Hyper grace

[Grace777x70]

ROTF..that is hilarious!..so you are saying that a sheep can change into another animal...that is hilarious!

The Lord is my shepherd...no wait..I changed from being a sheep to another animal...this is absolutely hilarious. ..the absurdity of this is ignorance gone to seed IMO...but the pictures are funny..Thanks for them!

"And the serpent said to the New Testament believer in Christ Ye shall surely not be a sheep as the Lord your God said - you shall really be a wolf!"

I guess that depends on how you define "sheepness"

I wonder if these guys lost theirs?

Or these? It seems to me these guys are about to.

"we are not going to lose our "sheepness" over this."
When I read this, I immediately thought of this: Genesis 3:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

 

[ladylynn]

That's an important base, but there is also the process of sanctification, where God is actively cleansing and purging us.

There is a verse that tells us that Jesus is our sanctification. I have not changed my mind on everything I ever learned when I was a Bible Baptist. As I shared many times, that country church with it's many legalistic brethren was the place that our family got a sure foundation because they taught about Jesus and how He paid for our sins on the cross. Eph.2:8-9 was my salvation verse. Coming from an Irish Catholic family., that verse was a shock..".For by grace are you saved through faith., and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God not of works lest any man should boast...." Gift of God....not of works......so much so that no one can boast.

And so we were also always taught that sanctification is a process. I'm more of the mind now that we have all these things already and it's a matter of taking a hold by faith those things that have been freely given to us. We have this treasure in earthen vessels... 'work our your own salvation with fear and trembling... which basically means to take this walk seriously. We don't work for our salvation we work it from the inside out the life of Jesus. We work out what has been put in us.,
He is our righteousness, our redemption, our sanctification., our salvation.,And so many other things that go with those things and more.

God has not given us the spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind. All these things I'm thinking we work out of us by faith. We have already been purged from sin. We are already cleansed. Now we walk it out.

I think it's a lot like how we look at the spiritual battle we are in. The fact is we fight from a place of victory because of Jesus. The big mistake we Christians make is allowing satan to trick us into believing we are not the righteousness of God in Christ. It is then he gets us to look at ourselves in the flesh and not Jesus. Then we are trying to win a battle that has already been won, and we lose the battle every time because we can do nothing without Him. Isn't it interesting how God wants us to depend on Him for everything. That it pleases Him when we depend on Him and go to Him for all things in our life.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I agree...It almost seems like it would be better to die right after we receive Christ in order for us not to have sinned and not know it. The whole idea for the believer needs to be continuously confessing sins in order to get forgiven after we come to Christ is so flawed that it borders on ignorance gone to seed. I know we were religiously taught that all our lives but there is no scripture for this. We have the bar of soap in 1 John 1:9 but some thinks it refers to the gnostics that say..we have no sin and we don't need a Savior.. In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses let everything be established! Why not believe in the finished work of Christ?

The sad thing is there will still be those that will say..Look this hyper-grace guy thinks you can sin all you want.

I was never taught that, nor have I ever believed it. Even though I read many true things in what you say, I think you're overreacting to that teaching.

 

[crossnote]

I think GOD is more concerned about getting to the root of sin than he is about identifying each manifestation of rebellion.

Oh I agree, I'm just addressing the 'avoid confessing our sin' issue.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Scripture please that states the heart of the law is the holy spirit. Feel free to go to the Greek if need be

Why you have quoted what you have above from john to try and prove your belief correct I cannot fathom

I quoted that because the holy spirit is the lawgiver. It takes from the heart of GOD and reveals to us his will, which is his law.

 

[Grace777x70]

I love the verse after Phil 2:12-13 where it says work out your salvation with fear and trembling ..BECAUSE it is God who is at work in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

It is the very nature of God that is in our inner man that we need to allow God to work out of us. We are simply working out in our body and outer world around us what is "already" inside us. It's wonderful!

"The big mistake we Christians make is allowing satan to trick us into believing we are not the righteousness of God in Christ."

Well said!!!!

There is a verse that tells us that Jesus is our sanctification. I have not changed my mind on everything I ever learned when I was a Bible Baptist. As I shared many times, that country church with it's many legalistic brethren was the place that our family got a sure foundation because they taught about Jesus and how He paid for our sins on the cross. Eph.2:8-9 was my salvation verse. Coming from an Irish Catholic family., that verse was a shock..".For by grace are you saved through faith., and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God not of works lest any man should boast...." Gift of God....not of works......so much so that no one can boast.

And so we were also always taught that sanctification is a process. I'm more of the mind now that we have all these things already and it's a matter of taking a hold by faith those things that have been freely given to us. We have this treasure in earthen vessels... 'work our your own salvation with fear and trembling... which basically means to take this walk seriously. We don't work for our salvation we work it from the inside out the life of Jesus. We work out what has been put in us.,
He is our righteousness, our redemption, our sanctification., our salvation.,And so many other things that go with those things and more.

God has not given us the spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind. All these things I'm thinking we work out of us by faith. We have already been purged from sin. We are already cleansed. Now we walk it out.

I think it's a lot like how we look at the spiritual battle we are in. The fact is we fight from a place of victory because of Jesus. The big mistake we Christians make is allowing satan to trick us into believing we are not the righteousness of God in Christ. It is then he gets us to look at ourselves in the flesh and not Jesus. Then we are trying to win a battle that has already been won, and we lose the battle every time because we can do nothing without Him. Isn't it interesting how God wants us to depend on Him for everything. That it pleases Him when we depend on Him and go to Him for all things in our life.

 

[james57]

I quoted that because the holy spirit is the lawgiver. It takes from the heart of GOD and reveals to us his will, which is his law.

The holy spirit writes the law on our minds and places it on our hearts God desires us to keep.

How did you say again we come to wrong doctrines?

 

[james57]

I'm surprised with your willingness to look at the Greek, that you are not more careful with this interpretation. That verse simply states that those born of GOD are not doing sin, and they aren't able to be sinning (not that it is impossible for them to sin) because the spirit (seed) in them won't allow it.

Everyone born of God is not doing sin, for his seed remains in him and he is not able to be sinning, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9​

But let's take it a step further and provide the context of the next verse that clearly shows that those who are born of GOD practice righteousness, and those of the devil don't.

By this the children of God and the children of the devil are evident: everyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, neither is the one who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:10​

The corollary to this is that those who do practice righteousness (those not doing sin in verse 9) are born of GOD.

So you have taken this sensible interpretation and turned it on its head to mean that it is impossible for those who are born of GOD to sin, simply due to a careless reading of what is written. This is how false doctrines are born.

Here it is. If we ignore a sensible interpretation of what is written we come to wrong doctrines.
The core terms of the new covenant are plainly written. It wouldn't be sensible to refuse to accept it

 

[Grace777x70]

That could be true..I could be over reacting to that teaching.. we tend to be opposed to whatever we felt held us in bondage because of our religious upbringing. I have no problem if believers want to use 1 John 1:9 as a bar of soap for themselves. It would be a sin for me to use it in that way as I would not have the faith for that.

I was never taught that, nor have I ever believed it. Even though I read many true things in what you say, I think you're overreacting to that teaching.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The holy spirit writes the law on our minds and places it on our hearts God desires us to keep.

How did you say again we come to wrong doctrines?

Do you take everything so literally? Writing GOD's law on our hearts is figurative language for the voice of the holy spirit.

 

[ladylynn]

I for one repent constantly as I am always changing my mind when the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus to me. I am in a constant phase of having my mind renewed! I love it! It brings life and peace and joy.

If I sin towards a person I definitely ask them for forgiveness. It's a healthy thing!

If I sin I confess to the Lord that Jesus' blood washed all my sins away! I thank Him that I am still the righteousness of God in Christ. I acknowledge that my behavior was wrong and it is not the real person that I am in Christ.

I then accept the no condemnation that is ours in Christ and choose to walk in the Spirit again. All sin is a failure to recognize the life of Christ in us and to live not fully dependent on Christ.

Just some quick thoughts on the subject.

EXACTLY!!!! It was a happy joyful day when I did that for the first time in 2015!! Although I was saved around 1982. Thanking Him that I am still the righteousness of God IN Christ even when I failed ... that my identity is hid in Him. Sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. That is again taking the gift of NO CONDEMNATION and walking it out. There is therefore NOW NO condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. And then believing that is the very thing that God wants us to do is depend on Jesus to BE our righteousness., our salvation., our sanctification and our all in all. It always goes back to Jesus.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That could be true..I could be over reacting to that teaching.. we tend to be opposed to whatever we felt held us in bondage because of our religious upbringing. I have no problem if believers want to use 1 John 1:9 as a bar of soap for themselves. It would be a sin for me to use it in that way as I would not have the faith for that.

From everything I've read, your faith sounds solid and genuine, and you are perceptive to know that Christ is the center of our focus, and not sin. I will trust GOD to make the pendulum swing back the other way if you are overreacting.

 

[PeterJens]

I am a sheep already!

I like your desire to deal with the battle to understand our bodies and the functions of the mind walking in the flesh, and the idea of walking in the Holy Spirit.

What I do not like is the proposal we are all schozophrenic, really being the new born spirit separate from the flesh.

This denies personal responsibility or ownership of ones own behaviour. It is starting the idea we are possessed and it is not us who walk in righteousness but this new life within.

A biblical view is both exist together but we can choose to walk as to our selfish rebellious nature or in love after the Holy Spirit. The difference is what we dwell in not that we are two parts.

Psychologists would call your strategy compartmentalisation because you cannot truly face your own behaviour.

The grace of God is tremendous, because though we are often conflicted He still listens to us and deals with us, and takes us on to transform our lives.

24 hours ago I did not think anyone had gone as far as you have expressed, but you have made it clear.
Yes I would call it a heresy, something that is akin to mental illness, not dealing with yourself as a complete whole and learning to love the sinner within, which is what Jesus does through the cross.

The bulk of the argument normally is can we attain perfection in this life or even know that meaning. I would hold we can attain perfection, but only God would know that we had, but walking in perfection is not about walking in perfection as if it like an award or point you arrive at and rest, it is about loving as Jesus loved.

The other problem with your concept is to appease the problem of inbuilt sinful behaviour in the newly born again christian.
How can perfection or salvation be linked with sin? It is and it is why it is a walk of transformation and transcending situations.

So again thankyou for confirming hyper grace is actually alive and kicking and needs to be addressed.

 

[james57]

Do you take everything so literally? Writing GOD's law on our hearts is figurative language for the voice of the holy spirit.

That is a strange thing for you to say after what you hinged 1 john 3:4 meaning on.

You have been given ample proof the law has been written on the mind and placed on the heart.
You simply choose to ignore it, and the evidence of the weight of scripture that proves it to be true
I would add, much scripture which aligns together concerning this subject.
Your opinion contradicts the scriptures and you say you have the authority to do so.
It is testimony to revelling in studying theology without relying on the holy spirits leading, for according to heb 10:15 it is the holy spirit who testifies to the law being written on the mind and placed on the heart of the christian

 

[ladylynn]

Oh, thanks Ladylynn! Good to be here. It's a good place to work out why we believe what we believe - and to change it if necessary. I hadn't so much as heard the expression "HyperGrace" until I saw it in the subject line.

I heard the term some years ago and then it comes up on CC frequently. I'm learning some good stuff on this thread kohelet., glad you are here to share your 'always' interesting and appreciated views.

 

[Grace777x70]

Well said!

It takes faith in the midst of recognizing our failure/sin and how horrible it is when we see it in the light of who we truly are inside our inner man in Christ..it takes faith to say..I am the righteousness of God in Christ! .. all the while the accuser is telling us you are no good..you have failed again..the enemy comes with condemnation and guilt and shame.

This is where we show our "works" as James says "Faith without works is dead."

It takes faith at this time in our life to cry out what God says we are because of the wonderous grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Lord Jesus ..You are our righteousness!

No..make no mistake about it....this is where faith comes into action....this is where the rubber meets the road for us believers in Christ. Speak out and declare what Jesus says you are in Him!

Then we will live in the knowledge of His great unconditional love for us! We will thank Him for He has done it all for us!

The tears we shed that pour down our face as we experience His love for us - our Father collects these for us and keeps them in a golden bowl in front of Him. He smells the aroma of His Son in our tears and our Father will stand at His throne and declare to heaven that we belong to Him...and He will fight for us!

He is a good, good Father!

EXACTLY!!!! It was a happy joyful day when I did that for the first time in 2015!! Although I was saved around 1982. Thanking Him that I am still the righteousness of God IN Christ even when I failed ... that my identity is hid in Him. Sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. That is again taking the gift of NO CONDEMNATION and walking it out. There is therefore NOW NO condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. And then believing that is the very thing that God wants us to do is depend on Jesus to BE our righteousness., our salvation., our sanctification and our all in all. It always goes back to Jesus.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That is a strange thing for you to say after what you hinged 1 john 3:4 meaning on.

You have been given ample proof the law has been written on the mind and placed on the heart.
You simply choose to ignore it, and the evidence of the weight of scripture that proves it to be true
I would add, much scripture which aligns together concerning this subject.
Your opinion contradicts the scriptures and you say you have the authority to do so.
It is testimony to revelling in studying theology without relying on the holy spirits leading, for according to heb 10:15 it is the holy spirit who testifies to the law being written on the mind and placed on the heart of the christian

OK, you believe something static has been written on your heart to which the holy spirit witnesses; I believe the spirit of a living being has been placed within my heart whose voice speaks GOD's will (his law). Must we quibble?

 

[james57]

OK, you believe something static has been written on your heart to which the holy spirit witnesses; I believe the spirit of a living being has been placed within my heart whose voice speaks GOD's will (his law). Must we quibble?

I would be happy not to continue with this. Frankly I cannot understand why you keep coming to me and finding fault with me accepting what scripture plainly states.
I genuinely hope we might discuss this no more. We have discussed it previously at length, and obviously will not agree

BTW
The holy spirit dwells in all christians, that does not negate him placing the law within them

 

[james57]

I like your desire to deal with the battle to understand our bodies and the functions of the mind walking in the flesh, and the idea of walking in the Holy Spirit.

What I do not like is the proposal we are all schozophrenic, really being the new born spirit separate from the flesh.

This denies personal responsibility or ownership of ones own behaviour. It is starting the idea we are possessed and it is not us who walk in righteousness but this new life within.

A biblical view is both exist together but we can choose to walk as to our selfish rebellious nature or in love after the Holy Spirit. The difference is what we dwell in not that we are two parts.

Psychologists would call your strategy compartmentalisation because you cannot truly face your own behaviour.

The grace of God is tremendous, because though we are often conflicted He still listens to us and deals with us, and takes us on to transform our lives.

24 hours ago I did not think anyone had gone as far as you have expressed, but you have made it clear.
Yes I would call it a heresy, something that is akin to mental illness, not dealing with yourself as a complete whole and learning to love the sinner within, which is what Jesus does through the cross.

The bulk of the argument normally is can we attain perfection in this life or even know that meaning. I would hold we can attain perfection, but only God would know that we had, but walking in perfection is not about walking in perfection as if it like an award or point you arrive at and rest, it is about loving as Jesus loved.

The other problem with your concept is to appease the problem of inbuilt sinful behaviour in the newly born again christian.
How can perfection or salvation be linked with sin? It is and it is why it is a walk of transformation and transcending situations.

So again thankyou for confirming hyper grace is actually alive and kicking and needs to be addressed.

You believe the christian can attain perfection in this life?
So I do not misunderstand you, what perfection are you speaking of, sinless perfection, or perfection in another way?

If we love to the degree Jesus loved would we not be sinless, for love fulfills the law

 

[ladylynn]

What he's teaching is obviously heresy. What I marvel at is that his doctrine is based on the teaching that John was only addressing gnostics in certain parts of the 1 John epistle (maybe all of it, I don't know), but by so doing, he has ended up doing the same thing the gnostics are accused of doing, e.g., saying we have no sin, etc. It's really quite interesting the way iniquity works, and the way the lord snares the disobedient in their own machinations.

HeRose.... This is not the first time this topic has been brought up here on the threads. It is not heresy by any means. We had some really good discussion in a thread started by a member named Ben. I believe the title of the thread was -1John 1:9 Do we need to confess our sins?- (not sure about the title) but 1John 1:9 was on the title.

I've also given this much thought and the solid truth that we are already righteous and we cannot make ourselves unrighteous comes shining through. We do not dance back and forth being righteous then unrighteous. We have received the GIFT of righteousness. He has already cleansed us from all unrighteousness. We are the children of light and we do not become children of the night.,darkness. \

Just heard a message this morning on this subject. All were made sinners by one man's sin... that man was Adam. Even if those who came after Adam were good human beings., it did not change their position as sons of Adam with the Adamic nature, they totally needed Jesus payment for their sin to make them born again and righteous in God's sight.

Every knowledgeable Christian would say the same thing., that 'good' people need Jesus too. Man's righteousness is as filthy rags. Without Christ we would be dead in our trespasses and sins.

So why do some people think when Jesus makes a person Righteous by Imputing HIS righteousness on them that they can somehow get out of it? Is Adam's sin more powerful than Jesus sacrifice? Think about it.