Hey James, can you explain the part I put in bold? What do you mean by that, fully? I am just thinking, even non-believers have a conscience and can know right from wrong. Their own conscience bears witness. Of course a person can have a seared conscience but that isn't applicable to all. I am just trying to understand what point you're trying to make. Can you explain it in depth, or at least clearly?
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P
What is rubbish is that you take my statement as a general statement. It was directed at a singular member and what it refers to, if you care to let your ego slip long enough to educate yourself as to what was being discussed...a statement he made.
And this has relevance to what I said...how?
Go back to sleep, lol.
You know, you, talking about discerning sin, well...that is humorous.
Which illustrates my point to James, it is quite clear Christians can sin without conscience, and just as MacArthur states, it is due to a lack of discernment.
You might want to read the discussion and find out what is actually being talked about, but, since you have imposed yourself into this in two ways, it gives me pause to consider that perhaps your conscience has been impacted by this thread, lol.
Well, I have pointed out your false witness, lol, discerning early on you had ulterior motive.
Again, you are free to point out any twisting and false allegations.
And your absence or presence means what exactly?
Amazing.
Show me where I am wrong.
Show me you have not publicly lied about John MacArthur.
Show me I am wrong in saying that believers can sin without conscience. This is because they are sincere in the errors they have embraced.
And that does not mean they are not saved...just confused.
Point out one false thing I have said.
You are not going to show the point your ego flared at, because it is not false:
Originally Posted by james57
No christian can sin without conscience. They cannot happily use grace as a licence to sin, for they have been born again of the spirit, the law has been placed on their heart.
Originally Posted by P1LGR1M
You are teaching a false doctrine by saying that believers never sin because they have the Law of God written on their heart.
You want to jump on that wagon?
You want to teach that "No Christian can sin without conscience because the Law their heart?"
If you do, then you teach the very thing you falsely accuse MacArthur of, which has been shown many times to be a lie and false witness.
You are hypocritical in your ranting.
No, you stopped posting because your conscience was pricked, most likely. You cannot show MacArthur teaching works-based salvation nor that he denies the Sovereignty of God in Salvation.
That is why you stopped posting, because all you have to offer are personal attacks. You cannot address the OP, and if you can't bad-mouth someone who has a long career of defending Sola Fide to your satisfaction, you slink off to another thread where you can feed your ego and satisfy your carnal desire to slander those who disagree with your beliefs.
So you say. I would just ask if that rage is supposed to be the fruit of the Spirit?
You should listen to your conscience, it is trying to speak to you.
God bless.
And this has relevance to what I said...how?
Go back to sleep, lol.
You know, you, talking about discerning sin, well...that is humorous.
Which illustrates my point to James, it is quite clear Christians can sin without conscience, and just as MacArthur states, it is due to a lack of discernment.
You might want to read the discussion and find out what is actually being talked about, but, since you have imposed yourself into this in two ways, it gives me pause to consider that perhaps your conscience has been impacted by this thread, lol.
Well, I have pointed out your false witness, lol, discerning early on you had ulterior motive.
Again, you are free to point out any twisting and false allegations.
And your absence or presence means what exactly?
Amazing.
Show me where I am wrong.
Show me you have not publicly lied about John MacArthur.
Show me I am wrong in saying that believers can sin without conscience. This is because they are sincere in the errors they have embraced.
And that does not mean they are not saved...just confused.
Point out one false thing I have said.
You are not going to show the point your ego flared at, because it is not false:
You are teaching a false doctrine by saying that believers never sin because they have the Law of God written on their heart.
You want to teach that "No Christian can sin without conscience because the Law their heart?"
If you do, then you teach the very thing you falsely accuse MacArthur of, which has been shown many times to be a lie and false witness.
You are hypocritical in your ranting.
No, you stopped posting because your conscience was pricked, most likely. You cannot show MacArthur teaching works-based salvation nor that he denies the Sovereignty of God in Salvation.
That is why you stopped posting, because all you have to offer are personal attacks. You cannot address the OP, and if you can't bad-mouth someone who has a long career of defending Sola Fide to your satisfaction, you slink off to another thread where you can feed your ego and satisfy your carnal desire to slander those who disagree with your beliefs.
So you say. I would just ask if that rage is supposed to be the fruit of the Spirit?
You should listen to your conscience, it is trying to speak to you.
God bless.
P
This is false doctrine that is not supported by Scripture.
I have not "preached righteous living" that does not also accommodate unredeemed flesh.
You, like your No-Lordship Movement fellows...have an unbalanced understanding of Scripture, and you are the reason why some will believe they have a license for sin, rather than the holy calling salvation in Christ truly is.
There is nothing false in this witness against, you, your very words convict you.
You negate the grace of God and His Sovereignty by teaching a watered down gospel which clearly you have created in just the last few days.
The obvious answer is...you.
This shows that you have no qualms in making assumptions or debating something you are ignorant of. You, like several here, are trying to impose a reality to the nonsense you offer.
So tell me, do you always try to argue two positions at once?
God bless.
I have not "preached righteous living" that does not also accommodate unredeemed flesh.
You, like your No-Lordship Movement fellows...have an unbalanced understanding of Scripture, and you are the reason why some will believe they have a license for sin, rather than the holy calling salvation in Christ truly is.
There is nothing false in this witness against, you, your very words convict you.
You negate the grace of God and His Sovereignty by teaching a watered down gospel which clearly you have created in just the last few days.
The obvious answer is...you.
This shows that you have no qualms in making assumptions or debating something you are ignorant of. You, like several here, are trying to impose a reality to the nonsense you offer.
So tell me, do you always try to argue two positions at once?
God bless.
That is all good and well, but consciousness of sin through the Law by no means gives us victory over sin. Right? If a congregation is in sin, how would you go about addressing it (like the Corinthians)? If I show someone by the Law that... stealing is wrong, does it somehow give them the ability to stop? No, they are only aware that it is now wrong. One might simply say, "Stop stealing" but along those same lines we might encourage others to "stop sinning." However, as you know, people are in the flesh and are by no means perfect.
I guess what I am getting at is, what is your solution to sinning? What gives you victory over sin in your life? What does the Word say about us in relation to sin? The first thing that comes to my mind is that we are dead to sin and alive unto God, said by the apostle Paul. We are new creations. We are to renew our minds. These truths accepted by us, seem to affect our walk, our victory over sin. To sum it up, I will give a verse.
Romans 6:14King James Version (KJV)
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
I guess what I am getting at is, what is your solution to sinning? What gives you victory over sin in your life? What does the Word say about us in relation to sin? The first thing that comes to my mind is that we are dead to sin and alive unto God, said by the apostle Paul. We are new creations. We are to renew our minds. These truths accepted by us, seem to affect our walk, our victory over sin. To sum it up, I will give a verse.
Romans 6:14King James Version (KJV)
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
P
What good would it do? If I do comment on something, I'm arrogant. If I don't, I'm ignorant. lol
I will leave you with a passage to consider, my implacable friend...
Matthew 11:16-17
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
Go and learn what that meaneth.
God bless.
I will leave you with a passage to consider, my implacable friend...
Matthew 11:16-17
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
Go and learn what that meaneth.
God bless.
B
True repentance can only take place when a person responds by faith and agrees with the light of God's conviction in their heart. This is how God turns us from ourselves and our sin unto Him and that is grace. To turn from what the old sin nature produces in our life through the flesh, it is going to take the cross (death) to do that and not some form of pseudo repentance or even obedience to the commandments. Many try to conform to what is right instead of being crucified in their experience that they might have life. Any form of repentance that does not include the cross, conviction of the Spirit and the grace of God is dead, just like the letter of the law. If any man wants Jesus to be the Lord of their life they must go to the cross and allow the death of the cross to be worked in so that the life of Christ can be made manifested in their mortal bodies. Before we can experience resurrection life their must be first a confrontation with death concerning all the desires, appetites and lusts of the flesh.
What good would it do? If I do comment on something, I'm arrogant. If I don't, I'm ignorant. lol
I will leave you with a passage to consider, my implacable friend...
Matthew 11:16-17
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
Go and learn what that meaneth.
God bless.
I will leave you with a passage to consider, my implacable friend...
Matthew 11:16-17
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
Go and learn what that meaneth.
God bless.
P
And I consistently teach that salvation is a response to the efforts of Sovereign God, specifically in His ministry of Conviction as the Comforter.
Sorry, but I have to disagree with that. Christ died once to save us, and the life He has saved us to live is not a matter of revisiting the Cross, but a matter of progression that combines the ministry He performs in our lives, which is conforming us to His image, and the means by which He does that which is similar to His ministry of Salvation...by teaching us.
We do not simply look into the Word and intellectually arrange data to bring a result of understanding which we can them implement in our lives. Rather, just as we were dependent in God revealing divine truth to us in our natural state, even so we are dependent of that in our salvation.
And God reveals truth, I believe, according to the diligence of the student. Some groups speak about being "zapped" with supernatural knowledge, when for many of us...there's quite a bit of homework we have to do.
Paul would not have said "study to show thyself approved unto God" if study were not something for the believer. Diligence in Doctrine was not for Timothy or leadership only.
And God is a great Teacher, presenting the information to the believer according to his ability. We don't give Algebra exams to first graders, and neither does God give strong meat to those incapable of digesting it.
Paul rebukes the Corinthians because their practice evidenced a character that apparently he felt should not be the case. He had to treat them as babes.
So will you acknowledge there is a true repentance in the lives of believers?
As far as obedience to the commandments, we have to look at which commandments are in view, and the motive for keeping them.
I think we could conclude that the commandments we are under are far more complex than those which men under Law were under. That Age could be compared to "youth" in the TimeLine of Redemptive History, whereas this Age represents at least the "young man" analogy John speaks about.
Well maybe you could explain to me how my being "crucified" contributes to the Sovereign Work of God in Salvation.
We do not obtain Eternal Life through any contribution we make. Christ died alone on the Cross...no man contributes to Atonement, and no man contributes to Reconciliation.
I do not see any crucifixion of a believer as relevant other than the image of our being dead with Christ. But we have to remember that Christ died alone.
So what repentance do you speak of? Before salvation? During the process of salvation whereby the Holy Spirit brings repentance through enlightening the natural mind to the reality of sin and it's consequences? After salvation where the continuing ministry of the Comforter leads us into all truth, still bringing conviction of sin>
It's a broad subject. I would agree for the most part, because I do not see genuine repentance as something that takes place apart from the revelation of God in regards to sin.
Not sure I could agree with "working the Cross in" so that one can receive life. That is the central focus of eternal life...the Cross.
Christ died that we might have life.
And while the Cross remains a central focus in our understanding, that doesn't mean we do not also recognize the Resurrection, as well as the life which He now lives in us, which is not just about the Cross, but about our interaction in a fallen world.
Not sure I can agree with this either: "resurrection life" is the very thing we receive when we are born again. Christ did not bestow that Life prior to the Cross, and bestows that Life through the Reconciliation He died to give.
That has nothing at all to do with a believer's progressive sanctification, other than the fact we have been resurrected spiritually through New Birth. A believer achieving mastery over sin is seldom instantaneous, and in my view never complete, not to the point where the believer can sit back and say "I have arrived. I no longer sin, and isn't God very pleased with me."
What I have found is that the minute I gain mastery over one sin...God shows me another area of my life which I need work in.
Again, He is the One revealing to me a better understanding of sin, and He does so within the framework of the progress I am making. I now understand sin in my life which when I was first saved, would never have even been considered sin.
God bless.
Sorry, but I have to disagree with that. Christ died once to save us, and the life He has saved us to live is not a matter of revisiting the Cross, but a matter of progression that combines the ministry He performs in our lives, which is conforming us to His image, and the means by which He does that which is similar to His ministry of Salvation...by teaching us.
We do not simply look into the Word and intellectually arrange data to bring a result of understanding which we can them implement in our lives. Rather, just as we were dependent in God revealing divine truth to us in our natural state, even so we are dependent of that in our salvation.
And God reveals truth, I believe, according to the diligence of the student. Some groups speak about being "zapped" with supernatural knowledge, when for many of us...there's quite a bit of homework we have to do.
Paul would not have said "study to show thyself approved unto God" if study were not something for the believer. Diligence in Doctrine was not for Timothy or leadership only.
And God is a great Teacher, presenting the information to the believer according to his ability. We don't give Algebra exams to first graders, and neither does God give strong meat to those incapable of digesting it.
Paul rebukes the Corinthians because their practice evidenced a character that apparently he felt should not be the case. He had to treat them as babes.
So will you acknowledge there is a true repentance in the lives of believers?
As far as obedience to the commandments, we have to look at which commandments are in view, and the motive for keeping them.
I think we could conclude that the commandments we are under are far more complex than those which men under Law were under. That Age could be compared to "youth" in the TimeLine of Redemptive History, whereas this Age represents at least the "young man" analogy John speaks about.
Well maybe you could explain to me how my being "crucified" contributes to the Sovereign Work of God in Salvation.
We do not obtain Eternal Life through any contribution we make. Christ died alone on the Cross...no man contributes to Atonement, and no man contributes to Reconciliation.
I do not see any crucifixion of a believer as relevant other than the image of our being dead with Christ. But we have to remember that Christ died alone.
So what repentance do you speak of? Before salvation? During the process of salvation whereby the Holy Spirit brings repentance through enlightening the natural mind to the reality of sin and it's consequences? After salvation where the continuing ministry of the Comforter leads us into all truth, still bringing conviction of sin>
It's a broad subject. I would agree for the most part, because I do not see genuine repentance as something that takes place apart from the revelation of God in regards to sin.
Not sure I could agree with "working the Cross in" so that one can receive life. That is the central focus of eternal life...the Cross.
Christ died that we might have life.
And while the Cross remains a central focus in our understanding, that doesn't mean we do not also recognize the Resurrection, as well as the life which He now lives in us, which is not just about the Cross, but about our interaction in a fallen world.
Not sure I can agree with this either: "resurrection life" is the very thing we receive when we are born again. Christ did not bestow that Life prior to the Cross, and bestows that Life through the Reconciliation He died to give.
That has nothing at all to do with a believer's progressive sanctification, other than the fact we have been resurrected spiritually through New Birth. A believer achieving mastery over sin is seldom instantaneous, and in my view never complete, not to the point where the believer can sit back and say "I have arrived. I no longer sin, and isn't God very pleased with me."
What I have found is that the minute I gain mastery over one sin...God shows me another area of my life which I need work in.
Again, He is the One revealing to me a better understanding of sin, and He does so within the framework of the progress I am making. I now understand sin in my life which when I was first saved, would never have even been considered sin.
God bless.
B
2 Cor 4:7-12
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10 ALWAYS BEARING ABOUT IN THE BODY THE DYING OF THE LORD JESUS, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11 For we which live are ALWAYS DELIVERED UNTO DEATH for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
12 So then DEATH WORKETH IN US, but life in you.
John 12:24,25
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: BUT IF IT DIE, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Mt 10:34-39
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Phil 3:7-10
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10 ALWAYS BEARING ABOUT IN THE BODY THE DYING OF THE LORD JESUS, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11 For we which live are ALWAYS DELIVERED UNTO DEATH for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
12 So then DEATH WORKETH IN US, but life in you.
John 12:24,25
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: BUT IF IT DIE, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Mt 10:34-39
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Phil 3:7-10
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
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