I live in Colorado Springs and in the past month or so we've had two instances of someone with a mental imbalance shooting random people with an assault rifle. Yesterday one police officer and two civilians were killed; several officers and other civilians were also shot and sent to the hospital. Not too long ago, someone shot and killed over 20 people at a movie theater in Denver. These events along with events like what happened in Paris convinced me that it was time to purchase a firearm to protect my family if I was ever put in a situation similar to the unfortunate but seemingly regular occurrences we've been seeing in the news. I've heard differing opinions on this subject and would like to hear what people here have to say.
Can a Christian use violence to defend themselves or others?
- Thread starter Gary
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♫ I see a bad moon rising... ♫
I only kid because this has come up in the BDF and has been quite the maelstrom of opinion. I neither promote nor decry prayer in lieu of action, but would personally opt for action in a moment that threatened mine or others' well being (then pray - for the assailant, that is
).
I only kid because this has come up in the BDF and has been quite the maelstrom of opinion. I neither promote nor decry prayer in lieu of action, but would personally opt for action in a moment that threatened mine or others' well being (then pray - for the assailant, that is
).
I agree 100% with Gary: self-defense is very much a singles issue.
I'm on the smaller side and for some reason, I've had times in my life where guys seemed to think it was ok to physically pick me up or approach me in ways that made me uneasy.
I appreciate a man who is willing to protect his woman, his loved ones, and his family with whatever means are necessary.
Back in my hometown, a drug addict tried to rob the local Walgreens late one night and was firing shots to prove that he meant business. One of the employees managed to get to his own gun, fire off a warning shot, and help turn the situation around.
This employee was later fired for bringing his gun to work (while legal in the state, Walgreens stated that it was against its policy to allow employees to bring their guns to work.) As you can imagine, there was a massive protest, especially when this employee was credited with saving the life of the manager, who had a wife and two small children, and he was able to get his job back.
I have been in altercations where I have kicked or slapped someone in my own defense (and I wasn't at the bar--I was in my own home or at work), and I don't believe God would tell me not to defend myself.
I would definitely be interested in taking lessons in self-defense and the use of weapons someday--it's on my bucket list for the future.
I'm on the smaller side and for some reason, I've had times in my life where guys seemed to think it was ok to physically pick me up or approach me in ways that made me uneasy.
I appreciate a man who is willing to protect his woman, his loved ones, and his family with whatever means are necessary.
Back in my hometown, a drug addict tried to rob the local Walgreens late one night and was firing shots to prove that he meant business. One of the employees managed to get to his own gun, fire off a warning shot, and help turn the situation around.
This employee was later fired for bringing his gun to work (while legal in the state, Walgreens stated that it was against its policy to allow employees to bring their guns to work.) As you can imagine, there was a massive protest, especially when this employee was credited with saving the life of the manager, who had a wife and two small children, and he was able to get his job back.
I have been in altercations where I have kicked or slapped someone in my own defense (and I wasn't at the bar--I was in my own home or at work), and I don't believe God would tell me not to defend myself.
I would definitely be interested in taking lessons in self-defense and the use of weapons someday--it's on my bucket list for the future.
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Knowing that you are a former military man (although your position wouldn't have had you in front lines combat) I'm kind of surprised you are asking this question.
I have two verses to point you to that clearly (IMO) allow for violence or even the taking of a life in the defense of innocents.
Exodus 22:2 NIV
If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;
Luke 22:36 NIV
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
I don't see where Christ's logic could have been that they buy a sword but not be ready to use it.
When push comes to shove, there are likewise verses that could be construed (incorrectly IMO) to prohibit self defense.
I really think that it comes down to personal conviction. For those who are convinced that it would be a sin for them to physically harm another human being and to them I would say that for them it is a sin until such time that their conviction is changed. Romans 14 speaks clearly to the subject of violating ones own convictions.
I have two verses to point you to that clearly (IMO) allow for violence or even the taking of a life in the defense of innocents.
Exodus 22:2 NIV
If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;
Luke 22:36 NIV
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
I don't see where Christ's logic could have been that they buy a sword but not be ready to use it.
When push comes to shove, there are likewise verses that could be construed (incorrectly IMO) to prohibit self defense.
I really think that it comes down to personal conviction. For those who are convinced that it would be a sin for them to physically harm another human being and to them I would say that for them it is a sin until such time that their conviction is changed. Romans 14 speaks clearly to the subject of violating ones own convictions.
I know that many Christians say we are not to use violence to defend ourselves. I like the Scriptures Oncefallen pointed out, as I was thinking of the second one he listed as well.
I always think of a woman going out on a date. What if it became a potential date rape situation? Is the woman allowed to use violence to defend herself if necessary, or does she simply do nothing and allow the attack to take place?
Some Christians seem to think that it's God's will for her to play dead and be victimized. If we allow people to know that this is our philosophy, no Christian (as it can happen to guys and girls nowadays) is ever safe going out on a date. (It would be like letting thieves know a store safe ia available 24/7 without protection.)
I, for one, would hopefully be a fighter all the way, and to the any extent necessary to prevent an attack.
I always think of a woman going out on a date. What if it became a potential date rape situation? Is the woman allowed to use violence to defend herself if necessary, or does she simply do nothing and allow the attack to take place?
Some Christians seem to think that it's God's will for her to play dead and be victimized. If we allow people to know that this is our philosophy, no Christian (as it can happen to guys and girls nowadays) is ever safe going out on a date. (It would be like letting thieves know a store safe ia available 24/7 without protection.)
I, for one, would hopefully be a fighter all the way, and to the any extent necessary to prevent an attack.
He, he. Most people (92%) are right-handed, and would wear their sword on the left. Malcus' RIGHT ear was cut off.
An offensive draw of the sword is one fluid motion.... the draw, combined with a sweeping slice across the swordsman's body, from his left (Malcus' right), toward the right side of Malcus' neck.
Only Malcus' right ear was cut off when he probably jerked his head away from the oncoming blow from his right.
What do you think Peter was REALLY intending to sever?
An offensive draw of the sword is one fluid motion.... the draw, combined with a sweeping slice across the swordsman's body, from his left (Malcus' right), toward the right side of Malcus' neck.
Only Malcus' right ear was cut off when he probably jerked his head away from the oncoming blow from his right.
What do you think Peter was REALLY intending to sever?
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I would agree with you to a certain degree. Both legally and morally someone is only justified to use what force is required to stop an attack against themselves or in defense of another and in many cases less than lethal force is required. Where we may differ is that I wholeheartedly believe that when lethal force is required to stop an attack, I am morally free to do so.
Fortunately only once in my life have I been in a situation where I thought I may need to engage lethal force, and never have had to make that final decision and honestly hope I never have to however, if that time ever comes I will do whatever is necessary to defend myself and mine.
Fortunately only once in my life have I been in a situation where I thought I may need to engage lethal force, and never have had to make that final decision and honestly hope I never have to however, if that time ever comes I will do whatever is necessary to defend myself and mine.
The other thing I think about when I read arguments that Christians are not allowed to defend themselves ("Turn the other cheek!") is that I always wonder, if this is going to be the rule we should follow, how far and to what age does this extend?
* What if your child is walking home from school and someone drives by and tries to toss him or her into their vehicle and drive off?
* What if someone approaches your child in an inappropriate manner, whether a teacher, student, friend, neighbor, etc?
What will you teach your child to do? React passively and allow themselves to be kidnapped or a victim of abuse?
I know I for one would teach my child what my parents taught me: SCREAM, RUN, HIT, BITE, KICK, CLAW them with your nails if you have to, use anything you can as a weapon, and ANY MEANS NECESSARY to get yourself out of that situation and find help.
If a Christian adheres to the "turn the other cheek" philosophy 100%, they will be required to teach their child to do nothing. And if they DO teach their children to fight back and defend themselves, at what age will you then tell them that they have to start passively turning the other cheek?
Where would the dividing line be when we would then say, "Ok, now when someone tries to harm you or molest you or kidnap you, you have to turn the other cheek and just let it happen because Jesus doesn't believe in using violence to defend yourself"?
I honestly believe that God would endorse common sense... and I would hope that self-defense in such situations would be a no-brainer.
* What if your child is walking home from school and someone drives by and tries to toss him or her into their vehicle and drive off?
* What if someone approaches your child in an inappropriate manner, whether a teacher, student, friend, neighbor, etc?
What will you teach your child to do? React passively and allow themselves to be kidnapped or a victim of abuse?
I know I for one would teach my child what my parents taught me: SCREAM, RUN, HIT, BITE, KICK, CLAW them with your nails if you have to, use anything you can as a weapon, and ANY MEANS NECESSARY to get yourself out of that situation and find help.
If a Christian adheres to the "turn the other cheek" philosophy 100%, they will be required to teach their child to do nothing. And if they DO teach their children to fight back and defend themselves, at what age will you then tell them that they have to start passively turning the other cheek?
Where would the dividing line be when we would then say, "Ok, now when someone tries to harm you or molest you or kidnap you, you have to turn the other cheek and just let it happen because Jesus doesn't believe in using violence to defend yourself"?
I honestly believe that God would endorse common sense... and I would hope that self-defense in such situations would be a no-brainer.
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