The Catholics and my conclusion

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epostle

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Magenta

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Fulton J Sheen an apostate? Care to provide some examples and prove your assertion?
Venerable Fulton John Sheen was an American bishop of the Catholic Church. That's all we need to know, since as a Catholic in such high standing he would have had to accept the ex cathedra dogmas, both of which concern Mary, neither of which were taught by Jesus nor any of His disciples, nor are they supported by Scripture in any way... not to mention all the other doctrines about Mary the Catholic church promotes and defends, as well as many other things all previously brought to your attention, believed by many to be heresies. You are posting on a site that was founded by people who believe the RCC to be heretical; the RCC is believed to have abandoned the truth many centuries ago. Paul said we should each be convinced in our own minds. That was pretty much directly following having said, To their own master, servants stand or fall. Perhaps a large part of the problem is that people perceive others as following a mere mortal person and not the Lord.
 

crossnote

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epostle

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Venerable Fulton John Sheen was an American bishop of the Catholic Church. That's all we need to know, since as a Catholic in such high standing he would have had to accept the ex cathedra dogmas, both of which concern Mary, neither of which were taught by Jesus nor any of His disciples, nor are they supported by Scripture in any way... not to mention all the other doctrines about Mary the Catholic church promotes and defends, as well as many other things all previously brought to your attention, believed by many to be heresies. You are posting on a site that was founded by people who believe the RCC to be heretical; the RCC is believed to have abandoned the truth many centuries ago. Paul said we should each be convinced in our own minds. That was pretty much directly following having said, To their own master, servants stand or fall. Perhaps a large part of the problem is that people perceive others as following a mere mortal person and not the Lord.
Did Jesus love his mother?
 
Jun 23, 2015
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I cannot believe this behavior among Christians. I am sharing the Word with an Orthodox Arabic Believer and that person is very open minded. We have read the Word together, shared history of Orthodox, Catholic, Christianity, Islam and Hebrew religion. We discuss varies topics in religion and we do it with RESPECT, Love, Understanding and behave in the manner Jesus would project to others of different faith. All religions have done great horrific during history. Most Catholics that I have meet does not demonstrate hateful behavior as others proclaiming to have the truth. Love is the key not judgmental attitudes because there is only ONE JUDGE that is God not man.
 

Magenta

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This is what the admin of this site believe. Are they being rude and judgmental?


So for the record, Catholicism is heresy. That's what the admins of this site believe.

Mary WAS A SINNER.

She needed a savior, just like you and me.

She is NOT the "mother of God". God has no mother, because God is God. Yes Jesus is God, and Mary was his mother, but we have to understand the dual nature of Jesus. He was 100% God yes, and also 100% man. Mary was his mother as a man, not as God. No where does the scripture refer to Mary as the "mother of God". And in fact, she's not even mentioned in all the epistles. All the New Testament instruction to the church is all about Jesus, not Mary. They never said "hail Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners". They always said JESUS .. JESUS... JESUS.

This is preaching to the choir for most people here. But it regularly happens that we start to accumulate Catholics here who really promote and argue their Catholicism, along with all the heresy.

So for the record, if anyone wants or needs to hear it, we don't agree with Catholic heresy. And yes it is heresy to exalt any other human being as sinless to the same level as Jesus (as the Catholics do with Mary -- they actually teach that Mary was sinless like Jesus!!!), and put equal focus on a person other than Jesus.

 

crossnote

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I cannot believe this behavior among Christians. I am sharing the Word with an Orthodox Arabic Believer and that person is very open minded. We have read the Word together, shared history of Orthodox, Catholic, Christianity, Islam and Hebrew religion. We discuss varies topics in religion and we do it with RESPECT, Love, Understanding and behave in the manner Jesus would project to others of different faith. All religions have done great horrific during history. Most Catholics that I have meet does not demonstrate hateful behavior as others proclaiming to have the truth. Love is the key not judgmental attitudes because there is only ONE JUDGE that is God not man.
Where's the WarRoom? :p
 
A

atwhatcost

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I've been to far too many of them. Always with a mass for the dead. Smoke from the censor to bless the casket. Always with the hope and only hope for the deceased. Never any certainty of the eternal state of the departed.

I will take a hundred born again Christian funerals to one Catholic funeral. I can rejoice in sadness knowing that the departed one is in the presence of the Lord who shed His blood to redeem the precious soul of the body in the casket.

I have seen dear old saints go through terrible suffering in the flesh with a sure and certain hope in Christ of eternal life. I've seen them pray for the ones they were about to leave behind taking no care of their immediate suffering but sincere prayer for those remaining behind.

The sinner begs for one more breath while the saint beckons for Christ to come and to do so quickly.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
There was certainty. I've known Mom didn't make it to heaven.

Maybe if you could have covered up from the smell of the frankincense, you could have heard God's word spoken.
 

mailmandan

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A careful reading of the Edict of Milan debunks a good portion of this video. Catholicism has pagan roots? That's rather absurd.
Of course the Roman Catholic church is in denial of the truth and obviously so are you. The Roman Catholic church proclaims itself to be the Church that Jesus Christ died for, the Church that was established and built by the apostles. Is that the true origin of the Roman Catholic church? On the contrary. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Roman Catholic church does not have its origin exclusively in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, praying to Mary, petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. So, if the origin of the Roman Catholic church is not truly in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Roman Catholic church?

Prior to the Edict of Milan, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine provided religious toleration with the Edict of Milan in AD 313, effectively lifting the ban on Christianity. Later, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith, but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine promoted was a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism. Constantine found that, with the Roman Empire being so vast, expansive, and diverse, not everyone would agree to forsake his or her religious beliefs to embrace Christianity. So, Constantine allowed, and even promoted, the “Christianization” of pagan beliefs. Completely pagan and utterly unbiblical beliefs were given new “Christian” identities.

Of course, the Roman Catholic church denies the pagan origin of its beliefs and practices. The Roman Catholic church disguises its pagan beliefs under layers of complicated theology and “church tradition.” Recognizing that many of its beliefs and practices are utterly foreign to Scripture, the Roman Catholic church is forced to deny the ultimate authority and sufficiency of Scripture.

The origin of the Roman Catholic church is the tragic compromise of Christianity with the pagan religions that surrounded it. Instead of proclaiming the gospel and converting the pagans, the Roman Catholic church “Christianized” the pagan religions, and “paganized” Christianity. By blurring the differences and erasing the distinctions, yes, the Roman Catholic church made itself attractive to the people of the Roman Empire. One result was the Roman Catholic church becoming the supreme religion in the Roman world for centuries. However, another result was the most dominant form of Christianity apostatizing from the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the true proclamation of God’s Word. I've heard these same arguments from numerous Christian apologists and ex-Roman Catholics who are now born again Christians. I've also heard numerous testimonies from ex-Roman Catholic priests who left the Roman Catholic church to find salvation through faith in Jesus Christ:

Henry Gregory Adams. Born in Saskatchewan, Canada. He entered the Basilian Order of monks and adopted the monastic name of "Saint Hilarion the Great." He was ordained as a priest and served five parishes in the Lemont, Alberta, area.
Sacraments. "The monastic life and the sacraments prescribed by the Roman Catholic Church did not help me to come to know Christ personally and find salvation . . . I realized that the man-made sacraments of my church and my good works were in vain for salvation. They lead to a false security."

Joseph Tremblay. Born in Quebec, Canada, 1924. He was ordained a priest in Rome, Italy, and was sent to Bolivia, Chile, where he served for 13 years "as a missionary in the congregation of the Oblate Fathers of Mary Immaculate." Salvation by works. "My theology has taught me that salvation is by works and sacrifices . . . my theology gives me no assurance of salvation. The Bible offers me that assurance . . . I had been trying to save myself on my works . . . I was stifled in a setting in which I was pushed to do good works to merit my salvation."

Bartholomew F. Brewer. He applied to the Discalced Carmelites, a strict monastic order. He received training of "four years of high school seminary, two years in the novitiate, three years of philosophy, and four years of theology (the last after ordination)." He was ordained to the Roman Catholic priesthood at the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception of Mary in Washington, D.C. He eventually served as a diocesan priest in San Diego, California, and entered the Navy as a Roman Catholic chaplain. Upon questioning Rome's Beliefs, "At first I did not understand, but gradually I observed a wonderful change in mother. Her influence helped me realize the importance of the Bible in determining what we believe. We often discussed subjects such as the primacy of Peter, papal infallibility, the priesthood, infant baptism, confession, the mass, purgatory, the Immaculate Conception of Mary, and the bodily assumption of Mary into Heaven. In time I realized that not only are these beliefs not in the Bible but also they are actually contrary to the clear teaching of Scripture."

Relying on works. He left the Roman Catholic church, got married, and through conversations with his wife and other Christians, "I finally understood that I had been relying on my own righteousness and religious efforts and not upon the completed and sufficient sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The Roman Catholic religion had never taught me that our own righteousness is fleshly and not acceptable to God nor that we need to trust in His righteousness alone . . . during all those years of monastic life I had relied on the sacraments of Rome to give me grace, to save me."

Hugh Farrell. Born in Denver, Colorado. Entered the Order of our Lady of Mount Carmel, commonly called the Discalced Carmelite Fathers. Ordained as a priest. Priestly power to change elements: "The priest, according to the teaching of the Roman Catholic church, has the power to take ordinary bread and wine, and, by pronouncing the words of the consecration prayer in the sacrifice of the Mass, to change it into the actual body and blood and soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. Hence, since one cannot separate the human nature of Christ from his divinity, the bread and wine, after being changed into the body and blood of Jesus Christ, are entitled to the worship of adoration,".

Temporal punishment due to sins. "I knew from the teachings of the priests and nuns that I could not hope to go directly to heaven after my death. My Roman Catholic catechism taught me that after death I had to pay for the temporal punishment due to my sins. The Roman Catholic Church teaches that 'the souls of the just which, in a moment of death, are burdened with venial sins or temporal punishment due to sin, enter purgatory,'. Penance. Regarding life in the monastery and doing penance. "These penances consist of standing with the arms outstretched to form a cross, kissing the sandaled feet of the monks, receiving a blow upon the face from the monks, and, at the end of the meal, lying prostrate before the entrance to the refectory so that the departing monks must step over one's body. These, and other penances, are supposed to gain one merit in heaven and increase one's 'spiritual bank account."

The Mass and sorcery. "According to the teaching of the Roman Church, the priest, no matter how unworthy he may personally be, even if he has just made a pact with the devil for his soul, has the power to change the elements of bread and wine into the actual body and blood, soul and divinity, of Jesus Christ. Provided he pronounces the words of consecration properly and has the intention of consecrating, God must come down on the altar and enter and take over the elements."

Alexander Carson. Baptized into the Roman Catholic church as an infant. His priesthood studies were at St. John's seminary, Brighton, Massachusetts. He was ordained by Bishop Lawrence Shehan of Bridgeport, Connecticut in 1955 and was a priest in Alexandria, Louisiana. Also, he was pastor of Sacred Heart Catholic church, Rayville, Louisiana. Bible or Tradition. " . . . the Holy Spirit led me to judge Roman Catholic theology by the standard of the Bible. Previously, I had always judged the Bible by Roman Catholic doctrine and theology." Mass contrary to Scripture. "In my letter of resignation from the Roman Catholic church and Ministry, I stated to the bishop that I was leaving the priesthood because I could no longer offer the Mass as it was contrary to the Word of God and to my conscience."

Charles Berry. He entered the Order of Hermits of St. Augustine and became a priest after 17 years. He was given orders to continue studying until he achieved a Ph.D. in chemistry and was then "transferred to the headquarters of the Augustinian order in the United States." Superstition. "In the United States the Roman Catholic church is on its best behavior, putting its best foot forward because of its critics and opponents. In a Roman Catholic country--where it has few opponents or critics--it is a very different matter. Ignorance and superstition and idolatry are everywhere, and little effort, if any, is made to change the situation. Instead of following the Christianity taught in the Bible, the people concentrate on the worship of statues and their local patron saints."

Idols and Statues. "When I met in Cuba, a genuine pagan who worshiped idols (a religion transplanted from Africa by his ancestors), I asked how he could believe that a plaster idol could help him. He replied that the idol was not expected to help him. It only represented the power in heaven which could. What horrified me about his reply was that it was almost word for word the explanation Roman Catholics give for rendering honor to the statues of the saints."

Bob Bush. He went to a Jesuit Seminary and studied for 13 years before being ordained in 1966. He entered a post graduate program in Rome. Works: "When I entered the order, the first thing that happened was that I was told I had to keep all the rules and regulations, that to do so would be pleasing to God, and that this was what he wanted for me. We were taught the motto, 'Keep the rule and the rule will keep you."

Salvation is by faith: "It took me many years to realize that I was compromising by staying in the Roman Catholic Church. Throughout all those years, I continued to stress that salvation is only in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross and not in the infant baptism--that there is only one source of authority which is the Bible, the Word of God and that there is no purgatory but rather that when we die to either go to heaven or hell."

Salvation by works: "The Roman Catholic church then goes on to say that in order to be saved you must keep its laws, rules and regulations. And in these laws are violated (for example, laws concerning birth control or fasting or attendance at Mass every Sunday), then you have committed a sin . . . 'individual and integral confession and absolution constitute the only ordinary way by which the faithful person who was aware of serious sin can be reconciled with God, and with the church,'" (Canon 9609, p. 75).

Works: "The Roman Catholic church adds works and that you have to do these specific things [keeping its laws, rule and regulations] in order to be saved whereas the Bible says in Ephesians 2:8-9 that it is by grace that we are saved, not by works."

As you can see, even Roman Catholic Priests can discover the truth found in God's Word and escape the error of the Roman Catholic system of works' righteousness and so can you. To God be the glory. :)

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one can boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).
 

epostle

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Oct 24, 2015
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This is what the admin of this site believe. Are they being rude and judgmental?

No, but like you, they base their objections on misinformation and misrepresentations.

So for the record, Catholicism is heresy. That's what the admins of this site believe.
Since you speak for them, are they infallible? Only an infallible church can declare a heresy if you knew your bible, not private opinions. You didn't answer my question. Did Jesus love his mother?

Mary WAS A SINNER.

She needed a savior, just like you and me.
The merits of the cross go in both directions in time. When was Mary saved? Did the angel Gabriel say "POOF" you are now full of grace??? Have you watered down Luke 1:28 to the point of insignificance? Or did Mary go to the Temple and accept Jesus as her personal savior? Silly, isn't it? When in her life was she Full of Grace? Does grace save? Doesn't the fullness of grace save? Mary needed a savior to make her sinlessness possible, so it's a no brainer. God did not have to make her sinless, but he chose to. I am wondering if you are so steeped in prejudice you will dismiss all my questions and refuse to think for yourself. Like you ignored my first question.

And if NONE of the reformers taught that Mary was a sinner, when did this teaching start? Isn't that proof enough you follow a man made tradition that even the Protestant reformers didn't believe???

She is NOT the "mother of God". God has no mother, because God is God. Yes Jesus is God, and Mary was his mother, but we have to understand the dual nature of Jesus. He was 100% God yes, and also 100% man. Mary was his mother as a man, not as God. No where does the scripture refer to Mary as the "mother of God".
Luke 1:43 - Elizabeth's use of "Mother of my Lord" (in Hebrew, Elizabeth used "Adonai" which means Lord God) is the equivalent of "Holy Mary, Mother of God"
"Mother of God" is a title given to Mary to defend the Incarnation against the heresiarch Nestorius. It's about the nature of Jesus, not so much who Mary is. But you are correct when you say Mary was His mother, but then you divide Jesus in two natures. What was in her womb? 2 natures or a Person? This is what you don't understand.

Nestorianism (5th Century)

This heresy about the person of Christ was initiated by Nestorius, bishop of Constantinople, who denied Mary the title of Theotokos (Greek: "God-bearer" or, less literally, "Mother of God"). Nestorius claimed that she only bore Christ’s human nature in her womb, and proposed the alternative title Christotokos ("Christ-bearer" or "Mother of Christ").

Orthodox Catholic theologians recognized that Nestorius’s theory would fracture Christ into two separate persons (one human and one divine, joined in a sort of loose unity), only one of whom was in her womb. The Church reacted in 431 with the Council of Ephesus, defining that Mary can be properly referred to as the Mother of God, not in the sense that she is older than God or the source of God, but in the sense that the person she carried in her womb was, in fact, God incarnate ("in the flesh").

There is some doubt whether Nestorius himself held the heresy his statements imply, and in this century, the Assyrian Church of the East, historically regarded as a Nestorian church, has signed a fully orthodox joint declaration on Christology with the Catholic Church and rejects Nestorianism. It is now in the process of coming into full ecclesial communion with the Catholic Church.

You unknowingly admit to being Nestorian in the way you think yet you accuse Catholicism of being in heresy.
:confused:
Here is a list of major heresies that plagued the Church starting with the 1st century. It also explains what a heresy is, since you throw that term around rather loosely, you should find out what it means.


And in fact, she's not even mentioned in all the epistles.

Acts 1:14. Why was Mary the only women mentioned by name?

All the New Testament instruction to the church is all about Jesus, not Mary. They never said "hail Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners". They always said JESUS .. JESUS... JESUS.
She wouldn't have it any other way. This is what you refuse to understand. She said to the servants, "Do whatever He tells you." at the Cana wedding. You might take that as a trivial verse but we take it to mean something.

This is preaching to the choir for most people here. But it regularly happens that we start to accumulate Catholics here who really promote and argue their Catholicism, along with all the heresy.
I don't see Catholics starting provocative threads. What regularly happens in here is that Catholicism gets attacked with misrepresentations and lies, and you object when Catholics defend their faith. Bigotry, hate and lies are the standard in here and I don't see anything "Christian" in the way Catholics are treated, especially from the Whore of Babble-on psychos. So excuse me for trying to teach you anything.

I wouldn't want to be you when you face Jesus and He brings to mind all that you said against His mother, but your ignorance and prejudice diminishes your culpability.

So for the record, if anyone wants or needs to hear it, we don't agree with Catholic heresy.
Then stop bashing us.
And yes it is heresy to exalt any other human being as sinless to the same level as Jesus (as the Catholics do with Mary -- they actually teach that Mary was sinless like Jesus!!!), and put equal focus on a person other than Jesus.
All Marian devotion brings us closer to Jesus, this is what you refuse to understand. Understanding Mariology begins with the Ark of the Covenant, compared to the Ark of the New Covenant, it does not begin with a 5th century theological title that you refuse to understand and have redefined it to suit your agenda.

Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant | Catholic Answers

 
W

WARRIORinCHRIST

Guest
I'm sad to admit as a Catholic, but MANY think they are saved simply by going to Church on Sundays and taking communion. They don't LOVE God, or Jesus, or our Most Blessed Virgin Mother, they simply go through the motions. I will NOT try to convince you of ANYTHING! For the TRUTH need NOT be defended, it is as a LION!! I will simply ask ALL people to pray for discernment from God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit in ALL you question that has to do with matters of FAITH, and to pray for ALL of Gods children!! REGARDLESS of color, nationality, religion or sexual conitation, for it is NOT for US to JUDGE others!! But to WORSHIP, HONOR, LOVE AND GIVE THANKS TO OUR MOST HOLY FATHER AND HIS BLESSED SON JESUS CHRIST!!
 

epostle

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Of course the Roman Catholic church is in denial of the truth ***message truncated*** Roman Catholic system of works' righteousness and so can you. To God be the glory. :)

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one can boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Your post is meaningless without the source. For all I know you spent a long time making this stuff up. Catholics don't teach or believe "works righteousness", that is a Protestant myth.
 
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epostle

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Oct 24, 2015
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Your post is meaningless without the source. For all I know you spent a long time making this stuff up. Catholics don't teach or believe "works righteousness", that is a Protestant myth.
Matt Slick has no credibility, which is where you got most of your post from. When Catholics meet his challenges or expose his false charges, he simply bans them and/or deletes the posts. He still doesn't understand what a sacrament is, and it has been explained to him 1000X.

Your first paragraph is a list of terms spanning hundreds of years of doctrinal development, so your misrepresentation is gross. I don't reply to such shot gun tactics.

As for the embittered ex-priests, I think the testimonies are for the most part - phony. it is the language of fundamentalism and does not reflect the faith of a Catholic with a modicum of education. If they are real former priests, they are like the guy who breaks up with his girlfriend and spends the rest of his life bad-mouthing her.
 
W

WARRIORinCHRIST

Guest
Your first paragraph is a list of terms spanning hundreds of years of doctrinal development, so your misrepresentation is gross. I don't reply to such shot gun tactics.

As for the embittered ex-priests, I think the testimonies are for the most part - phony. it is the language of fundamentalism and does not reflect the faith of a Catholic with a modicum of education. If they are real former priests, they are like the guy who breaks up with his girlfriend and spends the rest of his life bad-mouthing her.
AMEN
AVE MARIA
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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So my conclusion is that yes I admit many of them are not saved because they hold much more value and authority in the church and traditions than the bible and God himself but also some are saved holding many Christian values but go by Catholic and do still hold some of the traditions of the Catholic faith but make it a point to focus on the love and relationship with God in order to grow and become strong in him. I won't be going there much anymore because I found the evidence and truth I sought after, it is said that the Catholic faith is pagan and for the most part i would agree but not all of them are.
I wonder how loving they would consider you to be to say they are not all saved, which in effect destroys the efficacy of infant baptism, something they hold dear. And I wonder how they would feel about you claiming that they hold man made trade traditions to be of more value than the written Word of God, since they distrust Sola Scriptura and heavily fault us for it, as if we were incapable of thinking for ourself; on that basis alone they can make you wrong, as you need the pope and the magesterium (sp?) to interpret for you and tell you what the revealed written Word of God means. How would they feel about being told that Roman Catholicism is largely pagan? Have you seen the reactions? Do you really consider that your saying those things to them is somehow magically more loving, less judgemental, and more God given than someone else saying them? I don't recall Jesus ever apologizing for speaking the Truth to people. "Oh, I'm sorry, does the truth offend you? My sincerest apologies." Can you imagine? He would have been apologising a lot. Can you imagine how hurt Peter's feelings were to have Jesus call him Satan? I wonder.
 

epostle

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Oct 24, 2015
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I wonder how loving they would consider you to be to say they are not all saved, which in effect destroys the efficacy of infant baptism, something they hold dear.


Catholics don't make judgments on who is saved and who is not, the way you do. John Calvin taught infant baptism, but you would never mouth off to a Calvinist moderator.


And I wonder how they would feel about you claiming that they hold man made trade traditions to be of more value than the written Word of God, since they distrust Sola Scriptura

Sola scriptura is a man made tradition. There is no evidence of it existing until Martin Luther invented it.
and heavily fault us for it, as if we were incapable of thinking for ourself; on that basis alone they can make you wrong, as you need the pope and the magesterium (sp?) to interpret for you and tell you what the revealed written Word of God means.
Jesus commissioned the Church he founded to teach, He did not commission individual bible readers to teach from private opinions, which the Bible warns against. The Pope and the Magisterium are in the Bible, your blind prejudice prevents you from seeing it. .
How would they feel about being told that Roman Catholicism is largely pagan?
It's a persecuting, insulting lie invented in the 18th century and propagated by cults.
"...Opponents of the Church often attempt to discredit Catholicism by attempting to show similarities between it and the beliefs or practices of ancient paganism. This fallacy is frequently committed by Fundamentalists against Catholics, by Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and others against both Protestants and Catholics, and by atheists and skeptics against both Christians and Jews..."
Is Catholicism Pagan? | Catholic Answers
Have you seen the reactions? Do you really consider that your saying those things to them is somehow magically more loving, less judgemental, and more God given than someone else saying them? I don't recall Jesus ever apologizing for speaking the Truth to people.

Some of what you say is the truth. Some is just funnymentalist propaganda that cannot withstand scrutiny.
"Oh, I'm sorry, does the truth offend you? My sincerest apologies." Can you imagine? He would have been apologising a lot. Can you imagine how hurt Peter's feelings were to have Jesus call him Satan? I wonder.
Peter wasn't teaching, he didn't understand why Jesus would take such risks going to Jerusalem. He knew Jesus would be killed. Peter was scolded for trying to prevent Jesus from picking up his cross. That's why He called Peter Satan. Jesus then goes on to explain redemptive suffering, a concept that is not in your theology.

Matt. 10:38 - Jesus said, "he who does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me." Jesus defines discipleship as one's willingness to suffer with Him. Being a disciple of Jesus not only means having faith in Him, but offering our sufferings to the Father as He did.


Matt. 16:24; Mark 8:34 - Jesus said, "if any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." Jesus wants us to empty ourselves so that God can fill us. When we suffer, we can choose to seek consolation in God and become closer to Jesus.


Luke 9:23 - Jesus says we must take up this cross daily. He requires us to join our daily temporal sacrifices (pain, inconvenience, worry) with His eternal sacrifice.


Luke 14:27 - Jesus said, "whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple." If we reject God because we suffer, we fail to apply the graces that Jesus won for us by His suffering.


John 7:39 - Jesus was first glorified on the cross, not just the resurrection. This text refers to John 19:34, when Jesus was pierced on the cross by the soldier's lance.

1 Cor. 1:23- Paul preaches a Christ crucified, not just risen. Catholic spirituality focuses on the sacrifice of Christ which is the only means to the resurrection. This is why Catholic churches have crucifixes with the corpus of Jesus affixed to them. Many Protestant churches no longer display the corpus of Jesus (only an empty cross). Thus, they only preach a Christ risen, not crucified.

Phil. 1:29 - for the sake of Christ we are not only to believe in Him but also to suffer for His sake. Growing in holiness requires more than having faith in God and accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. We must also willfully embrace the suffering that befalls us as part of God's plan. Thus, Christ does not want our faith alone, but our faith in action which includes faith in suffering.

Col. 1:24 - Paul rejoices in his sufferings and completes what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of His body. This proves the Catholic position regarding the efficacy of suffering. Is there something lacking in Christ's sufferings? Of course not. But because Jesus loves us so much, He allows us to participate in His redemptive suffering by leaving room in His mystical body for our own suffering. Our suffering, united with our Lord's suffering, furthers the work of His redemption. more verses here

Tell me what happens to all those people who go to a healing service and they don't get healed. They end up sitting at the back pew because they don't have their holiness badge. I've seen it.
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
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I wonder how loving they would consider you to be to say they are not all saved, which in effect destroys the efficacy of infant baptism, something they hold dear. And I wonder how they would feel about you claiming that they hold man made trade traditions to be of more value than the written Word of God, since they distrust Sola Scriptura and heavily fault us for it, as if we were incapable of thinking for ourself; on that basis alone they can make you wrong, as you need the pope and the magesterium (sp?) to interpret for you and tell you what the revealed written Word of God means. How would they feel about being told that Roman Catholicism is largely pagan? Have you seen the reactions? Do you really consider that your saying those things to them is somehow magically more loving, less judgemental, and more God given than someone else saying them? I don't recall Jesus ever apologizing for speaking the Truth to people. "Oh, I'm sorry, does the truth offend you? My sincerest apologies." Can you imagine? He would have been apologising a lot. Can you imagine how hurt Peter's feelings were to have Jesus call him Satan? I wonder.
You ignored my first question twice, "did Jesus love His mother?" and you didn't answer any of my follow up quests either, which proves you are incapable of civilized discussion.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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The bigots have really come out of the woodwork in this thread in their (apparent) "contending earnestly for the faith!" Jude v3,4

You've won no arguement but just managed to carve up other members of the Body of Christ with your hard loveless (and sometimes bitter) attitudes!

Pathetic!