LORDSHIP SALVATION

[crossnote]

The Philippian jailer never got the LS memo...

Acts 16:30-31 KJVS
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? [31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

[Gr8grace]

Here are nine teachings that set lordship salvation apart from easy-believism:

1) Repentance is not a simple synonym for faith. Scripture teaches that sinners must exercise faith in conjunction with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Peter 3:9). Repentance is a turning from sin (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47), and even this is a gift of God (2 Timothy 2:25). Genuine repentance, which comes when a person submits to the lordship of Christ, cannot help but result in a change of behavior (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18–20).

2) A Christian is a new creation and cannot just “stop believing” and lose salvation. Faith itself is a gift of God (Ephesians 2:1–5, 8), and real faith endures forever (Philippians 1:6). Salvation is all God’s work, not man’s. Those who believe in Christ as Lord are saved apart from any effort of their own (Titus 3:5).

3) The object of faith is Christ Himself, not a promise, a prayer, or a creed (John 3:16). Faith must involve a personal commitment to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:15). It is more than being convinced of the truth of the gospel; it is a forsaking of this world and a following of the Master. The Lord Jesus said, “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:27).

4) True faith always produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17). The inner person is transformed by the Holy Spirit (Galatians 2:20), and the Christian has new nature (Romans 6:6). Those with genuine faith—those who are submitted to the lordship of Christ—follow Jesus (John 10:27), love their brothers (1 John 3:14), obey God’s commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14), do the will of God (Matthew 12:50), abide in God’s Word (John 8:31), keep God’s Word (John 17:6), do good works (Ephesians 2:10), and continue in the faith (Colossians 1:21–23; Hebrews 3:14). Salvation is not adding Jesus to the pantheon of one’s idols; it is a wholesale destruction of the idols with Jesus reigning supreme.

5) God’s “divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life” (2 Peter 1:3; cf. Romans 8:32). Salvation, then, is not just a ticket to heaven. It is the means by which we are sanctified (practically) in this life and by which we grow in grace.

6) Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all. Christ demands unconditional surrender to His will (Romans 6:17–18; 10:9–10). Those who live in rebellion to God’s will do not have eternal life, for “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble” (James 4:6).

7) Those who truly believe in Christ will love Him (1 Peter 1:8–9; Romans 8:28–30; 1 Corinthians 16:22). And those we love we long to please (John 14:15, 23).

8) Scripture teaches that behavior is an important test of faith. Obedience is evidence that one’s faith is genuine (1 John 2:3). If a person remains unwilling to obey Christ, he provides evidence that his “faith” is in name only (1 John 2:4). A person may claim Jesus as Savior and pretend to obey for a while, but, if there is no heart change, his true nature will eventually manifest itself. This was the case for Judas Iscariot.

9) Genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith (1 Corinthians 1:8). This was the case for Simon Peter. A “believer” who completely turns away from the Lord plainly shows that he was never born again to begin with (1 John 2:19).

A person who has been delivered from sin by faith in Christ should not desire to remain in a life of sin (Romans 6:2). Of course, spiritual growth can occur quickly or slowly, depending on the person and his circumstances. And the changes may not be evident to everyone at first. Ultimately, God knows who are His sheep, and He will mature each of us according to His perfect time table.

Is it possible to be a Christian and live in lifelong carnality, enjoying the pleasures of sin, and never seeking to glorify the Lord who bought him? Can a sinner spurn the lordship of Christ yet lay claim to Him as Savior? Can someone pray a “sinner’s prayer” and go about his life as if nothing had happened and still call himself a “Christian”? Lordship salvation says “no.” Let us not give unrepentant sinners false hope; rather, let us declare the whole counsel of God: “You must be born again” (John 3:7).


(Lordship Salvation site.)


Kefa

Makes me want to puke. One little switch, on a major false doctrine................................"let us not give UNBELIEVERS a false hope.

And any person who has not placed their full trust in Christ alone for their salvation, is an unbeliever. Anyone who has believed Christ+_______________ and has never believed in Christ alone is an unbeliever.

I repented of my sins and for that reason Christ saved me............unbeliever.

I asked Jesus into my heart and he saved me............unbeliever.

I am trying to make Jesus Christ Lord.................unbeliever.

I walked an isle with tears.................unbeliever.


I said the sinners prayer............unbeliever.

I feel godly sorrow and asked Jesus to forgive my sins............unbeliever.


I recognize that I am a sinner, and I trust that Jesus Christ ALONE paid for all my sins and he died on the Cross and rose again for me...............believer and saved.

 

[Kefa54]

Forgive me but I am not sure what you are getting at.

Makes me want to puke. One little switch, on a major false doctrine................................"let us not give UNBELIEVERS a false hope.

And any person who has not placed their full trust in Christ alone for their salvation, is an unbeliever. Anyone who has believed Christ+_______________ and has never believed in Christ alone is an unbeliever.

I repented of my sins and for that reason Christ saved me............unbeliever.

I asked Jesus into my heart and he saved me............unbeliever.

I am trying to make Jesus Christ Lord.................unbeliever.

I walked an isle with tears.................unbeliever.


I said the sinners prayer............unbeliever.

I feel godly sorrow and asked Jesus to forgive my sins............unbeliever.


I recognize that I am a sinner, and I trust that Jesus Christ ALONE paid for all my sins and he died on the Cross and rose again for me...............believer and saved.

 

[Kefa54]

To me, Lord just means you accept him as Lord and focus on him. Then you will grow in him.


Kefa

The danger of it is that it could leave one forever wondering about their state of salvation due to the fact they'll be wondering if they 'made Him' Lord enough.

 

[Kefa54]

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Basically Gods will is that we accept him and rest in him. We will grow from there, in his strength, and wisdom, through the Holy Spirit..

I have never taught a new believer that he is doomed. I just tell them to keep your focus on Jesus and you will grow.

Kefa

 

[dcontroversal]

Lord....remember me when you come into your kingdom.......worked for the thief on the cross....

 

[Kefa54]

Lord....remember me when you come into your kingdom.......worked for the thief on the cross....

It should be remembered that at the time of Jesus’ crucifixion, two thieves were crucified beside Him (Luke 23:33–43), and both began their time on the cross by mocking and blaspheming Him, as did many of the spectators. One of the thieves responded in faith to the message of salvation and was taken to paradise. He is the one usually referred to as the thief on the cross, while the other man did not respond in faith and is now suffering from a deadly and eternal mistake.

One believed and one didn't.

(Case for Christ)

We are saved by Grace through faith. Ephesians 2:8

Kefa

 

[Kefa54]

As Jesus was hanging on the cross, paying our penalty for sin, He made a promise to a dying, repentant thief. By the grace of God and the power of Christ, that promise was kept. The thief’s sins were washed away, and his death that day was his entrance to paradise.

( Jesus: The Greatest Life of All by Charles Swindoll )

Kefa

Lord....remember me when you come into your kingdom.......worked for the thief on the cross....

 

[Angela53510]

Here you go...

An Introduction to Lordship Salvation

So, MacArthur is saying if you don't have fruits/works in your life, you basically are not saved?

I see this two ways.

1. Repentance is emphasized, which is a change of direction, including walking up the narrow way, towards Jesus. I have heard too many evangelical messages that miss this important part of the gospel. And known of too many people who prayed a "sinner's" prayer and never walked with Jesus the rest of their lives. So from this perspective, this might be an antidote to easy believism, as the article says.

OR

2. Too much is placed on what the believer does, as opposed to what the Holy Spirit does in the life of the believer - changing them and transforming them. I know I was a wretched sinner, before I was saved. There truly was nothing I could have done to come before Christ and be worthy of his sacrifice on Calvary. And I did not have the strength to follow Christ on my own. When I made Jesus Saviour, he made himself Lord of my life. Nothing in me did that!


What is interesting, is that church I talked about in my previous post, was that the pastor loudly proclaimed that we did need to make Christ the Lord of our lives. Which makes me wonder if this doctrine has changed and morphed a bit more into something else?

This really does sound like another grace vs works issue. Can we work at being saved, and being obedient, or does Lordship come totally from God? I guess it depends upon whether God is totally sovereign, or just a little bit in control? Leaving the rest of the control to us?

I don't serve a God like that. I serve the holy God who controls the entire universe, and that includes me!

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

lordship salvation is basically legalistic calvinism...

lordship salvation teachers manage to mesh their legalism with their calvinism by pointing out that you can recognize salvation by the fruit it produces...so the problem is not so much in the doctrine but in the emphasis...

at its purest level lordship salvation can lead to christians never being assured of their election because they are never sure that they have done enough good works to evidence salvation...but in practice it generally leads to total self righteousness as they tend to set an arbitrary standard for what constitutes 'enough' good works to evidence salvation...which always seems to have them including themselves among the 'elect' and excluding anyone less 'righteous' than them...

 

[mailmandan]

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Basically Gods will is that we accept him and rest in him. We will grow from there, in his strength, and wisdom, through the Holy Spirit..

I have never taught a new believer that he is doomed. I just tell them to keep your focus on Jesus and you will grow.

Kefa

Amen! John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

[crossnote]

So, MacArthur is saying if you don't have fruits/works in your life, you basically are not saved?

I see this two ways.

1. Repentance is emphasized, which is a change of direction, including walking up the narrow way, towards Jesus. I have heard too many evangelical messages that miss this important part of the gospel. And known of too many people who prayed a "sinner's" prayer and never walked with Jesus the rest of their lives. So from this perspective, this might be an antidote to easy believism, as the article says.

OR

2. Too much is placed on what the believer does, as opposed to what the Holy Spirit does in the life of the believer - changing them and transforming them. I know I was a wretched sinner, before I was saved. There truly was nothing I could have done to come before Christ and be worthy of his sacrifice on Calvary. And I did not have the strength to follow Christ on my own. When I made Jesus Saviour, he made himself Lord of my life. Nothing in me did that!


What is interesting, is that church I talked about in my previous post, was that the pastor loudly proclaimed that we did need to make Christ the Lord of our lives. Which makes me wonder if this doctrine has changed and morphed a bit more into something else?

This really does sound like another grace vs works issue. Can we work at being saved, and being obedient, or does Lordship come totally from God? I guess it depends upon whether God is totally sovereign, or just a little bit in control? Leaving the rest of the control to us?

I don't serve a God like that. I serve the holy God who controls the entire universe, and that includes me!

I think his main emphasis was to counter the 'easy believism' which pretty much consisted of repeating a prayer but it sort of boomeranged into a full out worldwide church debate. The proverbial rider fell off the other side of the horse in the attempt to fix a problem.

 

[Stephen63]

Romans 10:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Hebrews 13:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

James 4:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1 Corinthians 9:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


Submission & subjection require something besides thinking about it.

 

[maxwel]

I think his main emphasis was to counter the 'easy believism' which pretty much consisted of repeating a prayer but it sort of boomeranged into a full out worldwide church debate. The proverbial rider fell off the other side of the horse in the attempt to fix a problem.

I think this is a good assessment.

This issue isn't really about doctrine, but rather about emphasis.

The solution is to maintain some kind of biblical balance.

 

[crossnote]

I think this is a good assessment.

This issue isn't really about doctrine, but rather about emphasis.

The solution is to maintain some kind of biblical balance.

I worked at a Christian house ministry for about 10 years and they so easily would have someone repeat the 'sinner's prayer' and then tell him/her that they are now one of God's Children...only to find out shortly afterwards the person was just gaming to get a place to stay.

 

[JGIG]

I heard someone say (probably on CC because that's where I've heard all of these ism's and such) that for most Christians, Jesus is their Saviour and not their Lord..kinda confuses me.

Right, because if He isn't Lord, He cannot be a Savior . . . as if WE make Him Lord . He is what He is (I am that I am, Before Abraham was, I am). We receive Him as He is. More amazing, He receives us as we are!

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

. . .

I know a few people who have lived their lives like this, they like the morality but have never understood the walk. At the funeral of one man, I told his brother that he definately held no faith or belief, and to a large degree despised christianity though they liked some of the people. He gave me an odd look, because in his heart he hoped God would look kindly on his brother, even though he also knew what I was saying was true.

How compassionate of you.

It is not for us to determine (say in our heart), not to mention say out loud to dead people's relatives who WE THINK is saved or not saved, but to share the Gospel:

5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says:

“Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim:

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. (from Rom. 10)​

Only God knows the heart, and what takes place in relation to Him in one's final moments. You owe that man's brother an apology.

-JGIG

 

[PeterJens]

How compassionate of you.

I have a problem, because I know this sounds very harsh. It just so happened this particular individual shared with me his liking of Himmler who was the architect of the nazi death camps. Now of all the crimes of the 20th century this ranks among the worst. After this conversation, I did not want to say another word to them.

Now I loved them as I would love anyone, but this is just so evil, so insane and twisted. One particular person at that funeral also held similar political views.

Unfortunately on this issue I am not going to be nice or super-sensitive. So many "christians" think it is about whether people are saved or not saved. What I was talking about is being real about where someone was in their life, and not faking something that they themselves would never hold to.

What would you say to Himmlers widow at his funeral?

Evil does exist and people fall into hell every day. Too often the culture wants a fairy land ending where there is none.

I have been with people who were dying of cancer, and whatever their outlook on life, they appeared to have zero interest in Jesus, or even talking about life issues. It is often a comfort to grieving relatives to hold on to the idea, they might have had a death bed realisation and conversion. Ofcourse for some this might be true, but I doubt very many.

An apology to his brother? For what? Speaking the truth. His brother has now died, and was a regular church attender and had a good heart. I do not think he ever knew his brother to this degree, but we never talked about it. He certainly did not take what I said badly, it might of been a reminder of what he already knew and had experienced over the years.

What it does remind me of, is I never managed to connect properly to this individual, but I doubt that would ever be possible, simply because of the number of shut doors they put up in their life. It would be fantastic to learn that they did reach out to Jesus, but I have no reason to believe anything like this happened.

I am being honest here, and that is all I can be.

To give you another insight, my wife spent 2 years working on an exhibition about the death camps, so I know intimately how evil and barbaric this world was, which made the emotional impact of such words doubly difficult.

 

[PeterJens]

I have heard people say...If a person does so and so I would question their salvation.

My heart breaks at such words. I have met some very confused and lost people, who struggle everyday just to do the basics.

If anyone has just a glimpse of the Lord and reaches out, He is there.

The people who make me question their salvation are the loudest, pompous, high and mighty, who claim a curse on those who oppose them. It is they who I wonder which God they follow, money or Jesus.

 

[Kefa54]

It's a shame but this happens in homeless shelters allot. Say the prayer to get a meal and a warm bed for the night..

Kefa

I worked at a Christian house ministry for about 10 years and they so easily would have someone repeat the 'sinner's prayer' and then tell him/her that they are now one of God's Children...only to find out shortly afterwards the person was just gaming to get a place to stay.