The Catholics and my conclusion

[Magenta]

Catholics don't make judgments on who is saved and who is not, the way you do.

Where is your evidence that I make that judgment? You would have to fabricate some. You have proven you are incapable of civilized discussion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Catholics don't make judgments on who is saved and who is not, the way you do. John Calvin taught infant baptism, but you would never mouth off to a Calvinist moderator.

Of course they would not. A catholic does not even think one can know they are saved until they get to heaven, so how could they (of their own doctrinal teaching) judge anyone elses salvation when they teach no one can know they are saved.This line of reasoning is prety sad..

As for judging calvins doctrines, Happens all the time in here, Maybe you are selectively seeing what you want to see so you miss that fact?

Sola scriptura is a man made tradition. There is no evidence of it existing until Martin Luther invented it.

Actually it was taught by Paul peter and all the apostles. They places scripture as their guide, their proof, and their master (since scripture they saw as the living word of God thus God himself)

it was not until rome had to get away from scripture because scripture did not support their man made doctrines that sola scriptura even became a topic of debate.

Jesus commissioned the Church he founded to teach, He did not commission individual bible readers to teach from private opinions, which the Bible warns against. The Pope and the Magisterium are in the Bible, your blind prejudice prevents you from seeing it. . It's a persecuting, insulting lie invented in the 18th century and propagated by cults.

Jesus commissioned people to teach is word He did not commision some church which rejects his word as sole authority.

Paul even said he had more respect for someone who tested what he taught by the word of God then people who just took him blindly. He tells us the word is able to make us complete. not men.

"...Opponents of the Church often attempt to discredit Catholicism by attempting to show similarities between it and the beliefs or practices of ancient paganism. This fallacy is frequently committed by Fundamentalists against Catholics, by Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and others against both Protestants and Catholics, and by atheists and skeptics against both Christians and Jews..."

Is Catholicism Pagan? | Catholic Answers

Sadly, If their doctrines did not closely resemble these ancient pagan doctrines, and instead more closely resembled that of Gods people. this would never happen now would it.

Some of what you say is the truth. Some is just funnymentalist propaganda that cannot withstand scrutiny.
Peter wasn't teaching, he didn't understand why Jesus would take such risks going to Jerusalem. He knew Jesus would be killed. Peter was scolded for trying to prevent Jesus from picking up his cross. That's why He called Peter Satan. Jesus then goes on to explain redemptive suffering, a concept that is not in your theology.

redemptive suffering? Did not know that was a term taught by scripture.

Redemptive death of Christ, yes, that is taught, but suffering to pay for sin. no where is that taught. except by false prophets and false teachers.

Matt. 10:38 - Jesus said, "he who does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me." Jesus defines discipleship as one's willingness to suffer with Him. Being a disciple of Jesus not only means having faith in Him, but offering our sufferings to the Father as He did.

He never said this would save you. He said those who want to follow him will do this.. HUGE difference.

Matt. 16:24; Mark 8:34 - Jesus said, "if any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." Jesus wants us to empty ourselves so that God can fill us. When we suffer, we can choose to seek consolation in God and become closer to Jesus.

again he never said a person would be saved by doiing this. so whats your point?
Luke 9:23 - Jesus says we must take up this cross daily. He requires us to join our daily temporal sacrifices (pain, inconvenience, worry) with His eternal sacrifice.

Luke 14:27 - Jesus said, "whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple." If we reject God because we suffer, we fail to apply the graces that Jesus won for us by His suffering.

Who has faith in God and would reject God. Why do you lack so much faiht in God that you would claim he could fail someone, and they would lose faith?

John 7:39 - Jesus was first glorified on the cross, not just the resurrection. This text refers to John 19:34, when Jesus was pierced on the cross by the soldier's lance.

1 Cor. 1:23- Paul preaches a Christ crucified, not just risen. Catholic spirituality focuses on the sacrifice of Christ which is the only means to the resurrection. This is why Catholic churches have crucifixes with the corpus of Jesus affixed to them. Many Protestant churches no longer display the corpus of Jesus (only an empty cross). Thus, they only preach a Christ risen, not crucified.

Phil. 1:29 - for the sake of Christ we are not only to believe in Him but also to suffer for His sake. Growing in holiness requires more than having faith in God and accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. We must also willfully embrace the suffering that befalls us as part of God's plan. Thus, Christ does not want our faith alone, but our faith in action which includes faith in suffering.

Col. 1:24 - Paul rejoices in his sufferings and completes what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of His body. This proves the Catholic position regarding the efficacy of suffering. Is there something lacking in Christ's sufferings? Of course not. But because Jesus loves us so much, He allows us to participate in His redemptive suffering by leaving room in His mystical body for our own suffering. Our suffering, united with our Lord's suffering, furthers the work of His redemption. more verses here

Alot of "I" in here, and not so much Christ in here. And I see nothign in any of those verses which say one must do this to be saved, I see alot of instriction given to true disciples of Christ, and how they should act.. But nothing which says if you want to get to heaven, do this.

When are you going to stop trying to save yourself and let God save you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where is your evidence that I make that judgment? You would have to fabricate some. You have proven you are incapable of civilized discussion.

they are to busy trying to defend themselves (like God needs defending) then wanting to understand what someone is realy saying..

 

[Magenta]

Catholics don't make judgments on who is saved and who is not, the way you do. John Calvin taught infant baptism, but you would never mouth off to a Calvinist moderator.
Sola scriptura is a man made tradition. There is no evidence of it existing until Martin Luther invented it.
Jesus commissioned the Church he founded to teach, He did not commission individual bible readers to teach from private opinions, which the Bible warns against. The Pope and the Magisterium are in the Bible, your blind prejudice prevents you from seeing it. . It's a persecuting, insulting lie invented in the 18th century and propagated by cults.
"...Opponents of the Church often attempt to discredit Catholicism by attempting to show similarities between it and the beliefs or practices of ancient paganism. This fallacy is frequently committed by Fundamentalists against Catholics, by Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and others against both Protestants and Catholics, and by atheists and skeptics against both Christians and Jews..."
Is Catholicism Pagan? | Catholic Answers

Some of what you say is the truth. Some is just funnymentalist propaganda that cannot withstand scrutiny.
Peter wasn't teaching, he didn't understand why Jesus would take such risks going to Jerusalem. He knew Jesus would be killed. Peter was scolded for trying to prevent Jesus from picking up his cross. That's why He called Peter Satan. Jesus then goes on to explain redemptive suffering, a concept that is not in your theology.

Matt. 10:38 - Jesus said, "he who does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me." Jesus defines discipleship as one's willingness to suffer with Him. Being a disciple of Jesus not only means having faith in Him, but offering our sufferings to the Father as He did.


Matt. 16:24; Mark 8:34 - Jesus said, "if any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." Jesus wants us to empty ourselves so that God can fill us. When we suffer, we can choose to seek consolation in God and become closer to Jesus.


Luke 9:23 - Jesus says we must take up this cross daily. He requires us to join our daily temporal sacrifices (pain, inconvenience, worry) with His eternal sacrifice.


Luke 14:27 - Jesus said, "whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple." If we reject God because we suffer, we fail to apply the graces that Jesus won for us by His suffering.


John 7:39 - Jesus was first glorified on the cross, not just the resurrection. This text refers to John 19:34, when Jesus was pierced on the cross by the soldier's lance.

1 Cor. 1:23- Paul preaches a Christ crucified, not just risen. Catholic spirituality focuses on the sacrifice of Christ which is the only means to the resurrection. This is why Catholic churches have crucifixes with the corpus of Jesus affixed to them. Many Protestant churches no longer display the corpus of Jesus (only an empty cross). Thus, they only preach a Christ risen, not crucified.

Phil. 1:29 - for the sake of Christ we are not only to believe in Him but also to suffer for His sake. Growing in holiness requires more than having faith in God and accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. We must also willfully embrace the suffering that befalls us as part of God's plan. Thus, Christ does not want our faith alone, but our faith in action which includes faith in suffering.

Col. 1:24 - Paul rejoices in his sufferings and completes what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of His body. This proves the Catholic position regarding the efficacy of suffering. Is there something lacking in Christ's sufferings? Of course not. But because Jesus loves us so much, He allows us to participate in His redemptive suffering by leaving room in His mystical body for our own suffering. Our suffering, united with our Lord's suffering, furthers the work of His redemption. more verses here

Tell me what happens to all those people who go to a healing service and they don't get healed. They end up sitting at the back pew because they don't have their holiness badge. I've seen it.

You have more than once asked for one or two points at a time only. Here is more proof you refuse to follow your own advice. One must assume you give it since you have no use for it yourself!

 

[Magenta]

Catholics don't make judgments on who is saved and who is not, the way you do. John Calvin taught infant baptism, but you would never mouth off to a Calvinist moderator.

Who are you mouthing off to, and why? Are you making another faulty assumption that I am a Calvinist?

 

[Magenta]

Sola scriptura is a man made tradition. There is no evidence of it existing until Martin Luther invented it.
Jesus commissioned the Church he founded to teach,

He did not teach your man made traditions of Mariology.

 

[Utah]

I'm sad to admit as a Catholic, but MANY think they are saved simply by going to Church on Sundays and taking communion. They don't LOVE God, or Jesus, or our Most Blessed Virgin Mother

Those red letters. It churns my stomach.

 

[valiant]

You are trying to learn and to be fair in your discernment, but there is a great deal that you still do not understand.
May God bless you in moving towards an authentic study of the Catholic Church.

I love the stories of the martyrs in my Church. I'll share one with you.

Teaching and preaching on the road to martyrdom (about 100 A.D.);
Perhaps no martyr went to his death with such prolonged fanfare as Saint Ignatius of Antioch. For refusing to worship the pagan gods, Ignatius was condemned to be fed to wild beasts in the Colosseum in Rome, and he was led there in chains by a route that started in Asia Minor.

But who was Ignatius, He was bishop of a city church, not of a see. That is how you cheat by reading in what is not there. He was certainly NOT a member of the Roman Catholic church. Antioch was separate from Rome, so he was not even a member of the Roman church. The Roman Catholic church would not exist for another seven hundred years when it seceded from 'the Catholic (universal) church'.

At Antioch he had been appointed with apostolic approval as the city's third bishop, in a see founded by Saint Peter himself

.

There was no see. It was a city church. Every city had its one church. He was thus the chief overseer (not bishop as we know of them) of the Antiochene church. Peter did not found a see. He established a church.,

While traveling to his death, Ignatius was greeted and applauded by Christians all along the way, and he wrote letters to the various communities, with instruction in theology accompanied by pastoral exhortations. In his letters, we see the first appearance of the Greek word katholikos, describing the Church as "complete", "universal," and "whole", for he wrote, "Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

So he acknowledged that the church he was referring to was NOT the Roman Catholic church. It was the universal church made up of Celtic church, Eastern Orthodox, Baptist, and many other Orthodox and Catholic churches not connected to Rome. Indeed when he wrote to Rome he knew that Rome had no single bishop, so addressed the church as a whole.

He called for the faithful to be respectful of the ecclesial structure of the infant Church:

In which there were no archbishops, no priests, and so on. each church had overseers, deacons and elders. No one church exerted authority over others.

"Take care to do all things in harmony with God, with the bishop presiding in the place of God,

the overseer/pastor of each church.

and with the presbyters (priests) in the place of the council of the Apostles,

the elders (NOT priest) who were over all church arrangements in individual churches.

and with the deacons, who are most dear to me, entrusted with the business of Jesus Christ, who was with the Father from the beginning and is at last made manifest."

the servants who ministered in each individual church. These bore no relationship to modern deacons.

That the story of one of the many martyrs in my Church who gave themselves up to death before worshiping pagan gods.

You lie. He was NOT on your church. If anything he was primitive eastern orthodox (although they did not yet exist). Yours is the dishonesty which shows even the milder form of the Roman Catholic church to be full of deceit.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

BREAKING NEWS!!! MAP MAKERS AND GEOGRAPHERS HAVE MADE A STARTLING DISCOVERY!
The Vatican does not sit on the seven hills of Rome! You have to cross the Tiber River from the Vatican to get to the seven hills! Who knew?!?

"The sevenheads represent seven hills on which the woman sits." First ofall, no Pope has ever lived or had his "seat" (cathedra orcathedral) on any of the seven hills of Rome. These hills are small hillocks (Capitoline, Palatine, Esquiline, Aventine and three lesser"bumps" in central Rome) where the religion and governmentof pagan Rome was situated.

View attachment 138273
So, of what was St. John speaking when he wrote Revelation on the island of Patmos around 96 AD?Obviously of the pagan imperial system situated on the Seven Hills.Especially the Capitoline (the religious and political center) and the Palatine (the imperial palace). This pagan power persecuted the Church of Rome in Nero's day (64-67 AD), and in the mid-90s under Domitian was persecuting Christians throughout the Roman world.Domitian was considered by the people a re-incarnation of the evil,but well-liked, Nero (the head that lives again). While theantichrist Nero persecuted only the Christians of Rome, Domitian extended that persecution through the empire. Both are thus types of the final persecutor.


WHAT THE "BIBLE CHRISTIAN" HATE CULTS DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW:
THE SPIRITUALITY OF THE ANTI-CHRIST ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:

In St. John's letters (1 John 4, 2 John 1), he tells us that the spirit of the Antichrist denies the Incarnation (the Son of God becoming man) and thereby also the Trinity (the Father and the Spirit, too).
THIS IS THESPIRIT OF ANTI-CHRIST.
There is not asingle text in 2000 years, including the new Catechism of the Catholic Church, where the Catholic Church, her popes, her bishops, her official teachings,her saints, or her acknowledged ecclesiastical authors, deny the Word-made-flesh or the Blessed Trinity.Instead, all of Christianity owes the preservation of these Truths to the Catholic Church, whose great Councils formulated them and whose saints and popes have defended them to this day, often at the cost of martyrdom.

The Whore of Babylon is not the Catholic Church, don't fall for funnymentalist propaganda.

Of all the things you and I would disagree on, this is one thing we could agree on

 

[Ahwatukee]

Good Morning Epostle,

Catholics don't make judgments on who is saved and who is not, the way you do. John Calvin taught infant baptism, but you would never mouth off to a Calvinist moderator.

Baptism has to do with identifying ourselves with Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Going down into the water is symbolic for dying with Christ and the old nature and coming up the new man in Christ. Therefore, infant baptism would not be practical or beneficial for an infant and that because they would not be aware of what is being done to them and they would not have lived in order to experience the sinful nature to know what they dying to. The only reason that the RCC baptizes infants is because of their belief that baptism cleanses one of sin, which is false. For without the individuals receiving of Christ as personal Lord and Savior, baptism alone means nothing and a infant isn't even aware that he/she even exists, much less have an understanding of the sinful nature. Regarding the spiritual state of infants, scripture states the following:

"For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy."

Sola scriptura is a man made tradition. There is no evidence of it existing until Martin Luther invented it.

The reason for sola scriptura, that is, the Bible being the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice, is because one, it is the word of God which he gave us and two, without scripture there is no way to verify whether or not what anyone is teaching as being the truth, which means that you would just have to take their word for it. A good example of this, is when Paul said that the Bereans Jews were more of noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. The word of God is necessary for us to know what is the truth and what is false.

Jesus commissioned the Church he founded to teach, He did not commission individual bible readers to teach from private opinions, which the Bible warns against. The Pope and the Magisterium are in the Bible, your blind prejudice prevents you from seeing it.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

The servant of God is everyone who belongs to him both men and women. The Church was never meant to have one leader over it. In fact regarding this Jesus said the following:

"But Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them. But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must become your servant."

Roman Catholicism is a hierarchy of priests, cardinals, bishops and pope's, exactly the opposite of what Jesus states above.

It's a persecuting, insulting lie invented in the 18th century and propagated by cults.
"...Opponents of the Church often attempt to discredit Catholicism by attempting to show similarities between it and the beliefs or practices of ancient paganism. This fallacy is frequently committed by Fundamentalists against Catholics, by Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and others against both Protestants and Catholics, and by atheists and skeptics against both Christians and Jews..."

Again, this why the word of God is the sole authority of all that is the truth, which is how the true believer can determine whether the RCC or any system of belief is of God. The true believer doesn't need to pay attention to what anyone in the 18th or any century said, because we can compare the teachings of the RCC with those of Scripture and it immediately becomes evident that the RCC doesn't measure up with Scripture on many levels.

Luke 9:23 - Jesus says we must take up this cross daily. He requires us to join our daily temporal sacrifices (pain, inconvenience, worry) with His eternal sacrifice.

Many people interpret “cross” as some burden they must carry in their lives: a strained relationship, a thankless job, a physical illness. With self-pitying pride, they say, “That’s my cross I have to carry.” Such an interpretation is not what Jesus meant when He said, “Take up your cross and follow Me.”

"Take up your cross and follow Me” means being willing to die in order to follow Jesus. This is called “dying to self.” It’s a call to absolute surrender." As believer's we need to always be prepared to go through persecution and even death keeping the testimony of Jesus and the word of God.

This is why Catholic churches have crucifixes with the corpus of Jesus affixed to them. Many Protestant churches no longer display the corpus of Jesus (only an empty cross). Thus, they only preach a Christ risen, not crucified.

Neither crucifixes, St. Christopher medals, rosary beads, miter hats, smoke of God, holy water, etc., are not required for salvation and are in fact just religious relics and artifacts created by the tradition of men.

Come out of her my people so that you will not partake of her plagues. For her sins are piled up to heaven and God has remembered her crimes.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Also, to Blain, dont take this the wrong way at all. I really like you, I think its awesome that you want to get closer to God, and I totally thought it was not in any way a bad thing to learn more about the catholic faith. But when you talked about how we should be more loving to them, that we can be too mean to them, I kinda hope that the behavior of the catholics here taught you something This is what debating the word of God is, its 100% serious, and not to be taken lightly, or treated like a playful "lets agree to disagree" opinion like youd have with your friends about your favorite tv show or video game Its everything that matters, the entire truth of the world around you, and you should always stand up when you know someone is adding things into it that are not from God.


The catholics here are on fire, too. Im 100% sure they dont hate us, but love us, and really do believe their church is true. We should always want to bring them the word of God, and love is absolutely a part of it, but there are times for debating too. Its the way the world is, its not hate, we still love them. But the truth is the truth, and we should always stand by it. If not, we let ourselves be lead away into the hands of the wolves.

Anywho, Im way happy to hear that you see whats in the word of God, too. I kinda did the same thing you did with islam. I had talked to some muslims before I came to Christ, so I did deal with some false teachings about how Christ was just another prophet that I didnt know how to understand when coming to Him. So I had to learn His word on that too. I didnt just trust the word of mohammad on this, I also had to see what Christ said Himself, and the life He lead. And through that, I found that the quran actually literally stands against EVERYTHING muhammad said Like, he is almost the opposite of everything Christ was And now through that, my faith has become stronger, and I feel I better understand Him.

I didnt want you to judge the catholic faith on the people, and what they say, but what God says, and THEN take what they say and compare it to their words. Everything needs to be judged on Christs teachings. Now that you have found Christ, you can also try to help those who are seeking Him in the catholic church find Him in His word, and not from their church :3

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

*That probly sounded like Im trying to teach you something, as if Im more knowing than you : p I didnt mean it like that : p I meant with this one issue, haha : p

Im just coming to Christ in truth from just last year, Im not trying to be an expert here : p Ive dealt with dealing with the religions of the earth and their battle against the Christians a little bit, and have learned from my experience that we really need to use His word before judging, and I was just worried about you not doing that already.

Dont take my posts the wrong way.

 

[epostle]

But who was Ignatius, He was bishop of a city church, not of a see. That is how you cheat by reading in what is not there. He was certainly NOT a member of the Roman Catholic church. Antioch was separate from Rome, so he was not even a member of the Roman church. The Roman Catholic church would not exist for another seven hundred years when it seceded from 'the Catholic (universal) church'.

All of the Churches were under the jurisdiction of the successors of Peter. There is plenty of historical evidence to prove this. The "individual church theory" has never held up to scrutiny. The Catholic Church cannot succeed from herself, that is absurd.

There was no see. It was a city church. Every city had its one church. He was thus the chief overseer (not bishop as we know of them) of the Antiochene church. Peter did not found a see. He established a church.,

Ignatius of Antioch was a student of John the Apostle and 3rd bishop of Jerusalem.

So he acknowledged that the church he was referring to was NOT the Roman Catholic church.

Please ditch the word "Roman" as a prefix. It was first used as an insult by the Anglicans in the 16th century.

It was the universal church made up of Celtic church, Eastern Orthodox, Baptist, and many other Orthodox and Catholic churches not connected to Rome.

The "Celtic" church was established in Ireland several centuries later.

Indeed when he wrote to Rome he knew that Rome had no single bishop, so addressed the church as a whole.

Let's examine a few more quotes from Ignatius of Antioch and see if they line up with what you say:

"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

Theodoret mentions Ignatius
"So have I learnt not only from the apostles and prophets but also from the interpreters of their writings, Ignatius, Eustathius, Athanasius, Basil, Gregory, John, and the rest of the lights of the world; and before these from the holy Fathers in council at Nicea, whose confession of the faith I preserve in its integrity, like an ancestral inheritance, styling corrupt and enemies of the truth all who dare to transgress its decrees."
Theodoret of Cyrus, To Florentius, Epistle 89 (A.D. 449).

“It is better to be silent and be real than to talk and not be real.”
(Letter to the Ephesians15.1)

“It is right, therefore, that we not just be called Christians, but that we actually be Christians.”
(Letter to the Magnesians 4.1)

“Christianity is greatest when it is hated by the world.”
(Letter to the Romans 3.3.)

“Flee from wicked practices; better yet, preach a sermon about them.” (Letter to Polycarp5.1)
You must all follow the lead of the bishop, as Jesus Christ followed that of the Father; follow the presbytery as you would the Apostles; reverence the deacons as you would God's commandment. Ignatius of Antioch


May nothing entice me till I happily make my way to Jesus Christ! Fire, cross, struggles with wild beasts, wrenching of bones, mangling of limbs - let them come to me, provided only I make my way to Jesus Christ.
Ignatius of Antioch
Read more at Ignatius of Antioch Quotes - BrainyQuote

In which there were no archbishops, no priests, and so on. each church had overseers, deacons and elders. No one church exerted authority over others.

Maybe its because you fail to see the difference between ecclesiastical jurisdiction and exerted authority. Dominating dictatorship is a funnymentalist myth.

the elders (NOT priest) who were over all church arrangements in individual churches.

An elder is the same as priest. In fact, the term “priest” is simply a shortened, English version of the Greek word for “elder” - presbuteros - as any dictionary will confirm. This is any some Old Catholic translations render the word as “priests” where Protestant Bibles have “elder.” Office of the New Testament Priesthood

the servants who ministered in each individual church. These bore no relationship to modern deacons.

You lie. He was NOT on your church. If anything he was primitive eastern orthodox (although they did not yet exist). Yours is the dishonesty which shows even the milder form of the Roman Catholic church to be full of deceit.

St. Ignatius of Antioch was in a orthodox church that didn't yet exist? I wouldn't call you deceitful, but the statement is rather stupid.

 

[Mec99]

Most of us True Christians on this site are missing the point with the Catholics and i'm also guilty of missing this very important point.

God positively decrees the election of some and negatively decrees the reprorbation of others. The positive side refers to God's active intervention in the lives of the elect to work Faith in their hearts. The negative refers to His passing them by and withholding His regenerating Grace from them.

If we are not really ashamed of the Gospel, we must acknowledge what is declared that God by His eternal goodwill appointed those whom He pleased unto Salvation,rejecting all the rest. Those whom He blessed with the free adoption to be His sons He illumines by the Holy Spirit, that they may receive the life which is offered to them in Christ. While others, continuing of their own free will in unbelief, are left destitute of the Light of Faith, in total darkness.

Therefore are we going against the will of the Father when we insist others,the Catholics, must accept Salvation from God? They may very well have been predestined not to accept God like us True Christians were.

2 Peter 2:4-10
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
[SUP]6 [/SUP] if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked
[SUP]8 [/SUP] (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard);
[SUP]9 [/SUP] then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority. Bold and willful, they do not tremble as they blaspheme the glorious ones


Romans 8:29-30
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

 

[epostle]

CATHOLIC - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

​

CATHOLIC comes from the Greek word Katholikos, which was later Latinized into Catholicus.
It means 'Universal', which in itself means, 'of or relating to, or affecting the entire world and ALL peoples therein'. It means, ALL encompassing, comprehensibly broad, general, and containing ALL that is necessary. In summation, it means ALL people in ALL places, having ALL that is necessary, and for ALL time.

It is inferred in Matthew 28:19-20, "Go, therefore and make disciples of ALL nations...teaching them to observe ALL that I have commanded you; And behold, I am with you ALL days, even unto the consummation of the world." That is a statement of Universality, Katholicos, Catholicus, Catholic.

Rom. 1:8 ….and you belong to that Church whose faith St. Paul describes as being "proclaimed (KATanggeletai) in the whole universe (en HOLO to kosmo)”

Thus the word KATAHOLOS or Catholic in English originated from Scriptures - Romans 1:8

"Where the Bishop appears, there let the people be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
St. Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Smyrneans, paragraph 8, of 106 A.D.,

Undoubtedly the word was in use before the time of this writing. What about Constantine? He wouldn't be born for another 250 years.

Written records of the term "CATHOLIC" describing a character of the Christian Church:
Ignatius, Letter to the Smyrneans 106AD;
Martyrdom of St. Polycarp 155AD;
Clement of Alexandria, Stromateis 202AD;
Cyprian, Unity of the Catholic Church 251AD;
Cyprian, Letter to Florentius, 254AD


"Christian is my name, and Catholic my surname. The one designates me, while the other makes me specific. Thus am I attested and set apart... When we are called Catholics it is by this appellation that our people are kept apart from any heretical name."
Saint Pacian of Barcelona, Letter to Sympronian, 375 A.D.

This is primary source documentation, not somebody's opinions.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

CATHOLIC - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

​

CATHOLIC comes from the Greek word Katholikos, which was later Latinized into Catholicus.
It means 'Universal', which in itself means, 'of or relating to, or affecting the entire world and ALL peoples therein'. It means, ALL encompassing, comprehensibly broad, general, and containing ALL that is necessary. In summation, it means ALL people in ALL places, having ALL that is necessary, and for ALL time.

It is inferred in Matthew 28:19-20, "Go, therefore and make disciples of ALL nations...teaching them to observe ALL that I have commanded you; And behold, I am with you ALL days, even unto the consummation of the world." That is a statement of Universality, Katholicos, Catholicus, Catholic.

Rom. 1:8 ….and you belong to that Church whose faith St. Paul describes as being "proclaimed (KATanggeletai) in the whole universe (en HOLO to kosmo)”

Thus the word KATAHOLOS or Catholic in English originated from Scriptures - Romans 1:8

"Where the Bishop appears, there let the people be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
St. Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Smyrneans, paragraph 8, of 106 A.D.,

Undoubtedly the word was in use before the time of this writing. What about Constantine? He wouldn't be born for another 250 years.

Written records of the term "CATHOLIC" describing a character of the Christian Church:
Ignatius, Letter to the Smyrneans 106AD;
Martyrdom of St. Polycarp 155AD;
Clement of Alexandria, Stromateis 202AD;
Cyprian, Unity of the Catholic Church 251AD;
Cyprian, Letter to Florentius, 254AD


"Christian is my name, and Catholic my surname. The one designates me, while the other makes me specific. Thus am I attested and set apart... When we are called Catholics it is by this appellation that our people are kept apart from any heretical name."
Saint Pacian of Barcelona, Letter to Sympronian, 375 A.D.

This is primary source documentation, not somebody's opinions.

Non of that makes a catholic in the sense of the roman church a chid of God

Non of that makes a catholic, in the roman sense, the true church of God.

Calling a church catholic no more makes it the universal church of god than some church calling itself the church of Christ makes it a true church of Christ.

it is what is being taught and what a person places their faith in (actually WHO a person places their faith in ) that makes an assembly of believers a true church. Not what the name is.

 

[Mec99]

Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus (1854).

It was in 1854 when the Catholic Church created the Doctrine that Mary was born without sin. Before 1854 they was no official Doctrine that Mary was without sin.

I find it amazing that it took the Catholics over 1800 years to suddenly realize that Mary was without sin!

1854 marks the date when the Catholics walked away from God to follow and Worship Mary as their God.

 

[epostle]

Of course the Roman Catholic church is in denial of the truth...message truncated...

Bartholomew F. Brewer
Hugh Farrell.
Charles Berry.
Bob Bush.

As you can see, even Roman Catholic Priests can discover the truth found in God's Word and escape the error of the Roman Catholic system of works' righteousness and so can you. To God be the glory.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one can boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).

"There two types of works. Not by works of the law (Paul) but good works (James) which is inseparable. Works is the same as love. You cannot separate love from faith. Some of you probably do this instinctively when you perform any act of mercy. (they are listed). No Christian should do good for a reward, we do good because we love our (sometimes annoying) neighbor. How is that possible? By the grace of Christ. When you look at it that way, it's what we all aspire to. This constant drum-beat of "works righteousness" is ridiculous. And contrary to several encyclicals since the first "works righteousness" heretic, Pelagius, was renounced by the Church in the six century. Yet the myth prevails.

mailmandan, since you posted a short list of priests who left the priesthood, I see no reason why I can't post some going the other way.

The Scott Hahn Conversion Story

Here following is the transcript of a talk given by Scott Hahn outlining his journey of faith, a journey that took him from being a fervent Presbyterian minister and Professor of Theology at a major Protestant seminary to become a Roman Catholic Theologian and internationally known apologist for the Catholic Church. Through study and prayer Scott Hahn came to realize that the truth of the Catholic Church is firmly rooted in Scripture.
read more here

video format https://www.youtube....h?v=XyFuaXlYo8Q

Francis Beckwith was president of the Evangelical Theological Society, an association of 4,300 Protestant theologians. Now he has returned to the Church of his baptism.

Read more here:

Ulf was a restless secular teenager. He turned his life to Christ from the witness of a friend. Birgitta was born in India to Methodist missionary parents. Ulf and Birgitta met at university, while Ulf was studying for ministry in the Lutheran Church. After they were married they were both active in the Charismatic renewal. From this they founded the Word of Life Bible School out of which grew a megachurch. As their ministry grew, they began to encounter Catholics. They began to ask, “What is the essence of the Church?” After living in Israel for three years, the witness of Catholic began a journey for them that would lead them Home to the Catholic Church.
read more here (accompanying video)

Pastor and Flock Convert to CatholicismWhen Pentecostal minister Alex Jones came into the Church this past Easter he was not alone. He brought much of his congregation in with him. read more here

Dr. Robert Koons

A life-long, active Missouri-Synod Lutheran, Dr. Robert Koons made the shocking announcement in 2006 that he was planning on entering the Catholic Church.

"I teach metaphysics, philosophy of religion, philosophical logic, and ancient and medieval philosophy at the University of Texas. I've been at UT for 24 years, after having studied philosophy at Michigan State, Oxford and UCLA. I have authored two books, Paradoxes of Belief and Strategic Rationality (Cambridge Univ., 1997) and Realism Regained (Oxford Univ., 2000), and co-edited a third, The Waning of Materialism (OUP, 2010, with George Bealer). Tim Pickavance and I are at work on a textbook in Metaphysics for Blackwell/Wiley. I serve on the Executive Committee of the Society of Christian Philosophers, and I'm a senior fellow with the Discovery Institute's Center for Science & Culture and the Witherspoon Institute, and I'm a member of the Academic Council of the Jack Miller Center for Teaching America's Founding Principles and History. I'm the president of the Texas Association of Scholars, the statewide affiliate of the NAS, and Senator of the Phi Beta Kappa Society."
Dr. Robert Koons - Deep in Scripture 06/30/2010 - The Coming Home Network

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Of course the Roman Catholic church is in denial of the truth...message truncated...

Bartholomew F. Brewer
Hugh Farrell.
Charles Berry.
Bob Bush.

"There two types of works. Not by works of the law (Paul) but good works (James) which is inseparable. Works is the same as love. You cannot separate love from faith. Some of you probably do this instinctively when you perform any act of mercy. (they are listed). No Christian should do good for a reward, we do good because we love our (sometimes annoying) neighbor. How is that possible? By the grace of Christ. When you look at it that way, it's what we all aspire to. This constant drum-beat of "works righteousness" is ridiculous. And contrary to several encyclicals since the first "works righteousness" heretic, Pelagius, was renounced by the Church in the six century. Yet the myth prevails.

mailmandan, since you posted a short list of priests who left the priesthood, I see no reason why I can't post some going the other way.

The Scott Hahn Conversion Story

Here following is the transcript of a talk given by Scott Hahn outlining his journey of faith, a journey that took him from being a fervent Presbyterian minister and Professor of Theology at a major Protestant seminary to become a Roman Catholic Theologian and internationally known apologist for the Catholic Church. Through study and prayer Scott Hahn came to realize that the truth of the Catholic Church is firmly rooted in Scripture.
read more here

video format https://www.youtube....h?v=XyFuaXlYo8Q

Francis Beckwith was president of the Evangelical Theological Society, an association of 4,300 Protestant theologians. Now he has returned to the Church of his baptism.

Read more here:

Ulf was a restless secular teenager. He turned his life to Christ from the witness of a friend. Birgitta was born in India to Methodist missionary parents. Ulf and Birgitta met at university, while Ulf was studying for ministry in the Lutheran Church. After they were married they were both active in the Charismatic renewal. From this they founded the Word of Life Bible School out of which grew a megachurch. As their ministry grew, they began to encounter Catholics. They began to ask, “What is the essence of the Church?” After living in Israel for three years, the witness of Catholic began a journey for them that would lead them Home to the Catholic Church.
read more here (accompanying video)

Pastor and Flock Convert to CatholicismWhen Pentecostal minister Alex Jones came into the Church this past Easter he was not alone. He brought much of his congregation in with him. read more here

Dr. Robert Koons

A life-long, active Missouri-Synod Lutheran, Dr. Robert Koons made the shocking announcement in 2006 that he was planning on entering the Catholic Church.

"I teach metaphysics, philosophy of religion, philosophical logic, and ancient and medieval philosophy at the University of Texas. I've been at UT for 24 years, after having studied philosophy at Michigan State, Oxford and UCLA. I have authored two books, Paradoxes of Belief and Strategic Rationality (Cambridge Univ., 1997) and Realism Regained (Oxford Univ., 2000), and co-edited a third, The Waning of Materialism (OUP, 2010, with George Bealer). Tim Pickavance and I are at work on a textbook in Metaphysics for Blackwell/Wiley. I serve on the Executive Committee of the Society of Christian Philosophers, and I'm a senior fellow with the Discovery Institute's Center for Science & Culture and the Witherspoon Institute, and I'm a member of the Academic Council of the Jack Miller Center for Teaching America's Founding Principles and History. I'm the president of the Texas Association of Scholars, the statewide affiliate of the NAS, and Senator of the Phi Beta Kappa Society."
Dr. Robert Koons - Deep in Scripture 06/30/2010 - The Coming Home Network

another reason I would never follow roman catholic dogma.

They love to quote men, And use very little of Gods word. That more resembles what the Pharisees did. And not what the beginnings of the true church did.

 

[Utah]

Do Catholics worship Mary?