Why I keep the Sabbath FYI.

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Oct 21, 2015
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Lol I don't believe that, how did you come up with that? Well it really does not matter, I don't believe that. close but not right.
In post 282 on the other thread you wrote:

I Don't know why God took Elijah and no one else. However I do find it interesting that Elijah was one of those who came to Jesus to help Him before He died on the cross. Maybe that was the reason I don't know. I don't think though that it was because he was better than others


You then denied you believed only Elijah was taken to Heaven in OT TIMES
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Lol I don't believe that, how did you come up with that? Well it really does not matter, I don't believe that. close but not right.
tHEN IN POST 298 you wrote:

Like yesterday you said I did not agree with my own Churches teaching but I do it was you who got something wrong on what I believe.

today you think I did not believe that only a few went to heaven while the rest await the resurrection but I have believe that for a long time.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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In post 282 on the other thread you wrote:

I Don't know why God took Elijah and no one else. However I do find it interesting that Elijah was one of those who came to Jesus to help Him before He died on the cross. Maybe that was the reason I don't know. I don't think though that it was because he was better than others


You then denied you believed only Elijah was taken to Heaven in OT TIMES
In post 266 you wrote:

I accept what I said that only a few have gone to heaven the rest wait for the resurrection. we believe that because that is what the bible says.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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In post 282 on the other thread you wrote:

I Don't know why God took Elijah and no one else. However I do find it interesting that Elijah was one of those who came to Jesus to help Him before He died on the cross. Maybe that was the reason I don't know. I don't think though that it was because he was better than others


tHEN IN POST 298 you wrote:

Like yesterday you said I did not agree with my own Churches teaching but I do it was you who got something wrong on what I believe.

today you think I did not believe that only a few went to heaven while the rest await the resurrection but I have believe that for a long time.

In 269 you wrote:
Christ is the first fruits from the dead as the scripture says, but He is not the first to actually rise from the dead as Moses and numerous others Old and new testament have been raised. however most of them saw death again. Except Elijah and Moses.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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I have found the people who believe in a free for all apart from the legalistic law are people who concentrate on the literal letter to know how God wants them to live

I did explain to you I know three people who go to church on a Saturday who have multiple affairs while joining in enthusiastically the church services, and they all take the Lords name in vain without conscience, laughing as they do so. I would call that a free for all, wouldn't you?
You are diverting because you are scared of the answer... or maybe you don't have an answer?
 
Oct 21, 2015
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So if you share the gospel do you tell people it is a free for all as long as the Holy Spirit don't convict them?
Crazy, you got a very good answer.

But you can have another one if you like

God doesn't make mistakes. He writes the law on your mind and places it on your heart he wants you to keep. Therefore you must have a conscience when you break that law, for through the law we become conscious of sin.

So when I went to a church on a Saturday, and for the first time in my life saw people committed to going to church, seemingly without conscience at having multiple affairs and laughing when they took the Lords name in vain, I was truly shocked. I cannot overemphasise how stunned I was at what I was seeing.

The moral of the story is, the Holy Spirit is a far better convictor of sin than the literal letter
 
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Jan 25, 2015
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If the holy spirit doesn't witness that something is sin, then yes, we are free. Does that scare you?
Not at all. But what I do find scary is people walking around with a holier than thou attitude convincing others about a free for all religion where everything goes. That is mixing of seed and God spit it out.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Not at all. But what I do find scary is people walking around with a holier than thou attitude convincing others about a free for all religion where everything goes. That is mixing of seed and God spit it out.
And I can tell you with, forty years of experience of going to church, you just described people I met when I went to church on a Saturday, people who insist the literal letter of commands must be obeyed. People who did not understand under the new covenant the law was placed within them. Mind you, the minister denied it was the truth also
 
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Jan 25, 2015
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Crazy, you got a very good answer.

But you can have another one if you like

God doesn't make mistakes. He writes the law on your mind and places it on your heart he wants you to keep. Therefore you must have a conscience when you break that law, for through the law we become conscious of sin.

So when I went to a church on a Saturday, and for the first time in my life saw people committed to going to church, seemingly without conscience at having multiple affairs and laughing when they took the Lords name in vain, I was truly shocked. I cannot overemphasise how stunned I was at what I was seeing.

The moral of the story is, the Holy Spirit is a far better convictor of sin than the literal letter
What you are doing is judging people by the actions of people. That is morality but we should not judge. We should discern without judgement but I think you are blinded by the hurt you felt from this group of people.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Not at all. But what I do find scary is people walking around with a holier than thou attitude convincing others about a free for all religion where everything goes. That is mixing of seed and God spit it out.
Sounds like James57 was describing such persons in his previous post.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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What you are doing is judging people by the actions of people. That is morality but we should not judge. We should discern without judgement but I think you are blinded by the hurt you felt from this group of people.
Well it seems to me you are judging that if a person believes the law is within them, rather than needing to look to the literal letter they believe in a free for all. I am entitled to point out the very opposite is true.

I was not personally hurt by that group, though I did believe it was tragic the way they acted. Actually, they simply reinforced my Christian beliefs on this subject. It was an endorsement/proof of what I believe to be true
 
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Sep 4, 2012
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What you are doing is judging people by the actions of people. That is morality but we should not judge. We should discern without judgement but I think you are blinded by the hurt you felt from this group of people.
Oh we absolutely should judge those in the church in open sin like that.

For what [is it] to me to judge those outside [the church]? Should you not judge those inside [the church]? 1 Corinthians 5:12
 
Jul 27, 2011
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Question for HRFTD. Is your native tongue english? If not. What is 7th day of week called in your language?
 

prove-all

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May 16, 2014
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If it's a matter of preference or individual conviction, then there's no issue whatsoever. Romans 14 gives that liberality.

Romans 14...

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
The subject here? Vegetarianism

Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth
not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only,
don’t let this puff you up…

2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some
that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing
themselves among themselves, are not wise.

What is the gold standard here?

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us,
leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth
or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Now to the meat and potatoes…

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike.
Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day,
to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks;
and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee,
that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

From Bullingers Companion Bible…

Luke 18:12

twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7).
By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts.

In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost;
and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.

Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.

Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord:
whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both
of the dead and living.

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?
for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather,
that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself:
but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably.
Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.


Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered
to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.
1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

Shambles…

G3111
µa´?e????
makellon

Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549

There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this.
They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the
idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness,
and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Meat here is…

G1035
ß???s??
bro¯sis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively);
by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.

Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.

G4213
p?´s??
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.

Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism
and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character.
He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…

Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility,
and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace,
and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure;
but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…

G1033
ß???µa
bro¯ma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111

Again, we are dealing with food.

Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby
thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink)
that makes a weak brother stumble.

Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God.
Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith:
for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats.
The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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Human feces are clean to eat. So are humans.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean Rom 14:14

Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. Rom 14:20

Why would Paul state foods that always were clean to Jews were clean.
Makes no sense, such a statement would be needless. Twice he states All food is clean. Meat is food as well as veg and everything else.
ALL food is clean
 
W

weakness

Guest
In post 282 on the other thread you wrote:

I Don't know why God took Elijah and no one else. However I do find it interesting that Elijah was one of those who came to Jesus to help Him before He died on the cross. Maybe that was the reason I don't know. I don't think though that it was because he was better than others


tHEN IN POST 298 you wrote:

Like yesterday you said I did not agree with my own Churches teaching but I do it was you who got something wrong on what I believe.

today you think I did not believe that only a few went to heaven while the rest await the resurrection but I have believe that for a long time.

In 269 you wrote:
Christ is the first fruits from the dead as the scripture says, but He is not the first to actually rise from the dead as Moses and numerous others Old and new testament have been raised. however most of them saw death again. Except Elijah and Moses.
[/QUOTE[ Enoch didn't die ,was not found for God took him.