The Charismatic movement?

[Willie-T]

I love the remark about the video "scaring" one poster. But, they sure had no problem going to all the trouble to search for a video they could say that about.

I don't know about you guys, but videos don't just suddenly appear on my computer screen. I have to go looking for them... with intent to find something specific.

Like *Ember* said... after a couple of seconds, if you don't like what you see, don't watch it.

 

[ember]

Isn't intent kind of what Jesus looks at?

just wonderin'

 

[atwhatcost]

Before I posted this thread I didn't even know that Charismatic was a type of denomination let alone how often this denomination is ridiculed and seen as false which I can actually understand because I researched actual events in churches I saw ppl who were supposedly possess by a demon doing seizures and speaking in demonic voices and the pastor freeing them through means mainly of physical contact. Many would assume it was fake merely because that is the mind set they have already but I watched all these with an open heart and the only thing I knew was that I got a very uneasy feeling as watched many of these. Some were obviously staged as some ppl are just not meant to be actors but others you couldn't tell if they were acting or not but I still had a very uneasy feeling in my mid section, not my stomach but around there.

So far I have only seen these types of things involving demon possession healing and only one of tongues which honestly I wish I could remember how I found that one. I have seen how many ppl have actually become rich by doing this even getting hundreds to thousands of followers so it would be very easy to think the Charismatic is just a staged thing but even so if I truly believe anything is possible with God then I have no doubt God still does all these healings and demon possession freeing and even tongues although I doubt it would be made a big show like a lot of them. it is easy for the devil to make a mockery of the acts of God and getting ppl to doubt God's power by making all these fake staged and show like Charismatic things seems like something he would do. I have never seen a legit act of healing speaking in tongues freeing ppl from demons and all the things ppl think that God no longer does these days but I believe fully regardless because I believe in God's power

The first video I ever posted on You Tube was what happened when hubby turned on the video part of our digital camera to see how it works. It's a video of his feet an the sand around him. I thought it was funny, so I posted it. But how often do you take videos of stuff that happens every day? Not too often, because it's too normal to interest anyone.

So you've seen videos of people only when something interesting happened. And even there, some were staged to prove-a-point. Not so surprising. Exactly who remembers to pull out a camera when someone is being miraculously healed or delivered, until the person with the camera actually realizes it's really happening in front of him?

How often do we believers pray for a miracle compared to how often a real miracle happens instantly?

So, yeah. You haven't seen anyone speaking in tongues, anyone being healed or anyone being delivered from demons. At your age, I already saw one of those things often. (Tongues. Really common place in my church at that time.) A year later, I saw another one happen to me. (I break out in hives throughout my who body if stung by a bee, but I got stung on a date with future-hubby, who prayed over me immediately. Not only didn't I get hives, I didn't even get a lump where I got stung! Cool!) I still haven't seen someone delivered from demons, but hubby has. The woman being delivered from them is now his ex wife.

If you want to see what it's like for lots of people to speak in tongues, find the right kind of church for that. There are plenty, and most of them aren't the huge churches you see on You Tube. If you want to see people miraculously healed, then lay hands on people you care about who are sick. One of two things will happen:
1. Nothing noticeable. (Which happens more often then not, since we have no idea if God's will really is to heal the person.)
2. The person is healed instantly and you go into shock that God did that. (At least, I'm always shocked when God does that. lol)

Deliverance from demons? Well, that's a tough one since it's hard to know if someone has demons to begin with. Harder still, simply because we think we're strong enough to fight demons, but all along forget it's not our fight, and we really aren't strong enough. (If we're doing it in our strength, we lose.)

So, sure, you've seen videos on You Tube. In this day an age I only know one person who hasn't ever seen You Tube videos. (Dad. He never did go online. lol) You're not seeing someone fiddling with their camera. You're seeing someone ready for the screen shot, which pretty much says it's not the real deal. (Or, if it is, it should be lousy coverage, because the person with the camera is in shock it's really happening. lol)

Just don't judge a large group of Christians by what you can pull up on You Tube. Most just don't add every day life onto You Tube. If you want to experience every day life of a Charismatic, find a Charismatic Church. MadParrotWoman is typical of Charismatics, which is probably why she doesn't get her camera out for Sunday service. The ones who do get their cameras out are usually trained for the coverage to promote something.

Oh, and BTW. I say that knowing my church does film each Sunday service. They do that for those of us who can't go or for anyone to hear a good message from the Word. Laying hands and praying for people isn't done during service. That can be done the other 166 hours of the week.

 

[atwhatcost]

God is the only audience of our worship- it must be how He wants it- not how we want it. No matter the religion, it must match the bible, otherwise it is a false doctrine, and false doctrines do not result in salvation. The bible says our worship must be done decently and orderly- how is that decent and in order? How is that women belong silent in worship? How is that one person speaking at a time? Charismatics say that miraculous miracles are still performed today, but that's not what the bible says. Christ only has twelve apostles. If they were here they would be over two thousand years old. And if they really claim that, why don't they go to the hospitals and set everyone free? Christ healed immediately and completely. How can one not see that this is not the church Jesus established with His blood?

Just because you don't think miracles still happen doesn't mean you have God's word right. How are women to be silent in the church? We don't talk during the message. If we're prophetesses, like Miriam was, then we're free to prophecy in an orderly manner.

How about not judging others by your version of the Word, especially since you don't understand the people you are judging? You just judged MadParrotWoman as a nonbeliever. Seriously? Do you even believe that? I can run down a longer list of women on this site who are Charismatics, and you'd be shocked because you know they're believers. So why speak of stuff you don't know?

 

[atwhatcost]

You're really reaching.
I have probably 300 things on my computer that I might cite... but I honestly have no idea where many of them came from. I usually just say "I ran across this", or something like that. Even if I know the source, some of these authors are personal friends (I sometimes do some work for one of them), I often don't give their names because I know this crowd too well.... I just refer to them as friends, or sources.

Frankly, I believe we have to either be a little dense, or on a witch hunt, not to see when someone intentionally lets us know they are citing an outside source.

I honestly think Blain merely didn't know to do that, so Maxwel let him know. (I didn't know Blain did that, so I didn't pick up on it.)

BUT then there is the writer. Writers work hard on their words. They're proud when what they write is good enough to get published. Sometimes they mind very much that the words are taken. Sometimes they mind very much if the words are taken out of context. Sometimes they just want the credit for the words. But to take them without citing is like me taking your antique car to to an antique car show. Maybe you have no problem me borrowing your car, but don't you at least want to know?

This has nothing to do with what capacity a reader has. This has everything to do with respecting an author.

 

[atwhatcost]

Anyone familiar with Blain knows how humble he is and that he is NOT given to theft including plagiarizing. Seems to me the source of his words is irrelevant.

What is relevant is why are you straining at a gnat?

This is what you get, once again, when people cruise posts looking for something negative to respond to, instead of thoughtfully considering WHAT WAS ACTUALLY BEING SAID/ASKED.

Now, got any comments on the charismatic movement or are you going to keep harping on a lost attribution?

Is it irrelevant if someone takes your work and passes it off as something she did? That's where relevancy comes in. I'm a writer, so this IS relevant.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Is it irrelevant if someone takes your work and passes it off as something she did? That's where relevancy comes in. I'm a writer, so this IS relevant.

But Blain did NOT say it was HIS own words. He said he did some research and that what he posted, was what he found. He never said "this is mine."

 

[atwhatcost]

Show me one example of Jesus emptying a hospital...

Show me a hospital in Israel in the 3rd decade AD.

(I bet Jesus woulda if he coulda. lol)

 

[atwhatcost]

Firstly, this is not about whether one believes in miracles by The Holy Spirit or not. It's about being able to recognize the difference between signs, those from God vs. those from the devil.

When our Lord Jesus cast out evil spirits, were the victims not healed, even of palsies, and able to stand whole? If in those Churches people that fall to floor, making animal noises and shaking uncontrollably is a sign of The Holy Spirit, then how is it those are instead not standing to show they've been made whole like the New Testament examples? How is barking like an animal throbbing on the floor a show of edification of our Lord Jesus Christ?

Which is a sign of confusion in the Church according to Apostle Paul, someone rolling around in the floor, jumping up and down uncontrollably, laughing uncontrollably, running up and down the aisle out of control, or someone in full possession of their senses and self-control? The former things are a sign of 'confusion'. The latter is a sign of peace, as it is in all of true Churches of the saints according to Apostle Paul (1 Cor.14:33).

In the New Testament examples, the victim with an evil spirit prior... to it being cast out was not in control of their own body (Luke 4). The opposite of that after Jesus cast out the evil spirit was a person made whole, having come back to their senses and in control.

Per Acts 2, especially per the Greek manuscripts, when the Apostles spoke the cloven tongue on Pentecost, all those peoples present from different countries with different languages 'understood' them in their own dialect (dialectos) of the town they were born. How is that comparable to the claimed tongues those Churches say are from The Holy Spirit??? It is not. What those Churches claim is a different... sign outside that Acts 2 Scripture.

The events of uncontrollable laughter, rolling around impersonating an animal, and shaking uncontrollably, which also occur among eastern religions like Hinduism, having nothing to do with Christ and His Church. Yet, there they are, those same type of signs manifesting in those western churches, which are actually beth-avens, i.e., houses of vanity.

I strongly disagree with barking, laughing just to fit in, and acting like an idiot just to fit in. That said, can you get past that into thinking that's not the sum total of the Charismatic movement? I've been in many Charismatic church and never saw that kind of behavior.

(BTW, I've shaken uncontrollably without ever even studying eastern religions, so I don't even get why you went there.)

 

[atwhatcost]

And your point???

Tell you what. I'll say this, and you can do whatever you want with it. But remember, this I speak is... God's Word as written:

The cloven tongue of Pentecost manifested through the Apostles by The Holy Spirit was 'understood' as known languages of the world when all the people present heard them speak. That is the fact of the Acts 2 Scripture. This is the Scriptural fact. No changing it. That is what we must... rely on, what's written in Acts 2.
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Yet the tongues you speak of, it requires an interpreter, because the majority present CANNOT understand it.



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Another Scriptural fact: in 1 Corinthians 12 thru 14, the word "unknown" is NOT in the original Greek texts the KJV translators used. The KJV translators added that word "unknown". The word that is there, is simply the sole Greek word glossa' (rendered as "tongue"), which means known languages of the world that people speak.

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Yet those you are showing support for that claim to speak an "unknown tongue" believe it is NOT manifested as known languages of the world.


The true cloven tongue spoken on Pentecost is manifest today only... when all present understand what is spoken in their language dialect of birth. That's is the evidence of Acts 2. And the word dialect in the Greek is very, very... specific. It means even the slang speech each person uses in their own language dialect of where they were born.

I strongly believe the 'true' cloven tongue still manifests in this way... when it is necessary to witness The Gospel to peoples of different languages that the evangelist does not know. Most of these modern day examples have been in nations outside the western Christian nations. Everyone heard in their own... language of birth what was being spoken, just as it was on the day of Pentecost, as the people who heard the Apostles proclaimed how they heard them speak about "the wonderful works of God" in their own languages.

That's my witness to you. It's up to you what you chose to do with it.

Sorry, just because you make something about cloven tongues into a doctrine, really doesn't mean "this I speak is... God's Word as written."

(Why is it, everyone with a pet theory thinks they're speaking for God?)

 

[atwhatcost]

I love the remark about the video "scaring" one poster. But, they sure had no problem going to all the trouble to search for a video they could say that about.

I don't know about you guys, but videos don't just suddenly appear on my computer screen. I have to go looking for them... with intent to find something specific.

Like *Ember* said... after a couple of seconds, if you don't like what you see, don't watch it.

Seriously! The Wizard of Oz scares me. (Those flying monkeys are above "creepy.") So I don't watch it.

And since The Wizard of Oz scares me, exactly why would I look at a video that scares someone else? (And why would that person watch it if it did scare him? lol)

 

[atwhatcost]

But Blain did NOT say it was HIS own words. He said he did some research and that what he posted, was what he found. He never said "this is mine."

I'm really not blaming Blain. If you don't know, how are you going to do?

But, I've done research on Edison 50 years ago and still remember he was born February 11, 1847 in (the small town of) Milan, OH. Whatever reference I used back then told me that. (Third grade -- my first speech -- so I really don't remember the reference sources, just my opening line.) It was rewritten from the source, so rewriting it meant I didn't have to cite the source in my speech. (I've always been lazy. lol)

If it's directly from the source, then it needs attribution.

(This is more clarifying copyright issues now so folks understand. Sorry about side tracking the main intent of the thread.)

 

[atwhatcost]

But Blain did NOT say it was HIS own words. He said he did some research and that what he posted, was what he found. He never said "this is mine."

BTW, are you back from your doctor's appointment or still facing it? (Yeah, I'm praying for you.)

 

[Blain]

ok so it's apparent that because I didn't post the source I found it at that I did something illegal which I did not intend to do. I didn't know that if you don't post the source it's stealing so I will try to find the source again and post it

 

[Blain]

the source I got it from is here What is the Charismatic movement?

 

[atwhatcost]

the source I got it from is here What is the Charismatic movement?

From the mind of a writer, thank you! You're so sweet! (in a manly kind of way of course. Hey, my brothers always got this look of disgust on their faces when I tell them they're sweet, until I say something like that. lol)

 

[Kaycie]

That is false,and why I brought up Paul.

Mattais was Judas replacement.

No doubt you are insinuating there can never be more than 12 apostles.
That would be false also

Yes there can only be 12 apostles. The 12 from the New Testament, and the 12 sons of Jacob whose name was changed to Israel, make up the 24 elders around God's throne.

Matthias was not Judas's replacement. The apostles had to be handpicked by Christ Himself. Paul wasn't even there to be considered, and he surely did not match the requirements the apostles listed.

 

[Blain]

From the mind of a writer, thank you! You're so sweet! (in a manly kind of way of course. Hey, my brothers always got this look of disgust on their faces when I tell them they're sweet, until I say something like that. lol)

Oh no worries I am told I am sweet by many well- older women( no offence) so it's no bother to me I see it as God's light shining when I am told I am sweet. In all honesty I am in no way a man or manly I am a child in heart nature and even in appearance. Believe me I know what it takes to be a man, you can be the age of a man you be physically built as one but in the end a real man has a virtuous heart he loves his wife and family and respects his betters, he stands up for the weak and works hard in everything he does no matter how small, he also is sensitive and understanding of of ppls feelings and hurt and he is willing to lay down his life for another, he is responsible not lazy he knows when to hold his tongue and knows when to speak.
I can go on and on about what it means to be a man and many would disagree with me about what I think it means to be a man but when I see jesus I see what a man really is and I am far from being a man

 

[RickyZ]

Is it irrelevant if someone takes your work and passes it off as something she did? That's where relevancy comes in. I'm a writer, so this IS relevant.

Blain never said those were his words. And as a writer you should know that you have to prove a financial loss to claim a copyright infringement. And what Blain referred to wasn't from you. So get over yourself and join the subject debate at hand... charismatica. If you're really that peeved start your own plagiarism thread.

 

[RickyZ]

Show me a hospital in Israel in the 3rd decade AD.

(I bet Jesus woulda if he coulda. lol)

Lepers lived in colonies did they not?

Jesus healed individual lepers as they showed faith. Jesus never invaded and emptied a colony.