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That makes no sense....The sin offering was symbolic.
Heb 10:The law (here Paul is speaking of the sacrificial laws) is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves (i.e,. Christ). For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all (from sin), and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins.3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins.4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me..."
"A body you prepared for me"?
1] What "body"?
2] Who is "me"?
3] Who is "you"?
Answer to # 1: Rom 6:6 "..."our oldself was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with..." Christ, as God, assumed our "body of sin" at the incarnation. "Body of sin" means a body indwelt with our bent (iniquity), but in Christ's case that "bent" never had its way with Him. Therefore He perfectly obeyed God's law.
Answer to # 2: Christ as God. The Deity of Christ, the Son of God.
Answer to # 3: God the Father
So here's how I read Hebrews 10:5
So God the Father united the Deity of Christ to our "body of sin" and thus Christ also became "the Son of Man".
S
..." Christ, as God, assumed our "body of sin" at the incarnation. "Body of sin" means a body indwelt with our bent (iniquity), but in Christ's case that "bent" never had its way with Him. Therefore He perfectly obeyed God's law.
I Wouldn't say that because I believe the reason Jesus was born from a virgin was so that he wouldn't have that "bent". Not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible seed, which is the Word of God. The word became flesh and dwelt among us.
So God the Father united the Deity of Christ to our "body of sin" and thus Christ also became "the Son of Man".
Christ always referred to himself as the Son of man all through the gospels. Christ was always the Son of man, just without the sin nature passed down from Adam. I suppose we could say that Christ was united to our "body of sin" on the cross, but I would like to make the distinction that it was on the cross. This is the cup that Christ prayed to pass if there was any other way.
I Wouldn't say that because I believe the reason Jesus was born from a virgin was so that he wouldn't have that "bent". Not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible seed, which is the Word of God. The word became flesh and dwelt among us.
So God the Father united the Deity of Christ to our "body of sin" and thus Christ also became "the Son of Man".
Christ always referred to himself as the Son of man all through the gospels. Christ was always the Son of man, just without the sin nature passed down from Adam. I suppose we could say that Christ was united to our "body of sin" on the cross, but I would like to make the distinction that it was on the cross. This is the cup that Christ prayed to pass if there was any other way.
Sin as transgression or sin as our bent-to-self?
Christ as the son of man was never a transgressor. Transgression has to do with knowingly breaking God's law.
Indwelling sin (what I call our bent-to-self) or iniquity,is not an act but a condition. As a result of the fall, man by very nature is spiritually “bent,” so that the driving force of his very nature is love of self. Paul defines it as “the law of sin and death” [Romans 7:23; 8:2]. It is this condition that is the basis of all our sinning, and which makes us slaves to sin [Romans 3:9-12; 7:14].
Christ as the Son of man was born as we are born again. So our indwelling sin (iniquity) never was allowed to control His mind. Therefore, through the Spirit, He never sinned. But because He assumed our humanity indwelt with iniquity that life (our corporate life) had to die. So Christ, as the Son of man, took our curse, legally (that is as far as God's law was concerned).
Christ as the son of man was never a transgressor. Transgression has to do with knowingly breaking God's law.
Indwelling sin (what I call our bent-to-self) or iniquity,is not an act but a condition. As a result of the fall, man by very nature is spiritually “bent,” so that the driving force of his very nature is love of self. Paul defines it as “the law of sin and death” [Romans 7:23; 8:2]. It is this condition that is the basis of all our sinning, and which makes us slaves to sin [Romans 3:9-12; 7:14].
Christ as the Son of man was born as we are born again. So our indwelling sin (iniquity) never was allowed to control His mind. Therefore, through the Spirit, He never sinned. But because He assumed our humanity indwelt with iniquity that life (our corporate life) had to die. So Christ, as the Son of man, took our curse, legally (that is as far as God's law was concerned).
Christ's body wasn't united with our sinful flesh (our body of sin, as you call it). He was created in the likeness of sinful flesh, i.e., as a man. That flesh knew no sin.
For what was impossible for the law, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, Romans 8:3
For what was impossible for the law, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, Romans 8:3
Likeness doesn't mean unlikeness!
Then likeness in what sense?
He, as God, was united to to us in our fallen condition.
Therefore it was never His nature, it was ours.
He was made something He wasn't by divine right. He was made sin, which simply means He, as God, assumed our humanity (indwelt with iniquity) and therefore also became "the son of man".
I too would like to here the explanation/interpretation with biblical scripture that harmonizes/makes sense/brings order.
The only thing I know is GOD is righteous and true.
+++
Hebrews 1:8-9
king James version(KJV)
8.)But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9.)Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
The only thing I know is GOD is righteous and true.
+++
Hebrews 1:8-9
king James version(KJV)
8.)But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9.)Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Sure it does. That's the whole nature of the new covenant and grace. The way I see it is that the ruler of the world made a covenant with Israel giving man forgiveness of sin. Since he as ruler forgave mankind's sin, justice required that he pay the price.
This is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for many into forgiveness of sins. Matthew 26:28
This is quite a claim. Humanity has indwelt with iniquity. Adam did not have iniquity until he eat of the tree of knowledge, and fell and died as a result. We are born into this position and state, but it is not humanity, but separation from God, betrayal of trust.
Jesus was born with communion with God as he was God. He showed in human form nothing about sin was inevitable, it is the lack of the communion and love that means we fail, have a tendency to sin, because without the source of love we will always justify things to ourselves as we do not have the right reference point.
These issues are not minor theologically and had led to heresy among some "christian" groups, claiming they are now eternal super humans with creative power, which is just insane, but that is what this leads to. Just one word miss-placed.
Jesus was born with communion with God as he was God. He showed in human form nothing about sin was inevitable, it is the lack of the communion and love that means we fail, have a tendency to sin, because without the source of love we will always justify things to ourselves as we do not have the right reference point.
These issues are not minor theologically and had led to heresy among some "christian" groups, claiming they are now eternal super humans with creative power, which is just insane, but that is what this leads to. Just one word miss-placed.
A
Try Leviticus. It goes into Moses getting the ten commandments, but it also spends a lot of time talking about the variety of offerings. (And there is a variety. I got lost on which offering was for what purpose, since "sin offering" is just one of the types of offerings people were supposed to make.)
S
You have to understand that if you look at Jesus as a sin offering, he is much different from any sin offering before. Whatever Jesus did or became, it took care of sin once and for all, for all who accept that offering as having been made on their behalf.
Hebrews 10:9-14King James Version (KJV)[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Hebrews 10:9-14King James Version (KJV)[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
I
I wonder if he really did become sin. Was sin infused or imparted to Him?
The Passover Lamb in the Old Testament provides insight on the concept of substitution. For example, the sacrificial lamb had to be “unblemished” (Exod. 12:5; Lev. 4:3, 23, 32). At the time of the sacrifice, a hand would be laid on the unblemished sacrificial animal to symbolize a transfer of guilt (Lev. 4:4, 24, 33).
Notice that the sacrificial lamb did not thereby actually become sinful by nature; rather, sin was imputed to the animal and the animal acted as a sacrificial substitute. In like manner, Christ the Lamb of God was utterly unblemished (1 Pet. 1:19), but our sin was imputed to Him and He was our sacrificial substitute at His crucifixion. I don't think because our sin was imputed to Him means He changed in nature or actually became sinful.
It's like it was laid on His back and suffered instead of us.
The Passover Lamb in the Old Testament provides insight on the concept of substitution. For example, the sacrificial lamb had to be “unblemished” (Exod. 12:5; Lev. 4:3, 23, 32). At the time of the sacrifice, a hand would be laid on the unblemished sacrificial animal to symbolize a transfer of guilt (Lev. 4:4, 24, 33).
Notice that the sacrificial lamb did not thereby actually become sinful by nature; rather, sin was imputed to the animal and the animal acted as a sacrificial substitute. In like manner, Christ the Lamb of God was utterly unblemished (1 Pet. 1:19), but our sin was imputed to Him and He was our sacrificial substitute at His crucifixion. I don't think because our sin was imputed to Him means He changed in nature or actually became sinful.
It's like it was laid on His back and suffered instead of us.
M
Your missing the point...call it what you want..we know that's its not a action by Him. I think the term "spiritual force" is the best identifier I could come up to describe the issue...what we know is this sin was taken by Him on our behalf and was judged in Him... what would you call it..because its clearly not a action He commited... don't get all bent out of shape...I just think its a good topic to discuss.