Replacement/Supersessionism Theology,Why it Matters

[GuessWho]

Jews as a whole are not culpable for Christs death. The Pharisees and elders sought to kill him,religious leaders.Why did they come after Jesus in dark of night? Why did they say they couldnt seize him for fear of starting a riot? Why was Judas paid 30 pieces of silver? Our sins make us all culpable for Christs death. Jew and Gentile.

Yes, our sins crucify Him. Jews as a whole reject Jesus Christ. I believe rejection of Jesus Christ is similar to re-crucifying Him.

And while it is true that our sins crucified Jesus Christ it is not less true that historically and concretely Jews played the principal role in Christ' crucifixion. Not the Romans. But the Jew leaders.

 

[kaylagrl]

Yes, our sins crucify Him. Jews as a whole reject Jesus Christ. I believe rejection of Jesus Christ is similar to re-crucifying Him.

And while it is true that our sins crucified Jesus Christ it is not less true that historically and concretely Jews played the principal role in Christ' crucifixion. Not the Romans. But the Jew leaders.

Yes the Jewish leaders. Jews have rejected Jesus but according to Romans 11 they will recognize him and be saved. They are blinded for a time.

 

[GuessWho]

Jews have rejected Jesus but according to Romans 11 they will recognize him and be saved. They are blinded for a time.

Correction: Jews still reject Jesus Christ, the Messiah, till these days. I pray to God that they will come to Jesus Christ!

 

[kaylagrl]

Correction: Jews still reject Jesus Christ, the Messiah, till these days. I pray to God that they will come to Jesus Christ!

They will! God never broke His unconditional promise to Abraham. There is a remnant who will believe.

 

[kaylagrl]

Jesus Christ Himself didn't call them beautiful names. Was he an antisemitic too? Even Stephen, the first martyr scolded the Jews for their KILLING of the Righteous One. In the same way, Saint John Chrysostom called them assassins, for what they did do the Messiah. Is the truth antisemitic?

When did the Christians persecuted the Jews? I only know about Jews persecuting Christians (read Acts), not the other way around.

Quote "When did the Christians persecuted the Jews? I only know about Jews persecuting Christians (read Acts), not the other way around."


Please dont take me as being ignorant here but you need to read history.The Catholic church and Protestant are both guilty of persecuting the Jews.The Jews have been kicked out of over 100 countries,can that be said of any other race? As I said before,the Catholics put Jews in ghettos and made them wear yellow stars long before Hitler did.Yes Christians have persecuted the Jews.


Quote "Jesus Christ Himself didn't call them beautiful names."

Jesus has a right to discipline His people,and mainly He was speaking of the Pharisees. We're not Jesus. His mercy saved us in spite of our sins.We have no bragging rights.

Quote ". In the same way, Saint John Chrysostom called them assassins, for what they did do the Messiah. Is the truth antisemitic? "

Chrysostom was 100% antisemitic .If you read what he said and dont see that you have a major problem! Im just saying,he was totally against the Jews. Its is quite smug of us to cast stones at the Jews for killing Jesus,for which all Jews are not culpable,when He died for our sins. A little self righteous. Romans tells the Gentiles not to act superior because we are grafted in. Christ said that no one takes His life from Him. He willingly laid it down for ALL!.

 

[kaylagrl]

Your logic, kaylagirl, is very dangerous and twisted.

You imply that if we deny the specialness of national Israel we align ourselves with Hitler. That's false and stupid. If I deny the specialness of national Israel is because I believe Jesus Christ, the New Testament and His Church (the true Israel).

No Im standing on what the Bible says. Israel is the apple of Gods eye.To bless them is to be blessed and to curse them is to be cursed. Read history if you dont believe that to be true. The Bible commands us to pray for the peace of Israel. So thats right out of the Bible.If you find that dangerous then you take it up with someone higher up then me.

Replacement Theology has been the means for persecution of the Jews down through history.Thats a fact.If you know history you know this to be true.Denying it is what is stupidity. There are numerous verses on Jews being Gods chosen,on God gathering the Jews back to their homeland,on Gods unfailing promises to the Jews. If you choose to ignore half of Scripture thats up to you.

Hitler aligned himself with the church,not the other way round.Many of the Catholic/Protestant churches had already persecuted the Jews.

Here are some examples from Pope Pius VI

1. A Jew who passes a night outside of the ghetto is condemned to death.

2. The "yellow sign" must also be carried also within the town-walls of the ghetto

3.The study of the Talmud is forbidden.

4.The sale is forbidden to the Christians of bread, meat and milk

5.It is forbidden to hold stores outside of the ghetto.

6.Relations with the Christian neighbors are forbidden.

Just to name a few. Besides that there were blood libels and pogroms. All because of a teaching that says the Jews have inherited curses forever and the church has all the blessings. A teaching that says Jews are no longer chosen and the apple of Gods eye but are guilty of Jesus Crucifixion. This is the legacy of Replacement Theology.

 

[GuessWho]

How are the Jews God's chosen people if they don't accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah?

It is basic Christianity! Whoever becomes Christian and accept Jesus Christ can take part of the New Covenant made with the Church who is the New and Real Israel.

Jews are not God's chosen people! They crucified Jesus Christ, they reject Him, they don't care about Jesus Christ at all. These people are just religious people. That's what they are. Whoever accepts Jesus Christ as the Messiah is part of God's Israel, of God's chosen people.

Don't believe for one second that you will intimidate me and my strong beliefs that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and that His Church is His true Israel, His chosen people. You want to call me an antisemitic? So, call me one! Saint Stephen also was one when he was angry at the Jews for their blindness and obstinate rejection of Jesus Christ. The Eastern Orthodox Church, too, scolds the Jews (in the expression of faith) for their stubbornness, for their hearts of stones, for rejecting Jesus Christ. They never put the Jews in Concentration Camps, never killed Jews, never preached killing of the Jews and. If you can't see the difference between scolding someone and killing someone than you have some problems! Also, the Churches who consider themselves the New Israel are the only ones that are truly aware of their Jewish roots. The Churches who fail to see the organic relation that exists between the Old Testament and Covenant and the New Testament and Covenant are blind people who don't even understand what they believe in, why they believe what they believe and so on.

If you want to say that God didn't fulfill His promises towards the Jews, very well! But don't call yourself a christian when you choose to say so! Have some decency, you and people like you!

Here's a video that shows how Israelis see Jesus Christ:

[video=youtube;UCUxTFt8pB0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCUxTFt8pB0[/video]

 

[valiant]

No Im standing on what the Bible says. Israel is the apple of Gods eye.

physical Israel WERE the apple of God's eye. Jesus pointed out that that had changed for those who refused to believe.

To bless them is to be blessed and to curse them is to be cursed.

Scripture?

Read history if you dont believe that to be true.

Proof? LOL

The Bible commands us to pray for the peace of Israel.

Actually it says pray for the peace of Jerusalem. But that was before God rejected earthly Jerusalem and replace it by heavenly Jerusalem, the mother of us all (Gal 4.20ff Heb 12.20-22).

So thats right out of the Bible.If you find that dangerous then you take it up with someone higher up then me.

I have

Replacement Theology has been the means for persecution of the Jews down through history.

That is simply untrue. Show me PROOF.

Thats a fact.If you know history you know this to be true.

well I know history especially church history, and it simply is not true.

Denying it is what is stupidity.

It is up to you to prove it

There are numerous verses on Jews being Gods chosen,on God gathering the Jews back to their homeland,on Gods unfailing promises to the Jews. If you choose to ignore half of Scripture thats up to you.

Israel was God's chosen, And guess who the chosen race are? The church, the true Israel (1 Peter 2.9).

The Jews WERE gathered to their homeland in accordance with God's promises after the Exile. But it is significant that there is no thought of that in the New Testament. No future gathering is promised.

Hitler aligned himself with the church,not the other way round

Not with the true church.

.Many of the Catholic/Protestant churches had already persecuted the Jews.

It was a violent age.

Here are some examples from Pope Pius VI

1. A Jew who passes a night outside of the ghetto is condemned to death.

2. The "yellow sign" must also be carried also within the town-walls of the ghetto

3.The study of the Talmud is forbidden.

4.The sale is forbidden to the Christians of bread, meat and milk

5.It is forbidden to hold stores outside of the ghetto.

6.Relations with the Christian neighbors are forbidden.

Have you read what he did to non-RC Christians? He was a monster.

Just to name a few. Besides that there were blood libels and pogroms. All because of a teaching that says the Jews have inherited curses forever and the church has all the blessings. A teaching that says Jews are no longer chosen and the apple of Gods eye but are guilty of Jesus Crucifixion. This is the legacy of Replacement Theology.

Nonsense

 

[valiant]

They will! God never broke His unconditional promise to Abraham. There is a remnant who will believe.

There is a remnant who HAVE believed. They are called the church

 

[valiant]

Jews as a whole are not culpable for Christs death. The Pharisees and elders sought to kill him,religious leaders.Why did they come after Jesus in dark of night? Why did they say they couldnt seize him for fear of starting a riot? Why was Judas paid 30 pieces of silver? Our sins make us all culpable for Christs death. Jew and Gentile.

But the Jews of Jerusalem as a whole murdered James the Just. And they sought to murder Paul

 

[GuessWho]

But the Jews of Jerusalem as a whole murdered James the Just. And they sought to murder Paul

And as they did with Saint Stephen who accused them of killing the Messiah:

51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52 Was there ever a prophet your ancestors did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him— 53 you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it.”

When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him,58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him.

 

[GuessWho]

Replacement Theology has been the means for persecution of the Jews down through history.Thats a fact.If you know history you know this to be true.Denying it is what is stupidity.

You still haven't answered the question I asked you on the thread "Israel":

On what basis can we, Christians, claim the Old Testament to be our book?

 

[GuessWho]

They will! God never broke His unconditional promise to Abraham. There is a remnant who will believe.

Of course God never broke His unconditional promise to Abraham! He gave us His only begotten Son! Do you understand why you are a christian?

The Jews in the video I post don't look like they will accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah. That's why they're Jews, to begin with. Because they don't believe in Jesus Christ.

How dare you to put the repentance of the Jews on God's charge! As if the repentance of the Jews depends on God's faithfulness and not on their freedom to chose Him! God has been faithful towards them! He sent His Son which they rejected, betrayed and killed!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what part? that Christians are encouraging Jews to move back to their homeland? Or that Jews will be involved with another battle where 1/3 will be killed and 1/3 will be scattered? Or that Jesus is their King now?

the second. when will 1/3 of jews be killed and scattered?

Jesus offered to be their king when they were formed. They chose saul,, so it is nothing new for them to reject Jesus as their lord. They did not receive him in the oT before he came to earth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To say that the Jews killed Jesus Christ is not antisemitism! It is in the Bible. To persecute and kill the Jews: that is antisemitism. Let's not confuse the two!

Every man woman and child who ever lived Killed jesus, Not just Jews.

I Killed jesus (he allowed hmself to die for me)

To say Jews killed jesus is antisemetism. and blameshifting, That dangerous. It refuses to take credit for ones own guilt and shame.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I teach that God does keep His promises, I can't help it if you don't understand them and who they apply to. I also teach that if God makes a contract or covenant with people, He'll keep it, unless the other party defaults on it. God is not obligated to keep a land promise to Israel when they defaulted on the contract. God told them over and over, if they were unfaithful to Him and went after other gods, that He'd kick them out. We've been down this road before to no avail. The only un conditional promise was to Abraham and His seed which is Christ.

Ephesians 2
Brought Near by His Blood

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But nowin Christ Jesusyou who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

If you taught that, You would teach that if the nation of Isreal repented, as required in Lev 26. That God would remember his eternal promise. his covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, He would remember the land. And he would restore them to what is rightly there's.

And we would not be having this discussion.
Eph has NOTHING to do with Gods promise to a nation concerning the land of canaan.

It has everything to do with gentiles coming into the promise (in you shall ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD BE BLESSED)

As I said, it was prophesied before. even promised to Abraham. so no one should be surprised (even Isreal)

 

[GuessWho]

To say Jews killed jesus is antisemetism. and blameshifting, That dangerous. It refuses to take credit for ones own guilt and shame.

Then the New Testament is antisemitic too, because it says the same thing.

I like how people accuse us of "allegorizing" the New Testament but when it comes to a simple, concrete and historic fact that Jews betrayed Jesus Christ and asked for His crucifixion they like to say "no, it wasn't the Jews, it was us".

For you, Jesus Christ did not exist in history? For you Jesus Christ is a religious figure of Christianity or God incarnated in man?

 

[GuessWho]

If you taught that, You would teach that if the nation of Isreal repented, as required in Lev 26. That God would remember his eternal promise. his covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, He would remember the land. And he would restore them to what is rightly there's.

Who is unfaithful? God or the Jews? Didn't God kept His promises to the Jews by sending them the promised Messiah?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then the New Testament is antisemitic too, because it says the same thing.

No, the bible says we all killed jesus (actually rome did, The jews could not kill him, they had no power to do capitol punishment) and even if they did, WE ALL DID.

So your going to deny you had a part in Jesus death?

I like how people accuse us of "allegorizing" the New Testament but when it comes to a simple, concrete and historic fact that Jews betrayed Jesus Christ and asked for His crucifixion they like to say "no, it wasn't the Jews, it was us".

You said they killed him, Not they asked him, HUGE difference.

For you, Jesus Christ did not exist in history? For you Jesus Christ is a religious figure of Christianity or God incarnated in man?

WHAT?

where did this come from

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Who is unfaithful? God or the Jews? Didn't God kept His promises to the Jews by sending them the promised Messiah?

What does that have to do with God promising then a plot of land forever?

You seem to be getting the salvation aspect of Gods promise to the world. with the physical promise to a nation of people mixed up.