well...shoot. I was hanging in there for the first paragraph.
The second , not so much. I don't live by any principles behind any law. I live by who I am in Christ. His spirit lives through me. (When I rest in him)
Kefa

There is a way of thinking that says everything is irrelevent, just walk in the Spirit and everything is answered.
Look around society, how people distort, lie, cheat, push things and excuse sin. Without so basic simple ways to say you are a sinner, a hypocrite, any liar can claim authority and walking in the Spirit with no comeback.

But this is not Gods way. Read the bible. It is a book of human morality, what people so easily do, the sins they fall into, the need to repent, confess their sins and walk in grace and love.

But some here would say being with God is just a mystical experience separate from morality or the word. This is not christianity or the gospel or anything but mysticism.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thankyou for opening your heart up to me. I am not excusing my own sin. Your whole framework of morality is like a different language. Unfortunately the way you talk will create serious problems for you.

We should open our heart up to everyone That's Gods way.

Of course the way I talk will create problems. I already said it would. I guess you want to crucify me like I said, because I look to Gods perfect law as the standard God requires. and not my own watered down version.

I do not think myself better than anyone else. You have bought into a story and do not see how you love from the heart, seeing need and reaching out to others. You want to count sin, or say this person is better or worse than that person.

How else should I take you? The context is, is that person saved or not. Not how a child of God should act. or what should we do. If that's your context (salvation) then you compare yourself to them, as to why your saved and they are not.

Again, that's the context. that's your issue.

By me having a different approach to you, I am now a hypocrite and sinner.

Nah, You just teach a different Gospel. You want everyone to be righteous first. then saved. God is not that way.

If not. Then why would you even ask such a question about can this person be saved?

(PS) that is a church inspired question, your not the first to use it, I used to use it myself)

I find it funny because I always use the phrase "I am a sinner saved by grace." I was rebuked that I was in righteousness and so no longer a sinner. Now I am a sinner but self righteous, so in denial.

Yet you claim that person was lost. So what made you more worthy of salvation than them? Funny how you never answered that question, does it scare you?

You can say that a hundred times, Yet when you claim your saved and others are not because of sins, then your not living as to what your saying

So my conclusion is people just want to make an enemy to vent on, and are not interested in proper discussions.
It is a sad place, and not walking in the Spirit. But I am not sure that matters to you, for all your huff and puff.

No. I am fighting a self righteous gospel..

You want to talk why your saved and why this sinner is not.

Your the one doing the hating, Not me.. I am no better than you or that sinner.

But that's ok. I do not need your approval. I have Gods. that's all that matters.

 

[Kefa54]

Where are we commanded to keep Jesus commands?

Holman Christian Standard Bible
John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commands.
( If you love me, If I live in you, If my spirit is in you....You will find my yoke/commands light.)

I don't see anything here that says "You MUST keep the commands."

Kefa

We are commanded to obey Jesus. But we can only do this in the Holy Spirit, with a heart empowered by love.
How much we can do in the miraculous again is dependent on the will of God and the Holy Spirit.

Now we both know this answer. The point being made on this thread is obedience is how you learn failure and search out the Spirit of God. But as has been demonstrated the failure in peoples lives is so deep, they do not have any morals to follow. This is so far from holiness and purity, it is abuse of Jesus and His gospel.

To put this in context simple morality is not difficult to spot, but on this thread, for fear of being called a legalist, even the basics of morality are not held to. Do people even believe in the sin against the Holy Spirit? I would suppose not, because this appears to be a place of no morality. But how can you ever say you are a sinner if there is no morality? Without sin there is no death, no need for redemption, no reason for Jesus to die, no salvation and we are already in heaven.

But this is not the world we live in, so morality does exist, and this approach is a lie.

 

[Magenta]

An argument arose among them as to which of them was the greatest. But when Jesus perceived the thought of their hearts, he took a child and put him by his side, and said to them, “Whoever receives this child in my name receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me; for he who is least among you all is the one who is great.”

 

[crossnote]

So, 1406 posts later. Will someone please answer my question?


Post #91--

Step #1. Buy a WWJD bracelet to remind you

 

[PeterJens]

Gods word matters.

At the temptation of Jesus by Satan, his answer was not the Holy Spirit tells me get behind me satan, no he said

It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ Mat 4:4


It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’ Mat 4:7


For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ Matt 4:10

The truth that is written is real authority. God honours His word. Even Jesus quotes Gods word when dealing with Satan, He is not using his ultimate authority. Everything hinges on what is written and how this implies authority, reality.

Now if this is how Jesus understands authority, it really matters. Conscience is important :-

Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
1 Tim 4:2


So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.
Acts 24:16


My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.
1 Cor 4:4

But again this has not even begun to enter into the discussion, because the discussion has not seriously begun, because certain people are too scared to identify the real sin within they refuse to confront.

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
Jame 5:16

Now for those so much under grace sins do not matter, why are we commanded to confess our sins to each other?
Because it is not relevant and there are no such thing as a righteous person.

 

[crossnote]

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

I believe Jesus is speaking to His Apostles the ones who spent 3 years with Him, they hadn't yet received the Holy Spirit.

 

[crossnote]

There is a way of thinking that says everything is irrelevent, just walk in the Spirit and everything is answered.
Look around society, how people distort, lie, cheat, push things and excuse sin. Without so basic simple ways to say you are a sinner, a hypocrite, any liar can claim authority and walking in the Spirit with no comeback.

But this is not Gods way. Read the bible. It is a book of human morality, what people so easily do, the sins they fall into, the need to repent, confess their sins and walk in grace and love.

But some here would say being with God is just a mystical experience separate from morality or the word. This is not christianity or the gospel or anything but mysticism.

Do you think being born again is a mystical' experience?
Have you received God's nature through the new birth?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Now for those so much under grace sins do not matter, why are we commanded to confess our sins to each other?
Because it is not relevant and there are no such thing as a righteous person.

See. Now are you not only a legalist. Your a liar. which means you have followed those who come before you and are no longer here.

I confess my sins to other Christians, And hope they do the same to me.

But if your a non believer, Confessing your sin will not help you. Ye must be born again before you can stop sin.


I told you that you would try to crucify me, (nice try but yuo failed and all ya did was show your true self) I see the one who said I was being stupid by saying people want to crucify me. liked what you said..Thats sad

 

[PeterJens]

See. Now are you not only a legalist. Your a liar. which means you have followed those who come before you and are no longer here.
I told you that you would try to crucify me, (nice try but yuo failed and all ya did was show your true self) I see the one who said I was being stupid by saying people want to crucify me. liked what you said..Thats sad

I am simply putting scripture before you, and now I am a liar and wanting to crucify you.

Now things do not work like this unless you have an odd mind.
I am listing various points in knowing what reality is

1. The word of God
2. Our consciences
3. Our morality
4. The holy spirit

The problem is as you will be very aware many claim to have words from the Holy Spirit that are anything but.
We are called to be discerning, to test the spirits, to make sure they confess Jesus came in flesh etc.

Somehow to just present how we can discern sin and morality, I am somehow wrong, when I am putting forward the basics of christian faith. If this is where you end up, by attacking this very foundation, then your faith is at sea with no foundation at all. It will soon be washed away by life itself, because there is nothing to ground it other than your own spiritual experiences, and personal convictions. I am disappointed. I had hoped for good christian fellowship and encouragement, but I am now a liar and crucifier of my fellow bretheren because I want to understand morality and sin properly, a sad day indeed.

 

[Utah]

If there's a dispute, you're there.

I didn't get past this. You're just mad because I reported you for using bad language.

I simply no longer care what you have to say and would rather put Tabasco sauce in my eyes than waste another minute of life reading your hate-filled diatribes. Go cleanse your soul.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am simply putting scripture before you, and now I am a liar and wanting to crucify you.

Now things do not work like this unless you have an odd mind.
I am listing various points in knowing what reality is

1. The word of God
2. Our consciences
3. Our morality
4. The holy spirit

The problem is as you will be very aware many claim to have words from the Holy Spirit that are anything but.
We are called to be discerning, to test the spirits, to make sure they confess Jesus came in flesh etc.

Somehow to just present how we can discern sin and morality, I am somehow wrong, when I am putting forward the basics of christian faith. If this is where you end up, by attacking this very foundation, then your faith is at sea with no foundation at all. It will soon be washed away by life itself, because there is nothing to ground it other than your own spiritual experiences, and personal convictions. I am disappointed. I had hoped for good christian fellowship and encouragement, but I am now a liar and crucifier of my fellow bretheren because I want to understand morality and sin properly, a sad day indeed.

Dude the context is the gospel.

Stick to the gospel. Or continue to be a liar.

We are not talking about what a child of God will do, we are talking about how one gets to heaven.

So unless you think they are one and the same (proving your a legalistic gospel teacher) then stick the topic,