Hyper grace

[Budman]

How many sins have been paid for - a handful, a thousand, a million?

If but one sin will damn a person who is not saved, all sin must be covered by the blood of Jesus for the redeemed. If one has changed their mind, and no longer believes they can, in any way, earn their salvation, and instead, places their faith in Jesus alone - they are saved. And no amount of sinning afterward can condemn them. There is no condemnation left for them.

God will chastise them - even to the point of taking them home - but they can never be damned.

 

[Grace777x70]

Exactly!!!

That's what walking in the spirit of no condemnation produces.

 

[james57]

Could be, the penalty of sin brings great fear of sin, and fear of sin brings much allurement to sin

If I said to you
If you think of a pink rabbit God will cast you into hell, what is the first thought that would come into your head if you believe me?

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree 100%! The fruit of the thief changing his mind is in calling on the Lord. I was making the point that the thief did not show in outward behavior what we would normally call fruit of our repentance.

We are saying the same thing!

I beg to differ.

Therefore through him let us offer up a sacrifice of praise continually to God, that is, the fruit of lips that confess his name. Hebrews 13:15

And [the thief] said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when you comest into your kingdom. Luke 23:42

If you confess with your mouth “Jesus [is] Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. Romans 10:9-10​

 

[Grace777x70]

I saw the pink rabbit!

Could be, the penalty of sin brings great fear of sin, and fear of sin brings much allurement to sin

If I said to you
If you think of a pink rabbit God will cast you into hell, what is the first thought that would come into your head if you believe me?

 

[james57]

I'm sorry as I don't know what HG teaching is. I embrace how the Holy Spirit reveals Christ to us!!! In His revealing of Jesus I see myself in Him and the by-product of that is that I am transformed. It's beautiful!

There are 2 aspects to grace.

1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you". It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.

2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace. Empowering grace enables you to be who the father sees you are in Christ now.


The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you." The grace of God speaks of better things!

Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!

Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.

You have gone to the heart of victory over sin here.

Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ releases the life of the empowering grace to transform us.
Back to rom6:14, one of the most understated verses in the entire bible imho.

But it isn't logical to the human mind, so most reject it

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Could be, the penalty of sin brings great fear of sin, and fear of sin brings much allurement to sin

If I said to you
If you think of a pink rabbit God will cast you into hell, what is the first thought that would come into your head if you believe me?

Let's see... omigosh I have to think what it is I can't do so I don't get in trouble. Let me imagine what a pink rabbit looks like so I'll know what not to do ... !!! ... derp!

 

[james57]

Let's see... omigosh I have to think what it is I can't do so I don't get in trouble. Let me imagine what a pink rabbit looks like so I'll know what not to do ... !!! ... derp!

Why do you think all manner of concupiscence was aroused in an ardent Pharisee by/ through the commandment
Thou shalt not covet?

 

[james57]

Let's see... omigosh I have to think what it is I can't do so I don't get in trouble. Let me imagine what a pink rabbit looks like so I'll know what not to do ... !!! ... derp!

Paul knew what he shouldn't do according to the commandment
Thou shalt not covet. He should not lust. He is in trouble if he does lust because then he is breaking one of the Ten Commandments

What was the result?

All manner of concupiscence was aroused in him

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I agree 100%! The fruit of the thief changing his mind is in calling on the Lord. I was making the point that the thief did not show in outward behavior what we would normally call fruit of our repentance.

We are saying the same thing!

I think sometimes we think too much about the other fruit instead of focusing on the fruit of faith (confessing Lord Jesus), that brings the witness of no condemnation, that (super)naturally produces the other fruit.

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree James that the human mind rejects the grace of God. It is foolishness to it and that mind is not even possible to understand the grace of God because it is spiritually appraised. It's all in the revelation of Jesus Christ and in His completed work!

I am endeavoring to glean from the Holy Spirit from what Paul said:

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP] [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

We need to have revelation of what "according to Christ" means. I pray for this in my life all the time.

You have gone to the heart of victory over sin here.

Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ releases the life of the empowering grace to transform us.
Back to rom6:14, one of the most understated verses in the entire bible imho.

But it isn't logical to the human mind, so most reject it

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I think sometimes we think too much about the other fruit instead of focusing on the fruit of faith (confessing Lord Jesus), that brings the witness of no condemnation, that (super)naturally produces the other fruit.

btw, multitudes get confessing Lord Jesus so wrong IMO. They think it means confessing him as their personal lord. That doesn't bring to me the witness of no condemnation. What does is confessing that Jesus is lord of Israel, the promised messiah, believing what GOD promised; and by virtue of his resurrection, lord of creation.

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree!

I love this scripture in Job 22:28.

" You will also decree a thing and it will be established for you and light will shine on your ways."

I think sometimes we think too much about the other fruit instead of focusing on the fruit of faith (confessing Lord Jesus), that brings the witness of no condemnation, that (super)naturally produces the other fruit.

 

[james57]

I agree James that the human mind rejects the grace of God. It is foolishness to it and that mind is not even possible to understand the grace of God because it is spiritually appraised. It's all in the revelation of Jesus Christ and in His completed work!

I am endeavoring to glean from the Holy Spirit from what Paul said:

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP] [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

We need to have revelation of what "according to Christ" means. I pray for this in my life all the time.

Your quote reminds me of Paul's words concerning philosophers and scholars( 1 cor ch1)

The greatest power and most rapid growth seen in the christian church was seen before the emergence of the scholar and theologian straight after the Apostles lived, not after.

Were these theologians and scholars looked to because they were mightily led of the holy spirit, or because they had great academic minds?

It is when we rely on the holy spirit and do not trust the academic mind to learn we understand more spiritual truth that matters

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Your quote reminds me of Paul's words concerning philosophers and scholars( 1 cor ch1)

The greatest power and most rapid growth seen in the christian church was seen before the emergence of the scholar and theologian straight after the Apostles lived, not after.

Were these theologians and scholars looked to because they were mightily led of the holy spirit, or because they had great academic minds?

It is when we rely on the holy spirit and do not trust the academic mind to learn we understand more spiritual truth that matters

The theologians and scholars were/are necessary. The reason for the diminishment of power is because those who knew Christ personally, died off. They were focused on building a living body, not communicating with those after them. It was no different than the knowledge of GOD diminishing as the years increased from the garden, and dramatically so after the flood, which was reflected in the decreased lifespans of men. But GOD is able to raise from the dead that which was lost, yet in even greater power.

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree!

I found it interesting that some of our modern day evangelical beliefs have actually originated from greek philosophy from Aristotle.

Your quote reminds me of Paul's words concerning philosophers and scholars( 1 cor ch1)

The greatest power and most rapid growth seen in the christian church was seen before the emergence of the scholar and theologian straight after the Apostles lived, not after.

Were these theologians and scholars looked to because they were mightily led of the holy spirit, or because they had great academic minds?

It is when we rely on the holy spirit and do not trust the academic mind to learn we understand more spiritual truth that matters

 

[james57]

The theologians and scholars were/are necessary. The reason for the diminishment of power is because those who knew Christ personally, died off. They were focused on building a living body, not communicating with those after them. It was no different than the knowledge of GOD diminishing as the years increased from the garden, and dramatically so after the flood, which was reflected in the decreased lifespans of men. But GOD is able to raise from the dead that which was lost, yet in even greater power.

Biblically speaking signs, wonders and miracles are an endorsement of the truth being preached ( john10:38, john 14:11, Acts14:3, rom15:16, heb2:2-4

So why do we see so little of the power they saw in the NT church?
Has God changed? That is not possible
Has the holy spirit changed who is Gods power on earth? That is not possible either
Has the message changed? The message cannot change
But has peoples perception of the message changed?

The power is in the truth of the message

 

[james57]

The theologians and scholars were/are necessary. The reason for the diminishment of power is because those who knew Christ personally, died off. They were focused on building a living body, not communicating with those after them. It was no different than the knowledge of GOD diminishing as the years increased from the garden, and dramatically so after the flood, which was reflected in the decreased lifespans of men. But GOD is able to raise from the dead that which was lost, yet in even greater power.

The most important message in scripture is the Gospel message of grace
Please tell me one thing these scholars and theologians brought to light that the holy spirit is unable to do for those trusting him to lead them into truth concerning the Gospel message of grace

I know scholars and theologians invented many doctrines apart from the most important of all. They don't appear to have helped people much, ever more dwindling church numbers are testimony to this

 

[ladylynn]

I love this scripture! I thank God for it! It shows His love for us!

The "chastening " as the word used in Kings James language means child training. It is the exact same word used in 2 Tim. 3:16 where it says The Word of God ...is for instruction in righteousness. Instruction is "chastening". Jesus said the words I speak to you are spirit and life. The Lord "chastens" us with His word to our spirits. ( be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live. )

We are the righteousness of God in Christ. We do not become righteous by doing righteous acts. We do righteous acts because we are righteous! When we are doing something that will bring destruction either to ourselves or others - the Lord send His Word to "correct" us.

Now, religion has taught us that God relates to us in the New Covenant the same way He did in the Old Covenant but this is not true. Massive confusion comes to us sincere believers when we mix up the covenants Jesus calls it a " New Covenant " for a good reason.

Sometimes certain words bring with it connotations. For me with my religious background the term " bringing me out to the woodshed" brings with it the wrong thoughts concerning how God deals with destructive behavior.

Religion says that God brought this sickness on you or your car broke down because you didn't tithe...or any other religious nonsense that is like that. It does not display the true nature of our God.

Forgive us for not explaining the "connotations" that come with certain phrases which can cause confusion.

Our Father is a good, good Father! We love Him and trust Him!

This is a clear and good Biblical answer to Crossnote's question Grace. I've been learning about what it means to be a believer under the new covenant of grace for over 3 year now. So much to unlearn because for years it was a matter of looking for the weaknesses and failures before going to God in prayer and constantly finding them and avoiding God in prayer!!! And although being saved I dragged guilt and condemnation around most every day.

But all that changed after finding out that God wants us to look away from self and look at Jesus, truth began to set me free from the law of sin and death. "To know we don't deserve His grace yet we receive it, we can't help but be transformed. And gratefulness and worship are the results." God didn't condemn or use guilt or fear to get my attention.,He revealed through His Word the truth of His abiding love.



The "chastening " as the word used in Kings James language means child training. It is the exact same word used in 2 Tim. 3:16 where it says The Word of God ...is for instruction in righteousness. Instruction is "chastening". Jesus said the words I speak to you are spirit and life. The Lord "chastens" us with His word to our spirits. ( be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live. )

We are the righteousness of God in Christ. We do not become righteous by doing righteous acts. We do righteous acts because we are righteous! When we are doing something that will bring destruction either to ourselves or others - the Lord send His Word to "correct" us.


Christians think it is wrong to use words like finding our identity knowing who we are. But it's a must to know who we are and where we belong? What makes us worthy and who loves us? To know we are loved by God in Christ and that it can never change. Unlike anything on this earth because everything that is on earth perishes. Even people we love even our families die and become part of yesterday. We have memories but not the substance. But in Jesus we have the substance at all times. Nothing can take that away from us IN Christ. This truth changes everything.

And the wonder of knowing He does not cause illness or death to His sheep under the new covenant., He does not use a stick to beat us up when we fail. I was always taught that God's vengeance had to be avoided and if not avoided, paid for. We were never taught that Jesus already paid with His death on the cross nailing our sins to that cross. Sin can never claim us again to be our identity. That is surely the Good News!!

There is so much more to learning about who we are in Christ. Our being 'the righteousness OF GOD IN CHRIST. When I first read that in the Bible and heard other Christians say those words.,the concept went against all I was taught for many years in church. How can WE be the righteousness of God??? IN CHRIST. WOW.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Biblically speaking signs, wonders and miracles are an endorsement of the truth being preached ( john10:38, john 14:11, Acts14:3, rom15:16, heb2:2-4

So why do we see so little of the power they saw in the NT church?
Has God changed? That is not possible
Has the holy spirit changed who is Gods power on earth? That is not possible either
Has the message changed? The message cannot change
But has peoples perception of the message changed?

The power is in the truth of the message

Did theologians and scholars cause the diminishment of the knowledge of GOD from Adam's fall to Abraham? Theologians and scholars are not evil of themselves. They have served a necessary and valuable service when the knowledge of GOD diminished due to the times. Theologians and scholars are responsible for the bible you read.

It is man's evil nature and his separation from the revelation of Christ himself that caused the diminishment of the power. Evil theologians and scholars have certainly amplified that.

You have the book; where is the power in your life? It's not as simple as you are trying to make it appear. GOD has his time and his purpose.