Why I keep the Sabbath FYI.

[GandalfTheWhite]

Again your logic is faulty. Did Jesus not give the whole of the law at sanai? Yet by your own admittance it doesn't all have to be kept. So by not answering the question you admit there is no verse of scripture in the entire NT they requires me to observe a specific seventh day Sabbath

None of your quoted verses state God wrote the law on the mind and placed it on the heart of the convert under the old covenant.
When Jeremiah prophecies of this specifically taking place the prophecy begins:

The tine IS COMING( it is not there yet) when i will make a NEW covenant......... And verse 33 is part of that new covenant

It seems to me you are not prepared to accept the word of God concerning this. You are ignoring the word of God concerning the core of the new covenant

LOL, I have never in my life seen people so blind to the word of God than some grace believers on this website. I will actually have more results speaking to an atheist.

Pss 37:31 The law of his God [is] in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

So David was delusional?

No brother, your hate for the law of God is evident for all to see and as a result it is impossible to have a decent conversation with you regarding this matter. You are blinded by one or two verses and fortunately for me that is all that you quote so it is easy to see the flaw in what you believe.

 

[james57]

LOL, I have never in my life seen people so blind to the word of God than some grace believers on this website. I will actually have more results ye speaking to an atheist.

Pss 37:31 The law of his God [is] in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

So David was delusional?

No brother, your hate for the law of God is evident for all to see and as a result it is impossible to have a decent conversation with you regarding this matter. You are blinded by one or two verses and fortunately for me that is all that you quote so it is easy to see the flaw in what you believe.

You are hopelessly wrong. As I have already told you, when Jeremiah spoke of this he started the prophecy with:
The time is coming( it is not their yet)

In heb ch10 the first fourteen verses are of Christs sacrifice to take away sins. This is what follows straight after:

The holy spirit also testifies to us ABOUT THIS( the covenant the writer has been speaking of)
This is the covenant I will make with them AFTER THAT TIME says the lord
I will write my laws on their minds
And place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more

I am afraid your hatred for the heart of the new covenant is plain for all to see. For you ignore what is plainly specific to it.
As for hatred of Gods laws. Would you like me to again repeat what I have found amongst those who look to the literal letter to know what sin is?
I have found they insist you obey legalistic laws but ignore much of the moral law, as the Pharisees of Jesus day did of course

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

You are hopelessly wrong. As I have already told you, when Jeremiah spoke of this he started the prophecy with:
The time is coming( it is not their yet)

In heb ch10 the first fourteen verses are of Christs sacrifice to take away sins. This is what follows straight after:

The holy spirit also testifies to us ABOUT THIS( the covenant the writer has been speaking of)
This is the covenant I will make with them AFTER THAT TIME says the lord
I will write my laws on their minds
And place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more

I am afraid your hatred for the heart of the new covenant is plain for all to see. For you ignore what is plainly specific to it.
As for hatred of Gods laws. Would you like me to again repeat what I have found amongst those who look to the literal letter to know what sin is?
I have found they insist you obey legalistic laws but ignore much of the moral law, as the Pharisees of Jesus day did of course

You keep on denying the word of God from your past experience with one group of people. What would you have done if you served under David? Would you also hate the law because of what he did? The problem is with mankind not with God my friend.

I made it clear that I believe that God never changed and that the cross of Yeshua is there for us to see since the first words spoken by God when He created the heaven and earth. The plan was always there so was the law... and if the law was there since day 1 it will likely still be there the day Jesus return for his children

 

[gotime]

In post 282 on the other thread you wrote:

I Don't know why God took Elijah and no one else. However I do find it interesting that Elijah was one of those who came to Jesus to help Him before He died on the cross. Maybe that was the reason I don't know. I don't think though that it was because he was better than others


tHEN IN POST 298 you wrote:

Like yesterday you said I did not agree with my own Churches teaching but I do it was you who got something wrong on what I believe.

today you think I did not believe that only a few went to heaven while the rest await the resurrection but I have believe that for a long time.

In 269 you wrote:
Christ is the first fruits from the dead as the scripture says, but He is not the first to actually rise from the dead as Moses and numerous others Old and new testament have been raised. however most of them saw death again. Except Elijah and Moses.

Lol I knew I was tired that night. Had a few late nights brain was obviously not working great.

So to clarify for you if you care to know. I believe Elijah, Moses and even Enoch went to heaven. and whoever was raised when Jesus rose. But only Elijah is explicitly said to have gone. Moses and Enoch are implied by deduction. But I am tired tonight also big drive late night so I wont go into it at the risk of muddling my words and not explaining properly.

 

[james57]

You keep on denying the word of God from your past experience with one group of people. What would you have done if you served under David? Would you also hate the law because of what he did? The problem is with mankind not with God my friend.

I made it clear that I believe that God never changed and that the cross of Yeshua is there for us to see since the first words spoken by God when He created the heaven and earth. The plan was always there so was the law... and if the law was there since day 1 it will likely still be there the day Jesus return for his children

Well go time accepts under the new covenant the law got transferred onto the heart and mind of the believer so it seems you are a lone voice that denies that is specific to the new covenant!
David loved God, therefore in his heart he wanted to obey God( his laws) discernment should show you that is very different from God actually writing his laws on the minds and placing them on the hearts of all those I covenant with him

I am afraid it I you denying the word of God my friend and Thi has led to contradictory statements on your part. On the one hand you say we must obey Christs law for he gave it, Tha is the word of God but at the same Tim you freely admit much of that law you disregard
Wisdom is always proved right by its inconsistencies

I will give you yet more proof you ignore what is at the heart of the new covenant:

You show you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the spirit of God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts2cor3:3

I didn't get my beliefs from that group of people, I already had them, they just confirmed/ endorsed my beliefs were correct

 

[gotime]

1) Jesus said we must keep his commandments. If you want to I can give you all 10?

2) Pss 37:31 The law of his God [is] in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

Pss 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.

Prov 3:1 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:

Isa 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart [is] my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

Job 22:22 Receive, I pray thee, the law from his mouth, and lay up his words in thine heart.

Deut 32:46 And he said unto them, Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law.

Ezra 7:10 For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the law of the Lord, and to do [it], and to teach in Israel statutes and judgments.

Its hard to explain to people that the law on the heart is not new it is just as much part of the Old Covenant as it is the new. God tried to Get Israel to see that but they kept only looking at the surface and working as if they could do it in their own strength. But if they had faith they would have succeeded just as easily as the Gentiles do under the new covenant as they are grafted in.

The new covenant about the law on the heart is not a new concept but a new method and that is by Jesus who came and made known the law in the way he lived and treated people and thus God opened the eyes of all who would see and then the law could be on the heart as it always was intended.

 

[james57]

Lol I knew I was tired that night. Had a few late nights brain was obviously not working great.

So to clarify for you if you care to know. I believe Elijah, Moses and even Enoch went to heaven. and whoever was raised when Jesus rose. But only Elijah is explicitly said to have gone. Moses and Enoch are implied by deduction. But I am tired tonight also big drive late night so I wont go into it at the risk of muddling my words and not explaining properly.

Just to be clear. Is your position now, Enoch, Moses and Elijah entered heaven when they left this earth to dwell with God but no one else in OT times did?
You are aware Tha Enoch and Moses are mentioned in hwb ch11 of which you quoted two verses specific to the people mentioned in that chaper as proof not all went to heaven when they departed this earth.

So you believe. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, samuel, and all the prophets did not enter heaven, only three people did in OT times
And you don't believe these three people needed to obtain eternal life to enter heaven

Is the above correct so as I do not misunderstand you?

 

[gotime]

The new covenant is about knowing God just like the Old but in the New its based on a better revelation, Jesus in human flesh.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

The heart of the new covenant is all shall know me.

This was the problem in the Old covenant concerning the law on the heart or knowing Him. after all God had done they looked at the outward forms instead of seeing God.

Jer 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

 

[gotime]

Just to be clear. Is your position now, Enoch, Moses and Elijah entered heaven when they left this earth to dwell with God but no one else in OT times did?
You are aware Tha Enoch and Moses are mentioned in hwb ch11 of which you quoted two verses specific to the people mentioned in that chaper as proof not all went to heaven when they departed this earth.

So you believe. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, samuel, and all the prophets did not enter heaven, only three people did in OT times
And you don't believe these three people needed to obtain eternal life to enter heaven

Is the above correct so as I do not misunderstand you?

no that is not correct, I did put a post on where I was wrong on Hebrews 11. Hebrews 11 is not talking about heaven but the new earth when sin is totally destroyed. I missed the context in Hebrews 11 so I made a false assumption that the promise was heaven. I did a post to correct that misconception on my part.

As to the eternal life bit no also. They had eternal life by their faith in the lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world, which was ratified at the cross Just as all faith is ratified at the cross.

 

[gotime]

As it is written:

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

But their sins were forgiven when they confessed in the Old testament even though Christ had not yet paid the price but at the cross it was ratified.

 

[gotime]

ANyway I am tired so I wont go on more lest I repeat my mistakes of last time.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Its hard to explain to people that the law on the heart is not new it is just as much part of the Old Covenant as it is the new. God tried to Get Israel to see that but they kept only looking at the surface and working as if they could do it in their own strength. But if they had faith they would have succeeded just as easily as the Gentiles do under the new covenant as they are grafted in.

The new covenant about the law on the heart is not a new concept but a new method and that is by Jesus who came and made known the law in the way he lived and treated people and thus God opened the eyes of all who would see and then the law could be on the heart as it always was intended.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

It is always fascinating when people attack you for keeping the law but when you start a discussion with them about Abraham, they just go of the topic. "The Law" was given to Moses, but Abraham kept it. Romans 4 tells us that Abraham was not saved by the law but through faith. People don't get it. I am not keeping the law for salvation but because I am in covenant with God. The law is God's marriage contract (or covenant).

I can't be married to my wife but sleep around with other women... we have a marriage contract with God the day we accept Him as our Lord and Saviour and we are then in covenant. We are part of His bride and we need to be in covenant with Him. The covenant is written on our hearts, but like you said it is nothing new, it was like that in the days before Moses. Where did Abraham get the law? It was written on his heart... not for his salvation but because of his obedience to ABBA Father

I asked James this question before but he couldn't understand it... and then he told me about the people in his old church... as if that should have any bearing on my faith

 

[james57]

no that is not correct, I did put a post on where I was wrong on Hebrews 11. Hebrews 11 is not talking about heaven but the new earth when sin is totally destroyed. I missed the context in Hebrews 11 so I made a false assumption that the promise was heaven. I did a post to correct that misconception on my part.

As to the eternal life bit no also. They had eternal life by their faith in the lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world, which was ratified at the cross Just as all faith is ratified at the cross.

I mean this sincerely. I think it bed to cease discussion with you on this subject, you have made so many conflicting/ differing statements on this subject you have left me at a loss to understand any firm position you hold. I pasted two of your posts yesterday where you plainly did bot believe eternal life needed to be received to enter heaven.you believe people entered heaven when Christ plainly stated no one had entered heaven
I really do mean this kindly. Why not go away and if Thi subject is important to you work out a doctrine on it you can firmly hold to, because I am genuinely lost as to you holding a firm cohesive doctrine on this subject

 

[gotime]

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

It is always fascinating when people attack you for keeping the law but when you start a discussion with them about Abraham, they just go of the topic. "The Law" was given to Moses, but Abraham kept it. Romans 4 tells us that Abraham was not saved by the law but through faith. People don't get it. I am not keeping the law for salvation but because I am in covenant with God. The law is God's marriage contract (or covenant).

I can't be married to my wife but sleep around with other women... we have a marriage contract with God the day we accept Him as our Lord and Saviour and we are then in covenant. We are part of His bride and we need to be in covenant with Him. The covenant is written on our hearts, but like you said it is nothing new, it was like that in the days before Moses. Where did Abraham get the law? It was written on his heart... not for his salvation but because of his obedience to ABBA Father

I asked James this question before but he couldn't understand it... and then he told me about the people in his old church... as if that should have any bearing on my faith

I like that you used marriage covenant. A lot of people don't realize that the law is based around marriage principles.

Many do not understand, The problem is they don't know the Old Covenant. So they make assumptions on what it really is and thus assumptions on what the new really is.

The whole sin thing began in heaven where Lucifer who was an upholder of Gods law turned from God and hated his law of love. This is why the dragon is angry with those who keep the commandments or in other words are faithful to their marriage vows.

 

[gotime]

I mean this sincerely. I think it bed to cease discussion with you on this subject, you have made so many conflicting/ differing statements on this subject you have left me at a loss to understand any firm position you hold. I pasted two of your posts yesterday where you plainly did bot believe eternal life needed to be received to enter heaven.you believe people entered heaven when Christ plainly stated no one had entered heaven
I really do mean this kindly. Why not go away and if Thi subject is important to you work out a doctrine on it you can firmly hold to, because I am genuinely lost as to you holding a firm cohesive doctrine on this subject

Well I just corrected some of them. But hey that is fine I have no need to continue. I only went this long cause you were asking questions. and partly cause I can not for the life of me see your position. So agreed lets end this topic.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I like that you used marriage covenant. A lot of people don't realize that the law is based around marriage principles.

Many do not understand, The problem is they don't know the Old Covenant. So they make assumptions on what it really is and thus assumptions on what the new really is.

The whole sin thing began in heaven where Lucifer who was an upholder of Gods law turned from God and hated his law of love. This is why the dragon is angry with those who keep the commandments or in other words are faithful to their marriage vows.

Now you are talking brother

 

[james57]

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

It is always fascinating when people attack you for keeping the law but when you start a discussion with them about Abraham, they just go of the topic. "The Law" was given to Moses, but Abraham kept it. Romans 4 tells us that Abraham was not saved by the law but through faith. People don't get it. I am not keeping the law for salvation but because I am in covenant with God. The law is God's marriage contract (or covenant).

I can't be married to my wife but sleep around with other women... we have a marriage contract with God the day we accept Him as our Lord and Saviour and we are then in covenant. We are part of His bride and we need to be in covenant with Him. The covenant is written on our hearts, but like you said it is nothing new, it was like that in the days before Moses. Where did Abraham get the law? It was written on his heart... not for his salvation but because of his obedience to ABBA Father

I asked James this question before but he couldn't understand it... and then he told me about the people in his old church... as if that should have any bearing on my faith

It wasn't my old church that i went to because I was convicted to go to it through its teaching. It is a church I went to to please a friend
As to the law that you believe was on Abrahams heart. I continually asked you which law you believed Tha to be, only to be told I was evading answering, and it would be too much law to write out.

 

[james57]

Well I just corrected some of them. But hey that is fine I have no need to continue. I only went this long cause you were asking questions. and partly cause I can not for the life of me see your position. So agreed lets end this topic.

Lol, you cannot see my position while you kept changing yours!
I find that amusing. I never changed my position at all

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Ex 16:28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

Wonder what law God was referring to when he spoke to Moses before Sinai?

 

[gotime]

Now you are talking brother

The new covenant is also based around marriage principles, which one would expect because new or old the covenants both had vows which are the same and the marriage is based on knowing Him.

THe last supper as I am sure you probably know already is based around the marriage proposal. Then Jesus goes to prepare a place or the marriage chamber. etc etc. I wont go on you probably already know.