Rapture= false teaching

[miktre]

At the present time, there are Christian brothers and sisters who are with Christ, but that separation does not make us two bodies, because the body of Christ is a spiritual entity.
After seventy-seven pages and over 1500 posts of discussing the timing of the resurrection and various other escatological and non-escatatogical issues, I would like to return to the core of the matter. The most important issue of escatology is this: The Return of Christ.
Mara natha.

Those that are with Christ have died here on earth but for there to be a separation of the church on earth and then deciding yourself as one more special than another is a dangerous proposal.

I do believe in the return of Christ, no doubt. However there will be another coming first.
That is satan with his fallen angels. This is why it's such a big deal deal. Satan comes in peace, he can't win many souls by going around murdering everyone. Satan is a beautiful angel and will perform miracles in the sight of men Christ comes to make war and He will destroy satans fake kingdom

43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

 

[miktre]

I am not sure that the rapture and the resurrection are the same thing. And certainly not at the same time. The resurrection is at the end of the age, at the beginning of the thousand year reign. The rapture, or catching away, is somewhat earlier. Those who have gone to sleep in Christ will not precede us, as we will join Him in the air when He calls us forth. When Christ returns to take up His earthly rule, He leads the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine lined, white and clean, following Him on white horses. Now this may be angels and it may be the bride. But what I find really interesting is that when John is shown the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven, it is called the bride, not the people who will enter and live there, but the city itself is called the bride. As we are the living temple of the Lord, this makes me wonder just what place we have in eternity. The bride, the elect, she is different from the righteous of the nations. The bride is not appointed to wrath. The last half of the 7 year tribulation is most definitely the wrath of God.

So I am not saying one way or the other, only pointing out some interesting things.

Well they are not exactly the same thing but the Bible says they will happen at the same time, in the twinkling of an eye, instantly. This is after the trump has blown.
1 Cor 15
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,and we shall be changed.
AND
1 Thes 4
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be


14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent(come before) them which are asleep.
We shall not be changed before those that have already died rise? Now if Christ is bringing them with him are they really rising out of a hole in the ground? No, it simply means to live again here on earth.

 

[VW]

The redemption of the flesh is our great hope. Or, at least, it should be. For in the redemption of the flesh is the putting off of sin, of corruption, of death, of any separation from our God, of any thing in us which is displeasing to our God. A literal resurrection or a literal rapture. We will all be changed, we will all put off this mortal flesh to put on perfection. A body that is fit for the great gift which resides in our worthless flesh now.

Long ago, I used to believe in the pre-trib rapture. It was a hope, an means of escape from what I saw as a very very dark time, one which I did not wish to endure, for any reason. I now know that this was selfish of me, that I was thinking of myself and my comfort and security in this world above God. I do not believe this way any more, not because I believe it is a wrong teaching, ,(nor do I think it is right.) I believe differently now because my security is in Christ, and I have no fear, because His perfect love has cast out all fear. I believe that the saints will be tested, tried, and that some will even fall. The days ahead are dark days, but the light of God will shine brighter in this darkness.

I believe that the bride has a place, a special place in these things. I believe that those who surrender completely to the leading of the Holy Spirit will be and do and see things which are literally unbelievable. I believe that the bride has a special place in heaven, and that the marriage supper of the Lamb is before the resurrection and that the bride is given fine linen, bright and clean, to cloth herself with, as she has made herself ready. The fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. The next thing we see in heaven is Christ coming out of the opened heavens. After the marriage supper of the Lamb. Now I don't want to make a doctrine, but I kinda believe that the bride will be there for the marriage supper.

In His peace,

 

[miktre]

Lets take a look at the Armour of God. Many Christians do not realize this is telling us how to make it through the tribulation when satan is proclaiming himself to be the Lord. Many that read this post will fall for his deception and be totally unprepared due to the false rapture doctrine. Yes, we need to put on the Armour of God every day, but how much more so in the evil day that satan and the fallen angels are here?

Ephesians 6
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Satans spirit roams the earth this very day, but soon he will be here in his spiritual body.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
The world is being prepared by satans minions, they know their evil messiah is coming.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Satans reign is refereed to in prophecy as night usually, here it is called the evil day. Time and time again we are warned to stand in the last days, never to fly away.

14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Christ is our shield, we shall not be deceived or tempted by satan. We will find him appalling.

17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Lets further document this is speaking of the last days, shall we?

1 Thessalonians 5
1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
Christ already gave them the times and seasons and you should be watching all the night.

3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Christ told us how to escape like Lot did, not by flying away.

4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
We have the truth, how long will you ignore it and believe the fables.

5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
Just as the days of Noah are they drunken.

8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
Here we have the Amour of God in the last days. Have you prepared with the Amour of God or with the fairy-wings of fables?

9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
God's wrath is not appointed for His children, fear not friends.

 

[greatkraw]

still going for the record Miktre?
pretrib premill = love Israel

therefore

anything else = hate israel = antisemitic

 

[miktre]

still going for the record Miktre?
pretrib premill = love Israel

therefore

anything else = hate israel = antisemitic

You are the racist, you think the jews won't be magically flown away like you will be. I believe the grace of Jesus Christ is open to all no matter what race. You will be only worshipping satan when he comes first like the Bible says.

 

[greatkraw]

You are the racist, you think the jews won't be magically flown away like you will be. I believe the grace of Jesus Christ is open to all no matter what race. You will be only worshipping satan when he comes first like the Bible says.

it is more logical to assume that you will be the one fooled


you will go through some tough time and you will think it is the tribulation
then when the antichrist turns up you will think he is the second coming

I, on the other hand aint gonna be fooled by anyone if I havent flown away first

 

[miktre]

it is more logical to assume that you will be the one fooled


you will go through some tough time and you will think it is the tribulation
then when the antichrist turns up you will think he is the second coming

I, on the other hand aint gonna be fooled by anyone if I havent flown away first

I believe the words of Christ when He says not a hair on our head shall perish.
You shall weep and your teeth shall gnash with your false satanic doctrine.

 

[MahogonySnail]

greatkraw, you must admit, you won't have much need of psalm 91 if you believe you will be raptured before trouble hits. Christians should live under psalm 91 protection each and every day even if things dont look so bad. Because you never know, when a car comes around the corner.

 

[miktre]

still going for the record Miktre?
pretrib premill = love Israel

therefore

anything else = hate israel = antisemitic

Lets take it a step further and prove your doctrine is racist. You believe all the believers in Christ will be raptured away. You believe that during the tribulation the jews will be converted and saved, yet a black man in Africa will not have the same opportunity because of his race.

 

[Zilla64007]

just goes to show that some would rather stay ignorant than come to know the truth

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Actually, I think that GreatKraw believes that every Christian of Jewish descent will be taken up at the same time. but he also believes that Israel will find their Messiah during the great tribulation.

 

[miktre]

Actually, I think that GreatKraw believes that every Christian of Jewish descent will be taken up at the same time. but he also believes that Israel will find their Messiah during the great tribulation.

Their messiah? Christ wasn't good enough? So only jews get a chance during tribulation?

 

[Commendez]

WWWWWOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH ok hold up. I thought this was a Christian chat place, yet I see nothing but bitterness and fighting. It's true, you have to be jealous of the Word and hate false doctrine, so hate the false doctrine that someone has been blinded into believing but don't hate the person, this includes show anger against. Many of you believe something whole heartedly because your pastor believes it. Both sides are quoting scripture and accusing the other of misinterpreting it. It's like trying to convince a muslim that their faith is the wrong one, you will be faced with anger and debates at first but if your words hold ground, with time they will sink in, sow the seed and let Christ do the rest. You may be correct in your words but your attitude and approach will automatically make the other create a wall and not see it, so who is at fault for them not understanding the Word of Christ? This is an INTENSE topic, because the times are so close, but if you allow anger to rise up inside against a fellow brother, no matter how true your words are, God will see your heart... not your intent.
So please just chillax and try a different approach.

Here's a question for both sides though...
How, in these days and times, could a mass persecution come against a group of people without it being labeled as genocide? In other words, how would it be possible for a world wide persecution to begin without making it seem suss?
We read that saints will be persecuted, so how, in this day and age, could that happen. What could they be labelled to be seen as an 'enemy of the people' and hence be persecuted?

Much love to everyone =)

 

[greatkraw]

Lets take it a step further and prove your doctrine is racist. You believe all the believers in Christ will be raptured away. You believe that during the tribulation the jews will be converted and saved, yet a black man in Africa will not have the same opportunity because of his race.

see there you go misrepresenting the biblical viewpoint

this shows you are argumentative rather than teachable

there will be gentiles saved in the tribulation; very few will survive
there will be Jews saved; only 144000 are guaranteed to survive
the Jewish Holocaust in the Great Tribulation will wipe out 2/3 of the world's Jews and to justify it the perpetraters will be quoting the same stuff you do

 

[oopsies]

sow the seed and let Christ do the rest.

That has been mentioned a few times at the beginning of this thread but as you can see, they are still debating it lol I find it more amusing to watch than to participate... who cares who's right on the rapture & tribulation?! We will find out when it happens! Who knows, you might even die before then and be spared.

 

[miktre]

Well if you notice I posted scripture and then get attacked. Whats that tell you? It's been that way for quite a while. I tell them to bring scripture and time and again. They seek to take the debate to this level because they have no scripture.

 

[oopsies]

Well if you notice I posted scripture and then get attacked. Whats that tell you? It's been that way for quite a while. I tell them to bring scripture and time and again. They seek to take the debate to this level because they have no scripture.

Miktre... if I weren't a Christian, I would pray that God would drop a brick on your head.

IT'S NOT YOUR JOB TO CONVINCE PEOPLE; IT'S GOD'S JOB.

Present the Scripture (which you already have countless times since we are already on page million something) then LEAVE IT BE. God will speak to people through HIS WORD. People have a CHOICE to ignore GOD. It's not YOUR JOB TO MAKE THEM OBEY.

 

[Abiding]

Joint Heir, Its sad when a person takes a strong stand positionally before they have finished their homework. Ive told many of them we'll explaint it to them on the way up. God bless everyone

 

[miktre]

Miktre... if I weren't a Christian, I would pray that God would drop a brick on your head.

IT'S NOT YOUR JOB TO CONVINCE PEOPLE; IT'S GOD'S JOB.

Present the Scripture (which you already have countless times since we are already on page million something) then LEAVE IT BE. God will speak to people through HIS WORD. People have a CHOICE to ignore GOD. It's not YOUR JOB TO MAKE THEM OBEY.

Why would you pray for something so deviant? I keep presenting scripture and shall continue to do so. I'll do a little better at ignoring the hate filled attacks and ignore your posts and stick to the word.