The sabbath cults - making an idol of the sabbath.

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"tell that church to lay aside money on the first day of the week"


he told them to store up food at there homes for him to pick up

if anyone had meat to give , they needed help carring it.

sounds like it was work on sunday.

another verse somewhere they took fruit to the same hungry people

was not a colection of money, churches have become rich with that verse


peace and love to all




other verse was, sabbath worship went late, then comotion upstares.
sunday come light he walked 10 miles , and his ship companions where rowing around the point 50 miles
 
prove-all said:
was not a colection of money, churches have become rich with that verse
Click to expand...

Yes, it has been abused. But just because someone abuses the word of God, doesn't mean that it was not a good world from God. And the money that Paul mentions here did not stay at that church. It was sent to Jerusalem. And no, I do not believe that it was the way that we see in the Catholic Church. Money is not the root of evil, but the love of it is.
 
The light has been directed at collecting money for the church, and how it has been abused. If one were to be a stickler about Paul's writing, then we should all hold everything we have in common with no one person lacking. Yikes! Pinko communism! I do not expect people to do this today, for there is no one denomination dominating the world, nor will there ever be at this point. Give when asked, and do not ask who or why. Yahweh, God, bless all in Yeshua, amen.
 
JaumeJ said:
The light has been directed at collecting money for the church, and how it has been abused. If one were to be a stickler about Paul's writing, then we should all hold everything we have in common with no one person lacking. Yikes! Pinko communism! I do not expect people to do this today, for there is no one denomination dominating the world, nor will there ever be at this point. Give when asked, and do not ask who or why. Yahweh, God, bless all in Yeshua, amen.
Click to expand...

I do understand what you mean. But, this was not an earthly government. This was God's family. And they saw it that way. In the first century church there was a huge amount of love for one another and for God. It was never about the money. Well, I can't say that - Peter spoke and a man and his wife died because he lied about his giving. And I want to clarify. I don't think he died because he kept back some of the money, but probably because he was greedy or lacked faith. This is actually a story that I have a hard time with because it doesn't seem very Christ-like. But the Holy Spirit gave the power for this miracle. Sorry, tangent. When loving, godly men get money, a lot of good can be accomplished in the name of God.
 
I think that the spiritual is the focus (as it always is). Physical things are used in gaining the spiritual. When I say this, I mean that the soul of a person is attached to the physical body. If you want to get to their soul it is usually through the flesh (If not always - I would say always). Many times we can be fake. This fakeness doesn't go unnoticed, at least not forever. At some point, the other person realized that you don't really care (I mean really care). Sure, we don't want them to go to hell, but sometimes we want to run to the store, get the kids fed and in bed before 9:00pm, or have a show we're missing, or whatever.

Sorry, I am preaching, hopefully I came across understandable.

Physical things are used in gaining the spiritual.
Adam/Eve ate fruit = Spiritual Death
Jesus gave up everything and took on our sins = Spiritual Life

Yes, these are the extremes. But they are highlighted examples of this connection. If we want to convert people we need to get to know them and really care about them. Yes, there are examples, like Philip and the Eunuch, and they can happen. But, the Eunuch wanted to know and I must say was zealous compared to most people we see today.
 
prove-all said:
"tell that church to lay aside money on the first day of the week"


he told them to store up food at there homes for him to pick up

if anyone had meat to give , they needed help carring it.

sounds like it was work on sunday.

another verse somewhere they took fruit to the same hungry people

was not a colection of money, churches have become rich with that verse


peace and love to all




other verse was, sabbath worship went late, then comotion upstares.
sunday come light he walked 10 miles , and his ship companions where rowing around the point 50 miles
Click to expand...

Just to add to the above on I Cor 16, here is why they were to lay up in store...

Act 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
Act 11:29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
Act 11:30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.

1Co 16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
1Co 16:4 And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.
1Co 16:5 Now I will come unto you, when I shall pass through Macedonia: for I do pass through Macedonia.

Notice about Macedonia...

2Co 9:1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
2Co 9:2 For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many.
2Co 9:3 Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready:
2Co 9:4 Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting.
2Co 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

Paul continues in this letter to the Corinthians.

Just an interesting side note, this is apparently the third epistle to the Corinthians...

1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

Paul refers to an epistle he wrote prior to what we call first Corinthians. It was not canonized but in actuality, what we really have are II Cor and III Cor. We do not have I Cor. - Just an interesting fact here.
 
The Ten Commandments are a summary of the Old Covenant
Exodus 34:28 “So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the word of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Exodus 31:18 “And he gave to Moses when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Deut 4:13 “And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments, and he wrote them on two tablets of stone”.
Deut 9:9 “When I went up the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant that the Lord made with you.”
Deut 9:11 “And at the end of forty days and forty nights the Lord gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant.”
The Old Covenant was an agreement between God and Israel, not God and Christians
Ex 31:12-17 And the Lord said to Moses, “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you. You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death. Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever. It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.”
The Old Covenant is no longer in effect for ANYONE
Heb 8:13-9:4 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness. For a tent was prepared, the first section, in which were the lampstand and the table, and the bread of the Presence. It is called the Holy Place. Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place, having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant.
Gal 3:17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterwards, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.
Gal 3:24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith
Gal 3:25 But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a guardian
2 Cor 3:4-18 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even much more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory. Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
The Sabbath, as part of the Old Covenant, is not in affect for ANYONE
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years! I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
Rom 14:5-6 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Col 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ
Jesus is our Sabbath or spiritual rest, and we enter into that spiritual rest by placing our faith in Him
Matt 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and lean from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Heb 4:1-8 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter my rest. “ although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” And again in this passage he said, “They shall not enter my rest.”. Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, “Today”, saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted. “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.” For if Joshua had not given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. So then there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from is works as God did from his. Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Christians are under the New Covenant, which has much higher demands and different commandments
Luke 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.”
Heb 9:15 Therefore, he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Jn 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Jn 15:12 This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Jn 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
I am a former Sabbathkeeper due to my association as a new believer with Worldwide Church of God (now called Grace Communion International). Worldwide Church of God came to realize in 1995 that Christians are under the New Covenant, and not the Old Covenant, and the Sabbath does not apply to Christians under the New Covenant. It was a sign of the Old Covenant (like baptism and the Lord’s Supper are signs of the New Covenant), and is not a moral absolute like Sabbathkeepers claim. Sabbathkeeping doctrine invariably takes the focus off the true gospel, which is about Jesus Christ and salvation by grace through faith in Him (Eph 2:8-9). As a Sabbathkeeper, I rarely heard messages about God’s grace and love; the message of such organizations invariably focuses on the Sabbath. Jesus Christ was also placed on the backburner and was not the focus of their teaching. If you would like good sources of information in regards to the Sabbath check out Grace Communion International’s website at https://www.gci.org/law I now attend an Evangelical Free church that focuses on Jesus Christ and salvation through Him, which is the true gospel.
 
You are spamming the forum. Try interactingin person with others like the rest of us do?

sparkman said:
The Ten Commandments are a summary of the Old Covenant
Exodus 34:28 “So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights.He neither ate bread nor drank water.And he wrote on the tablets the word of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Exodus 31:18 “And he gave to Moses when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Deut 4:13 “And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments, and he wrote them on two tablets of stone”.
Deut 9:9 “When I went up the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant that the Lord made with you.”
Deut 9:11 “And at the end of forty days and forty nights the Lord gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant.”
The Old Covenant was an agreement between God and Israel, not God and Christians
Ex 31:12-17 And the Lord said to Moses, “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you.You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy to you.Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death.Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.”
The Old Covenant is no longer in effect for ANYONE
Heb 8:13-9:4 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness.For a tent was prepared, the first section, in which were the lampstand and the table, and the bread of the Presence.It is called the Holy Place.Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place, having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant.
Gal 3:17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterwards, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.
Gal 3:24So the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith
Gal 3:25 But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a guardian
2 Cor 3:4-18 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God.Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit.For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even much more glory?For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory.Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it.For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end.But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another.For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
The Sabbath, as part of the Old Covenant, is not in affect for ANYONE
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years!I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
Rom 14:5-6 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Col 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ
Jesus is our Sabbath or spiritual rest, and we enter into that spiritual rest by placing our faith in Him
Matt 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.Take my yoke upon you, and lean from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Heb 4:1-8Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter my rest. “ although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”And again in this passage he said, “They shall not enter my rest.”.Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, “Today”, saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted.“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”For if Joshua had not given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.So then there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from is works as God did from his.Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Christians are under the New Covenant, which has much higher demands and different commandments
Luke 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.”
Heb 9:15 Therefore, he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Jn 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Jn 15:12 This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Jn 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
I am a former Sabbathkeeper due to my association as a new believer with Worldwide Church of God (now called Grace Communion International).Worldwide Church of God came to realize in 1995 that Christians are under the New Covenant, and not the Old Covenant, and the Sabbath does not apply to Christians under the New Covenant.It was a sign of the Old Covenant (like baptism and the Lord’s Supper are signs of the New Covenant), and is not a moral absolute like Sabbathkeepers claim.Sabbathkeeping doctrine invariably takes the focus off the true gospel, which is about Jesus Christ and salvation by grace through faith in Him (Eph 2:8-9).As a Sabbathkeeper, I rarely heard messages about God’s grace and love; the message of such organizations invariably focuses on the Sabbath.Jesus Christ was also placed on the backburner and was not the focus of their teaching.If you would like good sources of information in regards to the Sabbath check out Grace Communion International’s website at https://www.gci.org/lawI now attend an Evangelical Free church that focuses on Jesus Christ and salvation through Him, which is the true gospel.
Click to expand...
 
sparkman said:
The Ten Commandments are a summary of the Old Covenant
Exodus 34:28 “So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights.He neither ate bread nor drank water.And he wrote on the tablets the word of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Exodus 31:18 “And he gave to Moses when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Deut 4:13 “And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments, and he wrote them on two tablets of stone”.
Deut 9:9 “When I went up the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant that the Lord made with you.”
Deut 9:11 “And at the end of forty days and forty nights the Lord gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant.”
The Old Covenant was an agreement between God and Israel, not God and Christians
Ex 31:12-17 And the Lord said to Moses, “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you.You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy to you.Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death.Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.”
The Old Covenant is no longer in effect for ANYONE
Heb 8:13-9:4 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness.For a tent was prepared, the first section, in which were the lampstand and the table, and the bread of the Presence.It is called the Holy Place.Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place, having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant.
Gal 3:17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterwards, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary.
Gal 3:24So the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith
Gal 3:25 But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a guardian
2 Cor 3:4-18 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God.Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit.For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even much more glory?For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory.Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it.For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end.But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another.For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
The Sabbath, as part of the Old Covenant, is not in affect for ANYONE
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years!I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.
Rom 14:5-6 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Col 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ
Jesus is our Sabbath or spiritual rest, and we enter into that spiritual rest by placing our faith in Him
Matt 11:28-30 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.Take my yoke upon you, and lean from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Heb 4:1-8Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter my rest. “ although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”And again in this passage he said, “They shall not enter my rest.”.Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, “Today”, saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted.“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”For if Joshua had not given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.So then there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from is works as God did from his.Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Christians are under the New Covenant, which has much higher demands and different commandments
Luke 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.”
Heb 9:15 Therefore, he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Jn 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Jn 15:12 This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Jn 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
I am a former Sabbathkeeper due to my association as a new believer with Worldwide Church of God (now called Grace Communion International).Worldwide Church of God came to realize in 1995 that Christians are under the New Covenant, and not the Old Covenant, and the Sabbath does not apply to Christians under the New Covenant.It was a sign of the Old Covenant (like baptism and the Lord’s Supper are signs of the New Covenant), and is not a moral absolute like Sabbathkeepers claim.Sabbathkeeping doctrine invariably takes the focus off the true gospel, which is about Jesus Christ and salvation by grace through faith in Him (Eph 2:8-9).As a Sabbathkeeper, I rarely heard messages about God’s grace and love; the message of such organizations invariably focuses on the Sabbath.Jesus Christ was also placed on the backburner and was not the focus of their teaching.If you would like good sources of information in regards to the Sabbath check out Grace Communion International’s website at https://www.gci.org/lawI now attend an Evangelical Free church that focuses on Jesus Christ and salvation through Him, which is the true gospel.
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The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant, its basis. . .
 
Genesis 2:3, And God blessed the the seventh day,and sanctified it, because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. This is way b4 the commandments were written.
The sabbath was mentioned 2x in the commandments, that's Gods way of empathizing it by reinforcing it.
The new testament Paul taught Jew and Greek on the sabbath, Acts 13: 42 - 45. not on Sun worship day
 
dondi147 said:
Genesis 2:3, And God blessed the the seventh day,and sanctified it, because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. This is way b4 the commandments were written.
The sabbath was mentioned 2x in the commandments, that's Gods way of empathizing it by reinforcing it.
The new testament Paul taught Jew and Greek on the sabbath, Acts 13: 42 - 45. not on Sun worship day
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Paul also said, Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day...

due to Jesus having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness.
 
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This is a great post.

Larry_Stotle said:
The sabbath was given to nation of Israel, the sabbath cults claim this was a creation ordinance which is highly debatable.

What is not debatable is the position of a Christian - dead the the Law:

(Gal 2:19 KJV) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


(Rom 7:4 KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

And just in case there is any confusion about which law a Christian is dead to Paul tells us exactly which Law he's speaking of:

(Rom 7:7 KJV)............for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So clearly the law of Moses is in view when Paul states we are dead to it.

The sabbath cults claim "you Christians keep nine but omit the fourth" - that may be so but keeping the "nine" in itself is also a denial that a Christian is DEAD to the law.

Not one of these sabbath cults can explain how a Christan can be dead to the law and alive to it at the same time by attempting to keep it.

Neither can they explain how they can be married to Christ and Moses at the same time - ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another. This is either bigamy or adultery - take your pick.

(1 Tim 1:7 KJV) Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

(1 Tim 1:8 KJV) But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

(1 Tim 1:9 KJV) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

The sabbath promoters are proclaiming themselves to be "lawless and disobedient".

The sabbath promoters are proclaiming that the "ministration of death" has now become the "ministration of life" in Christ.

(2 Cor 3:7 KJV) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

(2 Cor 3:8 KJV) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

(2 Cor 3:9 KJV) For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

(Gal 6:2 KJV) Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
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Roberth said:
You are just plain ignorant. I'm not going to waste my time.
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thankfully, Larry hasn't been active on the forum for the last 18 months or so.
so he very likely won't even notice that you wasted your time telling him that you think talking to him is a waste of time. how good when no one is offended!

:)
 
posthuman said:

thankfully, Larry hasn't been active on the forum for the last 18 months or so.
so he very likely won't even notice that you wasted your time telling him that you think talking to him is a waste of time. how good when no one is offended!

:)
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But somebody was... :(
 
Larry_Stotle said:
The sabbath was given to nation of Israel, the sabbath cults claim this was a creation ordinance which is highly debatable.

What is not debatable is the position of a Christian - dead the the Law:

(Gal 2:19 KJV) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


(Rom 7:4 KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

And just in case there is any confusion about which law a Christian is dead to Paul tells us exactly which Law he's speaking of:

(Rom 7:7 KJV)............for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So clearly the law of Moses is in view when Paul states we are dead to it.

The sabbath cults claim "you Christians keep nine but omit the fourth" - that may be so but keeping the "nine" in itself is also a denial that a Christian is DEAD to the law.

Not one of these sabbath cults can explain how a Christan can be dead to the law and alive to it at the same time by attempting to keep it.

Neither can they explain how they can be married to Christ and Moses at the same time - ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another. This is either bigamy or adultery - take your pick.

(1 Tim 1:7 KJV) Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

(1 Tim 1:8 KJV) But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

(1 Tim 1:9 KJV) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

The sabbath promoters are proclaiming themselves to be "lawless and disobedient".

The sabbath promoters are proclaiming that the "ministration of death" has now become the "ministration of life" in Christ.

(2 Cor 3:7 KJV) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

(2 Cor 3:8 KJV) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

(2 Cor 3:9 KJV) For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

(Gal 6:2 KJV) Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
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Once you get that you are arguing the Sabbath from an old covenant perspective you will see that what you said here does not effect those who keep it under the new covenant.

I tell you what though this bit makes you look like you did not think:

(1 Tim 1:9 KJV) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

And then to say this:

The sabbath promoters are proclaiming themselves to be "lawless and disobedient".

Well that is just silly.

You are going to sit there and say that those who keep the Sabbath are lawless and disobedient? This from one who disobeys the law.

You see the law on stone is not for us because we have the law on our hearts, its for you because you are lawless and disobedient.

I mean really is there no sense in this world that someone can come on here and say those who keep the law are lawless and obedient while arguing that one does not have to obey the law for themselves? And then people like it?

Sad state.
 
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
 
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