Is the Devil bound right now...?
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"They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death."
Hi wolfwint,
Bowman just makes it up as he goes along, doesn't he?! The saints triumph over Satan by not loving their lives so much as to resist death while keeping the testimony of Jesus and the word of God. Rev.12:11 has nothing to do with Satan's binding which doesn't take place until after Christ's return to the earth to end the age in Rev.19:11-21.
Also, as we have pointed out so many times before, Satan's binding will be a literal binding under the earth in the Abyss, where it will be locked and sealed over him so that he will have no exposure to the earth's surface and its inhabitants during that literal thousand years, just as the scripture plainly states. Furthermore, after Satan and his angels are thrown out of the heaven, they will be free to focus all of their evil and malice upon the inhabitants of the earth afterward, which is why after he and his angels are thrown out it is stated, "But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury" That being said, there wouldn't be much woe to worry about if Satan was bound at the cross. But I'm sure that, as they always do, they will come up with some circumvention or distortion of the this.
Hi DP,
Apollyon/Destroyer, is that angel of the Abyss, which is a different designation for that beast that comes up out of the Abyss who kills the two witnesses and is the same beast who is given power and authority over the great tribulation saints to make war and to conquer them for forty-two months, which is that last 3 1/2 years. That being said, please consider the following:
"But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
"And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."
Taking the two scriptures above into consideration, when Christ returns to end the age, the beast along with the false prophet are both thrown alive into the lake of fire, where immediately afterwards Satan is locked up in the Abyss. Therefore since, the beast and Satan are restricted in two different places at the coming of Christ, they cannot possibly be the same entities. In fact, while the beast and false prophet will have been in the lake of fire at the beginning of the thousand years, which is where they will stay, Satan on the other hand is let out of the Abyss at the end of the thousand years where he rebels on more time and then he himself is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet will have been thrown previously.
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
Apollyon/Destroyer, is that angel of the Abyss, which is a different designation for that beast that comes up out of the Abyss who kills the two witnesses and is the same beast who is given power and authority over the great tribulation saints to make war and to conquer them for forty-two months, which is that last 3 1/2 years. That being said, please consider the following:
"But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
"And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."
Taking the two scriptures above into consideration, when Christ returns to end the age, the beast along with the false prophet are both thrown alive into the lake of fire, where immediately afterwards Satan is locked up in the Abyss. Therefore since, the beast and Satan are restricted in two different places at the coming of Christ, they cannot possibly be the same entities. In fact, while the beast and false prophet will have been in the lake of fire at the beginning of the thousand years, which is where they will stay, Satan on the other hand is let out of the Abyss at the end of the thousand years where he rebels on more time and then he himself is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet will have been thrown previously.
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
There is plenty of scriptural proof.
With what exact scripture do you disagree...do you even know...?
Past, present, and future.
This is the theme repeated over and over again in Revelation, as told to the reader, all the way back in Rev 1, as thus...
Write what things you saw, and what things are, and what things are about to occur after these things. (Rev 1.19)
Again, in Rev 8, at the third trumpet, we are told that Satan falls from Heaven, and is named Wormwood.
Revelation is NOT linear, people...
With what exact scripture do you disagree...do you even know...?
Past, present, and future.
This is the theme repeated over and over again in Revelation, as told to the reader, all the way back in Rev 1, as thus...
Write what things you saw, and what things are, and what things are about to occur after these things. (Rev 1.19)
Again, in Rev 8, at the third trumpet, we are told that Satan falls from Heaven, and is named Wormwood.
Revelation is NOT linear, people...
You ignore context, Rev 12.14 informs the reader that Satan is bound for a specific time period, as thus...
And two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, that she might fly into the wilderness, to her place, where she is nourished there a time, and times, and half a time, away from the serpent's face.
You keep slavishly and mindlessly repeating your same mantra.
However, when asked to show your exegesis, you fold like a deck of cards and run out to the gym and squeeze out a few more reps...then...you come back a few days later and repeat your same ol' meriless assertions.
Where's the beef...?
Showing you scripture against your position is like casting pearls before swine.
Its most certainly NOT for your benefit, because you are proudly scripturally ignorant, rather, it is for the benefit of others...
No it is what the Parable of Ten Virgins teaches in plain ENGLISH, and you just cannot understand it.
Most likely the following is the cause of your inability to understand:
1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
YOU HAVE TO BE BORN AGAIN TO UNDERSTAND THE SPIRITUAL TRUTHS IN THE PARABLE OF TEN VIRGINS AND OTHER PRE-TRIBULATION VERSES.
If you want to Read a detailed explanation of my beliefs, it has very little to do with DARBY, whom I have never read, and great deal to do with a Jewish Christian understanding of a number of verses. Here is a link to a thread I started on July 10th, 2014: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/95283-calling-out-bride-go-wedding-lamb.html
As for the Locusts, NO, they are the Demons turned loose on the unbelieving humanity. Dr. John MacArthur is a lot better at explaining it than I am:
Most likely the following is the cause of your inability to understand:
1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
YOU HAVE TO BE BORN AGAIN TO UNDERSTAND THE SPIRITUAL TRUTHS IN THE PARABLE OF TEN VIRGINS AND OTHER PRE-TRIBULATION VERSES.
If you want to Read a detailed explanation of my beliefs, it has very little to do with DARBY, whom I have never read, and great deal to do with a Jewish Christian understanding of a number of verses. Here is a link to a thread I started on July 10th, 2014: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/95283-calling-out-bride-go-wedding-lamb.html
As for the Locusts, NO, they are the Demons turned loose on the unbelieving humanity. Dr. John MacArthur is a lot better at explaining it than I am:
and until now some of those people who still believes that satan is bound then
look again what happens to paris
:now: and see it for yourselves
imagine how this verses wants to tell us
:read:
Hebrews: 13. 3. Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; them that are illtreated, as being yourselves also in the body.
God bless us all always
:ty:
look again what happens to paris
:now: and see it for yourselves
imagine how this verses wants to tell us
:read:
Hebrews: 13. 3. Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; them that are illtreated, as being yourselves also in the body.
God bless us all always
:ty:
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You cannot blame the act of terrorism, that just occurred in Paris, on Satan being loosed from his prison.
Jesus, Himself, told us in Mat 24 that terrible things would occur BEFORE the end comes, and BEFORE the release of the 'abomination of desolation' (i.e. Satan).
Jesus lists-out many things occurring BEFORE the release of Satan....false prophets, wars, rumors of wars, nation set against nation, famine, plagues, earthquakes, the killing of Christians, etc...
So....what we are seeing today IS to be expected, per scripture.
But....
When Satan is unbound, we will see, for a brief period, 'great affliction, such as has not happened from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be.'
Everything going on in the world today has been seen played-out in various forms for thousands of years.
Clearly, any student of scripture can see that Satan is bound today.
Study your scriptures, and thank God that Satan is currently bound!
That is adding an idea to that Scripture that's not written there.
Rev 12:11
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
KJV
That verse is about the trials of the saints. That in relation to that Rev.12:9 forward context of the devil and his angels cast to the earth and going after God's people is showing great tribulation timing, not the time of Jesus' crucifixion.
Rev 12:11
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
KJV
That verse is about the trials of the saints. That in relation to that Rev.12:9 forward context of the devil and his angels cast to the earth and going after God's people is showing great tribulation timing, not the time of Jesus' crucifixion.
It's not my theory, you simply don't understand how God uses symbolism in His Holy Writ.
Satan has many titles throughout God's Word. In Deuteronomy 32:31 with, "For their rock is not as our Rock, ...", that uncapitalized "rock" is symbolic of Satan, since uppercase "Rock" is symbolic of our Heavenly Father. (see 1 Sam.2:2; Ps.18)
Satan has many titles throughout God's Word. In Deuteronomy 32:31 with, "For their rock is not as our Rock, ...", that uncapitalized "rock" is symbolic of Satan, since uppercase "Rock" is symbolic of our Heavenly Father. (see 1 Sam.2:2; Ps.18)
Haven't we been there before on that point???
My stance on the Rev.9, 11, 12, 13, 17, and 19 chapters about Satan is that he is coming with his angels to cause the great tribulation, and he will fulfill multiple duties or roles. One is the role of the false prophet, which is the same one of Rev.13:11 called the "another beast", a 2nd beast described in that chapter, which is also hinted at as being the dragon (which is the devil).
Thus both the second beast (wonder worker of Rev.13), and the false prophet (first mention in Rev.16:13), are roles Satan will play. That's why Rev.16:13 reveals "... three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet." Those unclean spirits originate from the same source, the devil himself.
That is HOW the beast and false prophet can be cast into the "lake of fire" at Jesus' coming, while not upsetting the balance of God's later GWT Judgment, for no flesh man is judged and sentenced to perish until after Christ's "thousand years" reign.
I have no need to read any links you provide, I am quite able to recognize the Pre-trib Rapture theory in your statements regardless of you not being familiar with who John Nelson Darby was. As a matter of fact, most believers on that Pre-trib theory aren't aware of who Darby was either, which is why I mentioned it, so you could do your own research on the doctrine.
But instead, you try to pass all that off with your vanity of being superior, falsely accusing me of not being 'born again' of The Spirit, and thus not being able to understand Christ's parable of the ten virgins.
The REALITY OF THE MATTER is that you reveal by your words in the previous post, it is YOU that cannot understand about the locusts of the Book of Joel, since it is especially about the time of the very end, just as all... Books of the OT minor prophets contain prophecy specific to the very end of this world.
As for my Lord Jesus' parable of the ten virgins, here it is, in simplicity as written, and BY The Holy Spirit giving its meaning. This will serve as a nice break from the subject here:
Matt 25:1-13
25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Ten virgins (believers) prepare to meet the bridegroom (Jesus). Five of them were wise, five were foolish.
The wise ones brought the Oil (Holy Spirit) in their lamps along with a spare vessel of the Oil. The five foolish ones only brought the Oil that was in their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
While waiting for Christ's coming, they all slumber.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Then the Oil in the lamps of the five foolish virgins runs out, and they ask to borrow of the five wise virgins.
The five wise virgins then answer them with...
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
The five wise virgins tell the foolish ones to GO BUY FROM THOSE THAT SELL! What's the problem with that? The problem is that the Oil (Holy Spirit) cannot... be bought.
So when they return, they find Jesus has shut the door on them, having only allowed the five wise virgins in (His elect).
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, "Lord, Lord, open to us."
12 But he answered and said, "Verily I say unto you, I know you not."
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
KJV
At the end of the parable, our Lord Jesus gives a reminder of what He had covered at the last part of the previous Matthew 24 chapter, that of the watchman staying on watch to not allow the thief to break in at midnight.
Why would He give that warning to watch again here after the ten virgin parable?
It becomes easier to understand once it's understood why the five foolish virgins thought they could BUY the Oil (Holy Spirit). What they had latched onto were circus side shows in their Churches, money ministries, manifestations, etc., just about anything except... a disciplined line upon line study in God's Holy Writ with the help of The Holy Spirit in order to know how Jesus meant for His servants to 'watch' for His second coming.
But instead, you try to pass all that off with your vanity of being superior, falsely accusing me of not being 'born again' of The Spirit, and thus not being able to understand Christ's parable of the ten virgins.
The REALITY OF THE MATTER is that you reveal by your words in the previous post, it is YOU that cannot understand about the locusts of the Book of Joel, since it is especially about the time of the very end, just as all... Books of the OT minor prophets contain prophecy specific to the very end of this world.
As for my Lord Jesus' parable of the ten virgins, here it is, in simplicity as written, and BY The Holy Spirit giving its meaning. This will serve as a nice break from the subject here:
Matt 25:1-13
25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Ten virgins (believers) prepare to meet the bridegroom (Jesus). Five of them were wise, five were foolish.
The wise ones brought the Oil (Holy Spirit) in their lamps along with a spare vessel of the Oil. The five foolish ones only brought the Oil that was in their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
While waiting for Christ's coming, they all slumber.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Then the Oil in the lamps of the five foolish virgins runs out, and they ask to borrow of the five wise virgins.
The five wise virgins then answer them with...
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
The five wise virgins tell the foolish ones to GO BUY FROM THOSE THAT SELL! What's the problem with that? The problem is that the Oil (Holy Spirit) cannot... be bought.
So when they return, they find Jesus has shut the door on them, having only allowed the five wise virgins in (His elect).
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, "Lord, Lord, open to us."
12 But he answered and said, "Verily I say unto you, I know you not."
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
KJV
At the end of the parable, our Lord Jesus gives a reminder of what He had covered at the last part of the previous Matthew 24 chapter, that of the watchman staying on watch to not allow the thief to break in at midnight.
Why would He give that warning to watch again here after the ten virgin parable?
It becomes easier to understand once it's understood why the five foolish virgins thought they could BUY the Oil (Holy Spirit). What they had latched onto were circus side shows in their Churches, money ministries, manifestations, etc., just about anything except... a disciplined line upon line study in God's Holy Writ with the help of The Holy Spirit in order to know how Jesus meant for His servants to 'watch' for His second coming.
I must add to my previous post also about the five foolish virgins...
If you want a prime example of a group of brethren that are taught to NOT watch, like our Lord Jesus commanded us to do, then look at the theories taught in the Pre-trib Rapture doctrine of men.
On the whole, they do not teach watching the times and the seasons leading up to our Lord Jesus' second coming. They instead teach ideas like Jesus' coming is immanent, and can happen "at any time", so just be ready.
Their "be ready" idea they teach excludes the signs of the end our Lord Jesus gave, and His command for us to stay on watch regarding events leading up to His return. That is also why their doctrinists teach Christ's Church is raptured by the 4th chapter of Revelation, and the rest of Revelation therefore does not apply to them (they wrongly think).
And then another favorite line of theirs is, "we are not appointed to God's wrath", so how can those Revelation chapters apply to Christ's Church? One of their huge problems is they can't distinguish the difference in God's Word between the time of Satan's wrath compared to the time of God's cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked.
Again, that points to their lack of discipline in understanding God's Word by The Holy Spirit. How can The Holy Spirit show the believer understanding in God's Holy Writ if the believer won't get down to disciplined study in It??? Oh, but some of the pre-trib rapture Churches are great about playing repetitious music in their Churches to invoke spiritism (like the pagans do), working the congregation up to a frenzy, running up and down the aisles, falling in the floor and rolling around while making animal noises, laughing and bodily jerking uncontrollably, all signs they claim is of The Holy Spirit.
If you want a prime example of a group of brethren that are taught to NOT watch, like our Lord Jesus commanded us to do, then look at the theories taught in the Pre-trib Rapture doctrine of men.
On the whole, they do not teach watching the times and the seasons leading up to our Lord Jesus' second coming. They instead teach ideas like Jesus' coming is immanent, and can happen "at any time", so just be ready.
Their "be ready" idea they teach excludes the signs of the end our Lord Jesus gave, and His command for us to stay on watch regarding events leading up to His return. That is also why their doctrinists teach Christ's Church is raptured by the 4th chapter of Revelation, and the rest of Revelation therefore does not apply to them (they wrongly think).
And then another favorite line of theirs is, "we are not appointed to God's wrath", so how can those Revelation chapters apply to Christ's Church? One of their huge problems is they can't distinguish the difference in God's Word between the time of Satan's wrath compared to the time of God's cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked.
Again, that points to their lack of discipline in understanding God's Word by The Holy Spirit. How can The Holy Spirit show the believer understanding in God's Holy Writ if the believer won't get down to disciplined study in It??? Oh, but some of the pre-trib rapture Churches are great about playing repetitious music in their Churches to invoke spiritism (like the pagans do), working the congregation up to a frenzy, running up and down the aisles, falling in the floor and rolling around while making animal noises, laughing and bodily jerking uncontrollably, all signs they claim is of The Holy Spirit.
OF COURSE JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS AND WE ARE TO OVERCOME THROUGH HIS BLOOD, BUT JESUS' DEATH IS NOT AT THE REV.12:9-17 TIME WHICH SCRIPTURE CONTEXT IS GIVING THERE! INSTEAD IT SHOWS JESUS HAD ALREADY DIED AND RESURRECTED IN ORDER FOR THEM TO OVERCOME THROUGH HIS BLOOD!!!!
Instead, what's happening there in Rev.12:9 forward? The devil and his angels are cast to the earth and go to persecute God's people, especially Christ's Church, BECAUSE... like even YOU showed, Jesus' death and resurrection was given there in the aorist tense as already happened!
Instead, what's happening there in Rev.12:9 forward? The devil and his angels are cast to the earth and go to persecute God's people, especially Christ's Church, BECAUSE... like even YOU showed, Jesus' death and resurrection was given there in the aorist tense as already happened!
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Rev 12 summarizes many things:
· Satan and his angels being cast to the earth.
· Jesus' death and subsequent singular Resurrection.
· The ‘1K year reign’ being AWAY from the presence of Satan (i.e. Satan is Bound).
· Satan sending a ‘river’ (i.e. the demons) after mankind – again, because he is bound and cannot make it in person.
· Satan and his angels being cast to the earth.
· Jesus' death and subsequent singular Resurrection.
· The ‘1K year reign’ being AWAY from the presence of Satan (i.e. Satan is Bound).
· Satan sending a ‘river’ (i.e. the demons) after mankind – again, because he is bound and cannot make it in person.
dear Bowman this is your way of understanding, but i cant find a scripture proof of it. and it makes no sense to debate with you on it, because you believing your way. To believe that Satan is bound yet, you only can proof in the way to missinterpret verses which obviously dont speak about it
Well, you are free to believe that, but you cant convince, because you ignore scripture which you also can use literal and not spiritual ore allegoric. So what is your goal with this thread?
Well, you are free to believe that, but you cant convince, because you ignore scripture which you also can use literal and not spiritual ore allegoric. So what is your goal with this thread?
The Scripture PROOF of Satan being bound is Matt 12.28-29 and parallels. The problem is that those with their own theories WILL NOT BELIEVE HIM.
I will accept Jesus word against all comes. He said The Strong Man (Satan) has been bound. Argue it how you like. But if you view disagrees with that YOU ARE WRONG
I will accept Jesus word against all comes. He said The Strong Man (Satan) has been bound. Argue it how you like. But if you view disagrees with that YOU ARE WRONG