Hyper grace

[james57]

But this hasn't been accomplished yet. The high priest is still in the holy of holies making reconciliation for the sins of the people. Think day of atonement. Sin does not get removed from the congregation until it is placed on the scapegoat and sent away. That hasn't happened yet. We are yet dealing with sin.

Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself Heb9:25&26

For by one sacrifice he made forever perfect, all those who are being made holy Heb 10:14

Sin unto condemnation is done away with for the truly born again Christian. A Christian commits sin for none are perfect. But God sees the sacrifice his son made for you at calvary, not your imperfections. You have right standing with God solely through Christ's sacrifice for you

 

[Grace777x70]

How "bad" does one have to sin before God acts like us men?

Was Adam and Eve's sin bad enough? Apparently not because God was still coming to walk with them. That sounds like "fellowship" to me. It was Adam and Eve that hid themselves because sin corrupted their thinking about God. It was their own condemnation that "separated themselves" from God. This is true today too! This is why we need to believe that there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus! Condemnation causes us to hid from God but it is on our part - not His!

I'm telling you that our salvation is complete and absolutely awesome. Jesus did it all for us!

You're conflating fellowship with relationship. Sin bad enough against a friend and your fellowship with him will cease until things are made right, even though the relationship remains. No different with GOD.

 

[crossnote]

For by one sacrifice he made forever perfect, all those who are being made holy Heb 10:14

So you are perfect with no more work on you by God is needed?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Amen! He sat down because there is no more sacrifice needed for sin. Sin is a non-issue. Jesus took away all the sins of the world even all the sins you will commit in the future!

Do you know why God says " I will remember your sins no more?" It's because it is not there in His eyes. The blood of Jesus took it away. Why are we so slow to believe in the finished work of Jesus? The forgiveness of sins is a done deal!

Grace is the passing over the judgment due us because of sin. One day all sin will be taken away, but it hasn't been removed yet. The sacrifice for sin is a done deal, but we must abide in its forgiveness. Forgiveness is not a done deal as you are suggesting.

 

[james57]

So you are perfect with no more work on you by God is needed?

Oh dear, never mind

 

[Grace777x70]

Hebrews 1:3 (NASB)
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,


Sin is a done deal!

Hebrews 9:28 (NASB)
so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

But this hasn't been accomplished yet. The high priest is still in the holy of holies making reconciliation for the sins of the people. Think day of atonement. Sin does not get removed from the congregation until it is placed on the scapegoat and sent away. That hasn't happened yet. We are yet dealing with sin.

 

[crossnote]

Beautiful scripture! The word "chasten" means to child-train and God deals with us with His word to our spirit. This area has already been dealt with in this thread. If interested you can go back and read it. it'll bless you I'm sure.

We have a good, good Father!

The context overrides your strained definition. ..

Hebrews 12:4-11 (KJV)
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

 

[james57]

For by one sacrifice he made forever perfect, all those who are being made holy Heb 10:14

For those who find it hard to grasp the above. If the Christian is being made holy, they are not perfect in the flesh. If they were perfect in the flesh they would be perfectly holy. However, God sees the Christian as perfect forever in the Spiritual sense, for he sees Christ's sacrifice for them, not their imperfections

 

[Grace777x70]

so true!

Ephesians 5:26 (KJV)
[SUP] [/SUP] That he might sanctify and cleanse it ( us..the church ) with the washing of water by the word,

This is the exact same way that He 'chastens" us!

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father.

He is a good, good Father!

That's an important base, but there is also the process of sanctification, where God is actively cleansing and purging us.

 

[Grace777x70]

The end of the ages started after Jesus rose from the grave. The last days begun over 2,000 years ago.

But this hasn't been accomplished yet. The high priest is still in the holy of holies making reconciliation for the sins of the people. Think day of atonement. Sin does not get removed from the congregation until it is placed on the scapegoat and sent away. That hasn't happened yet. We are yet dealing with sin.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

How "bad" does one have to sin before God acts like us men?

Was Adam and Eve's sin bad enough? Apparently not because God was still coming to walk with them. That sounds like "fellowship" to me. It was Adam and Eve that hid themselves because sin corrupted their thinking about God. It was their own condemnation that "separated themselves" from God. This is true today too! This is why we need to believe that there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus! Condemnation causes us to hid from God but it is on our part - not His!

I'm telling you that our salvation is complete and absolutely awesome. Jesus did it all for us!

When Adam and Eve sin God kicked them out of his presence. The relationship didn't end, but their fellowship certainly did. They then had to live by faith separated from GOD's presence.

I agree that there is now no condemnation, but you take that to an extreme by saying that believers can't sin and no forgiveness is required.

 

[crossnote]

Oh dear, never mind

Well that's essentially what the hyper grace movement is teaching...you are perfect and any imperfection is due to the fact that you haven't grasped the fact you are perfect...Sounds new ageish to me.

 

[Grace777x70]

I can tell that you did not go back and read what was said about this scripture as suggested. We agree with this scripture 100% and it is a beautiful one that displays the love and grace of God towards us... but I think where we may differ is in HOW the chastisement is given or what it looks like in the New Covenant.

The context overrides your strained definition. ..

Hebrews 12:4-11 (KJV)
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

 

[james57]

Hebrews 1:3 (NASB)
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,


Sin is a done deal!

Hebrews 9:28 (NASB)
so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

I'm beginning to wonder if some in this thread believe purgatory will be needed if someone sins, but before they can seek forgiveness gets run over by a bus and dies.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The end of the ages started after Jesus rose from the grave. The last days begun over 2,000 years ago.

But that means absolutely nothing regarding the high priest still being in the holy of holies. The day of atonement is being fulfilled before our eyes. When the high priest emerges from there, that will be its complete fulfillment.

 

[crossnote]

so true!

Ephesians 5:26 (KJV)
That he might sanctify and cleanse it ( us..the church ) with the washing of water by the word,

This is the exact same way that He 'chastens" us!

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father.

He is a good, good Father!

Is this gain without pain? Or is it too painful to confess our sins to God when He directly deals us chastisements and corrections?

 

[Grace777x70]

God sees the inner man that has been created in righteousness and holiness. We are completely 100% as righteous as God is and we are 100% as holy as God is...that is in our inner self/man/woman/person.

Doing righteous or holy things does not make us righteous or holy. Jesus made us righteous and holy. We are complete in Him!

The living out in our flesh here on this earth is a manifestation of who we really are in Christ.

Ephesians 4:24 (KJV)
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

For those who find it hard to grasp the above. If the Christian is being made holy, they are not perfect in the flesh. If they were perfect in the flesh they would be perfectly holy. However, God sees the Christian as perfect forever in the Spiritual sense, for he sees Christ's sacrifice for them, not their imperfections

 

[Grace777x70]

The answer to your question below my beloved sister is within yourself.

Is this gain without pain? Or is it too painful to confess our sins to God when He directly deals us chastisements and corrections?

 

[james57]

But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[SUP][d][/SUP] because of righteousness Rom8:10

And the flesh ain't goin to Heaven (1Cor15:50)

 

[crossnote]

I can tell that you did not go back and read what was said about this scripture as suggested. We agree with this scripture 100% and it is a beautiful one that displays the love and grace of God towards us... but I think where we may differ is in HOW the chastisement is given or what it looks like in the New Covenant.

a
I'm sure it differs with each person and that is a problem with telling others God doesn't harshly rebuke or deal with his children. In my case He has, maybe Prince has had it easy...who knows.