Hyper grace

[Stephen63]

So you have taken this sensible interpretation and turned it on its head to mean that it is impossible for those who are born of GOD to sin, simply due to a careless reading of what is written. This is how false doctrines are born.

Indeed!
Ever notice what else is 'missing' from those who believe this stuff? The fear of the Lord. Instead of Lordship, it's more ''Jesus is my buddy''

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

We deal with sin as believers when we believe in the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ. We believe His grace that we are under means that sin shall NOT have dominion over us - Rom 6:14

I believe that God is not an evangelical obsessed with a sin-consciousness. He is Christ-conscious. He is 100% obsessed with Christ..in His Son and what He did for us! Sin is not an issue anymore. It has been dealt with by the Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ!!

Being Christ conscious doesn't preclude being aware of and acknowledging sin. I sense a false characterization going on.

 

[james57]

Trust me. I have the authority in Christ to tell you that the holy spirit is the law.

I trust what is written, not people telling me they have the authority to overturn it.

I assume in future- for consistency you will no longer wish to refer to the greek for what you believe I the exact letter. For here you are ignoring the letter of what is written concerning one of the two core components of the new covenant.
I repeat, I take no notice of people on the internet who believe they have the authority to overturn what is plainly written in scripture. Sounds to me like pride and ego I am afraid

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Sin is not an issue anymore?
So we now live in glory unhampered by our old nature? Gotcha

Again...

Galatians 5:17 KJVS
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

I'll remember, it's just smooth sailing from here on.

Just remember to click your red crystal shoes together and repeat after me...

 

[Grace777x70]

Again we have already discussed our opinions on 1 John 3:9 at least 3 times now.

To me sin is sin whether you do it once or do in continuously . There is no bad sin nor good sin because sin is ..well sin..lol

The scripture in discussion along with the other ones we quoted says the one born of God ( the inner man, hidden man of the heart....spirit of man...etc ) cannot sin....so whether it's once or continuously is irrelevant.

We are free to believe whatever we want on this issue..as our brother/sister NarrowRoadDiscple pointed out that John seems to be double-minded here.....we are not going to lose our "sheepness" over this.. We will still be sheep! Isn't it wonderful?

I'm surprised with your willingness to look at the Greek, that you are not more careful with this interpretation. That verse simply states that those born of GOD are not doing sin, and they aren't able to be sinning (not that it is impossible for them to sin) because the spirit (seed) in them won't allow it.

Everyone born of God is not doing sin, for his seed remains in him and he is not able to be sinning, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9​

But let's take it a step further and provide the context of the next verse that clearly shows that those who are born of GOD practice righteousness, and those of the devil don't.

By this the children of God and the children of the devil are evident: everyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, neither is the one who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:10​

The corollary to this is that those who do practice righteousness (those not doing sin in verse 9) are born of GOD.

So you have taken this sensible interpretation and turned it on its head to mean that it is impossible for those who are born of GOD to sin, simply due to a careless reading of what is written. This is how false doctrines are born.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

When Paul speaks of not being under the law he is referring to a law of righteousness.
You have just written that a careless reading of scripture brings wrong doctrines. You are also insistent on looking to the Greek so you hinge everything on what you consider the exact letter. Yet now you are plainly ignoring the exact letter of what is written and being careless with scripture.
As you say, that leads to wrong doctrines.
You admitted a while ago you believed the heart of the law remained, the legalistic law had gone. You told me you saw that the way I do

The law of Moses is the law of righteousness.

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness [i.e., law of Moses], has not attained to [that required by] the law of righteousness. Romans 9:31​

I think we're on the same page for the most part, but this thing about the law of righteousness doesn't make sense. It's just another way to describe the law of Moses.

 

[Grace777x70]

I love the fear of the Lord! Jesus said the fear of the Lord was to worship God. I am in awe of the majesty and beauty of our Lord Jesus Christ. I am in awe of what He has done for us - how He has set us free from sin with the riches of His grace!

Indeed!
Ever notice what else is 'missing' from those who believe this stuff? The fear of the Lord. Instead of Lordship, it's more ''Jesus is my buddy''

 

[james57]

I trust what is written, not people telling me they have the authority to overturn it.

I assume in future- for consistency you will no longer wish to refer to the greek for what you believe I the exact letter. For here you are ignoring the letter of what is written concerning one of the two core components of the new covenant.
I repeat, I take no notice of people on the internet who believe they have the authority to overturn what is plainly written in scripture. Sounds to me like pride and ego I am afraid

The law of Moses is the law of righteousness.

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness [i.e., law of Moses], has not attained to [that required by] the law of righteousness. Romans 9:31​

I think we're on the same page for the most part, but this thing about the law of righteousness doesn't make sense. It's just another way to describe the law of Moses.

It is quite simple.

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for them that believeth.

As you previously agreed with mw, the legalistic law has gone for the christian the heart of the law remains. But you are not under a law of righteousness concerning it for Christ is your righteousness

 

[crossnote]

I'll agree we aren't able nor expected to confess every sin for we would be forever confessing our sin. All sin has been covered BUT the Holy Spirit puts His finger on certain ones including wrong attitudes etc., and those we definitely should come clean before God.

 

[Grace777x70]

I am not saying that we aren't aware of sin and ignore it. Simply look at sin through the finished work of our Lord! Sin is NOT an issue anymore. Sin has been dealt with on the cross by Jesus! I am saying it's better to keep our eyes on Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. If we lived with the understanding that we are under grace ..sin would not be a problem for us Christians.

We are free to make sin the center of our Christian life if we want but I choose to focus in on Christ and what He has already done for us and to thank Him for His awesome salvation! ( not saying that you don't but just stating what I do. )

Being Christ conscious doesn't preclude being aware of and acknowledging sin. I sense a false characterization going on.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen..it's a good healthy thing to change our thoughts to our outward behavior! It's the Spirit of God that changes us as outlined in 2 Cor 3:18

I'll agree we aren't able nor expected to confess every sin for we would be forever confessing our sin. All sin has been covered BUT the Holy Spirit puts His finger on certain ones including wrong attitudes etc., and those we definitely should come clean before God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I'll agree we aren't able nor expected to confess every sin for we would be forever confessing our sin. All sin has been covered BUT the Holy Spirit puts His finger on certain ones including wrong attitudes etc., and those we definitely should come clean before God.

I think GOD is more concerned about getting to the root of sin than he is about identifying each manifestation of rebellion.

 

[james57]

Indeed!
Ever notice what else is 'missing' from those who believe this stuff? The fear of the Lord. Instead of Lordship, it's more ''Jesus is my buddy''

I had the fear of the Lord when I was young. I feared that if I wasn't perfectly sinless I was in danger of the fires of hell.
If I even had a fleeting impure thought as a young teenager, my stomach churned over as I was gripped with panic and fear I was in danger of being cast into hell. Have you had fear such as that?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is quite simple.

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for them that believeth.

As you previously agreed with mw, the legalistic law has gone for the christian the heart of the law remains. But you are not under a law of righteousness concerning it for Christ is your righteousness

The heart of the law is the holy spirit.

But when he—the Spirit of truth—comes, he will guide you into all the truth. For he will not speak from himself, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will proclaim to you the things to come. He will glorify me, because he will take from what [is] mine and will proclaim [it] to you. John 16:13-14​

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree...It almost seems like it would be better to die right after we receive Christ in order for us not to have sinned and not know it. The whole idea for the believer needs to be continuously confessing sins in order to get forgiven after we come to Christ is so flawed that it borders on ignorance gone to seed. I know we were religiously taught that all our lives but there is no scripture for this. We have the bar of soap in 1 John 1:9 but some thinks it refers to the gnostics that say..we have no sin and we don't need a Savior.. In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses let everything be established! Why not believe in the finished work of Christ?

The sad thing is there will still be those that will say..Look this hyper-grace guy thinks you can sin all you want.

I'll agree we aren't able nor expected to confess every sin for we would be forever confessing our sin. All sin has been covered BUT the Holy Spirit puts His finger on certain ones including wrong attitudes etc., and those we definitely should come clean before God.

 

[Grace777x70]

That was the false fear of the Lord.

I had the fear of the Lord when I was young. I feared that if I wasn't perfectly sinless I was in danger of the fires of hell.
If I even had a fleeting impure thought as a young teenager, my stomach churned over as I was gripped with panic and fear I was in danger of being cast into hell. Have you had fear such as that?

 

[Stephen63]

We are free to believe whatever we want on this issue..as our brother/sister NarrowRoadDiscple pointed out that John seems to be double-minded here.....we are not going to lose our "sheepness" over this.. We will still be sheep! Isn't it wonderful?

I guess that depends on how you define "sheepness"

I wonder if these guys lost theirs?

Or these? It seems to me these guys are about to.

"we are not going to lose our "sheepness" over this."
When I read this, I immediately thought of this: Genesis 3:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen! all sin is rooted in unbelief. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

That's why it we are to believe on the One who God sent...Jesus. I tell you..it's a finished work our Lord did..we don't need to add anything to it. Let's put our trust in Him and what He has done in His great work for us!

I think GOD is more concerned about getting to the root of sin than he is about identifying each manifestation of rebellion.

 

[james57]

The heart of the law is the holy spirit.

But when he—the Spirit of truth—comes, he will guide you into all the truth. For he will not speak from himself, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will proclaim to you the things to come. He will glorify me, because he will take from what [is] mine and will proclaim [it] to you. John 16:13-14​

It is quite simple. You are refusing to follow what is plainly written to formulate an opinion based on your own personal ideas. Which is very surprising as you insist at other times to study the letter of what is written to gain truth.

the biblical references concerning the new covenant in this regard state:

I will write my laws in their minds
And place them on their hearts

You believe you have the authority to overturn that. I do not believe you do
Obviously one of us is being led into truth concerning this and one is not

 

[james57]

The heart of the law is the holy spirit.

But when he—the Spirit of truth—comes, he will guide you into all the truth. For he will not speak from himself, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will proclaim to you the things to come. He will glorify me, because he will take from what [is] mine and will proclaim [it] to you. John 16:13-14​

Scripture please that states the heart of the law is the holy spirit. Feel free to go to the Greek if need be

Why you have quoted what you have above from john to try and prove your belief correct I cannot fathom