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I usually do, but students of Revelation know these passages by heart.
..behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns.
The 7 heads and 10 horns agree, both Satan and the Beast have them.
Satan is said to have 7 diadems on his 7 heads
The Beast of the Sea has 10 crowns on its 10 horns.
From Rev 17:
The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.
The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet...
None of this has anything to do with Israel.
OMG, is this where you are getting misled? There are two beasts mentioned in Rev 13, the Beast of the Sea and the Beast from the Earth. Thus 13:12 is referring to the Beast of the Sea, the first beast mentioned in this chapter, not the first of the 7 beasts
. Hope that helps?
Perhaps the biggest clue to the identity of Mystery Babylon is the 7 kingdoms which carries her. How can it be Israel? Name the past 7 evil kingdoms which supported Judaism.
..behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns.
The 7 heads and 10 horns agree, both Satan and the Beast have them.
Satan is said to have 7 diadems on his 7 heads
The Beast of the Sea has 10 crowns on its 10 horns.
From Rev 17:
The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.
The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet...
None of this has anything to do with Israel.
OMG, is this where you are getting misled? There are two beasts mentioned in Rev 13, the Beast of the Sea and the Beast from the Earth. Thus 13:12 is referring to the Beast of the Sea, the first beast mentioned in this chapter, not the first of the 7 beasts
. Hope that helps?Perhaps the biggest clue to the identity of Mystery Babylon is the 7 kingdoms which carries her. How can it be Israel? Name the past 7 evil kingdoms which supported Judaism.
If so, was Paul right to think that as it turned out??? NO!!
So was Paul wrong??
Could Paul have written "we" and had it literally mean him and those he wrote to in the 1st century? If so, the WORD would be wrong. As that what you think Brother Popeye, that the WORD was wrong?
Maybe Paul meant something else.
So was Paul wrong??
Could Paul have written "we" and had it literally mean him and those he wrote to in the 1st century? If so, the WORD would be wrong. As that what you think Brother Popeye, that the WORD was wrong?
Maybe Paul meant something else.
The purpose of the Rapture is three fold:
1) to resurrect the rest of the dead, both saved and unsaved for final judgment. The unsaved are condemned, the saved enter the new heaven on the new earth.
2) to transform the living saved into spiritual beings so that they will not be melted with the earth and all the deeds that are in the earth when the old earth is dissolved.
3) to gather all the saved together to be with the ONE GOD in the eternal heaven forever.
I haven't missed it as it hasn't happened yet.
1) to resurrect the rest of the dead, both saved and unsaved for final judgment. The unsaved are condemned, the saved enter the new heaven on the new earth.
2) to transform the living saved into spiritual beings so that they will not be melted with the earth and all the deeds that are in the earth when the old earth is dissolved.
3) to gather all the saved together to be with the ONE GOD in the eternal heaven forever.
I haven't missed it as it hasn't happened yet.
Well yes, both Lot and Noah were pre-trib. But Christ's return is clearly post trib.
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days ...and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
He then goes on to tell us more about the event of His second coming. He does not go back to explain more about events before the tribulation. He's continuing to discuss events leading up to His Second Coming.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
What day and hour? A pretrib return which is never discussed before this or His Second Coming after the Trib?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Which coming of the Son of Man? A pre-trib, undisclosed rapture return, or the second coming which is discussed?
The passage flows. It does not jump back and forth to a secret undisclosed pre-trib return.
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days ...and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
He then goes on to tell us more about the event of His second coming. He does not go back to explain more about events before the tribulation. He's continuing to discuss events leading up to His Second Coming.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
What day and hour? A pretrib return which is never discussed before this or His Second Coming after the Trib?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Which coming of the Son of Man? A pre-trib, undisclosed rapture return, or the second coming which is discussed?
The passage flows. It does not jump back and forth to a secret undisclosed pre-trib return.
Hi Guys!
Popeye is correct in that, the reason that Paul said "we" is because the Lord made it clear that his return to gather the church is always imminent, meaning that he could come at any time. The event of the gathering of the church is erroneously made synonymous with the event of Christ's return to the earth to end the age and to establish his millennial kingdom. The event of the church being gathered to Christ is imminent and takes place prior to the first seal being opened, which begins the wrath of God, where the event of Christ's return to the earth to end the age takes place sometime after the seventh bowl judgment has been poured out, which brings God's wrath to its completion.
The Bride/church, is seen receiving her white robes at the wedding in heaven and the Bride are those also seen following Christ out of heaven riding on white horses and wearing fine linen, white and clean in Rev.19:14. The Bride is the same group referred to in Rev.17:14 who will be with Christ as his called, chosen and faithful followers. These Scriptures demonstrate that the church will have already been in heaven in order to return with Christ from heaven. Also, the fact that the twenty four elders are referred to in Rev.4:4 would also demonstrate that the church is already in heaven and that because twelve of those elders are representing Israel and the other twelve are representing the church. As proof of this, Scripture states that on the twelve gates of the New Jerusalem will be written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel and on the foundations of the city will be written the names of the twelve apostles, representing both groups.
The Lord's promise of his return as found in in 1 Cor.15:51-53 and 1 Thes.4:13-18 is always imminent and is every true believers hope or as Paul said:
"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body." (Phil.3:20-21)
Popeye is correct in that, the reason that Paul said "we" is because the Lord made it clear that his return to gather the church is always imminent, meaning that he could come at any time. The event of the gathering of the church is erroneously made synonymous with the event of Christ's return to the earth to end the age and to establish his millennial kingdom. The event of the church being gathered to Christ is imminent and takes place prior to the first seal being opened, which begins the wrath of God, where the event of Christ's return to the earth to end the age takes place sometime after the seventh bowl judgment has been poured out, which brings God's wrath to its completion.
The Bride/church, is seen receiving her white robes at the wedding in heaven and the Bride are those also seen following Christ out of heaven riding on white horses and wearing fine linen, white and clean in Rev.19:14. The Bride is the same group referred to in Rev.17:14 who will be with Christ as his called, chosen and faithful followers. These Scriptures demonstrate that the church will have already been in heaven in order to return with Christ from heaven. Also, the fact that the twenty four elders are referred to in Rev.4:4 would also demonstrate that the church is already in heaven and that because twelve of those elders are representing Israel and the other twelve are representing the church. As proof of this, Scripture states that on the twelve gates of the New Jerusalem will be written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel and on the foundations of the city will be written the names of the twelve apostles, representing both groups.
The Lord's promise of his return as found in in 1 Cor.15:51-53 and 1 Thes.4:13-18 is always imminent and is every true believers hope or as Paul said:
"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body." (Phil.3:20-21)
Hello again Plainword,
The problem with the Post-Trib belief is that, it puts the living church through the entire wrath of God, which Paul made clear that we are not to suffer. Christ said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it!" Therefore, the Lord is not going to build his church and then send it through his wrath. And regarding his wrath, the whole world will be exposed to God's wrath with the results being the decimation of the earth's population and the dismantling of all human government. Since the true church as been forgiven for all sin and there is now condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, then we cannot be here during the time of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which make up the wrath of God. The following are who God's wrath is going to be against during that time:
"I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. I will make people scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir.
"The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk. Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts."
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
The problem with the Post-Trib belief is that, it puts the living church through the entire wrath of God, which Paul made clear that we are not to suffer. Christ said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it!" Therefore, the Lord is not going to build his church and then send it through his wrath. And regarding his wrath, the whole world will be exposed to God's wrath with the results being the decimation of the earth's population and the dismantling of all human government. Since the true church as been forgiven for all sin and there is now condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, then we cannot be here during the time of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which make up the wrath of God. The following are who God's wrath is going to be against during that time:
"I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. I will make people scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir.
"The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk. Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts."
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
Nope, the Tribulation is not the Wrath of God. The Wrath of God is the Wrath of God which comes after the Tribulation and is God's response to the Great Tribulation. The GT is the Wrath of Satan aimed specifically at God's people. God's wrath is the repayment of Tribulation against those (mostly Muslim) who have been persecuting and killing God's people.
Satan is behind the Great Tribulation.
The Great Multitude in heaven which came out of the Great Tribulation were killed by Satan. Satan kills both Saints and Muslims alike. He is a murderer and the father of all murders.
Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
Whose wrath comes first, God's or Satan's? I assure you when God pours out His wrath it will be too late for Satan to pour out his. Therefore Satan's wrath comes first and Satan's wrath is the Tribulation. God has to shorten those days or Satan will kill everyone!!!
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
God's wrath spoken of by Paul and John is clearly located AFTER the Great Tribulation.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [SUP]8 [/SUP]in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, [SUP]10 [/SUP]when He comes, in that Day...
Notice it is a repaying?
Notice the "troubled" those in tribulation, get rest when Jesus is revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels and not before?
the divine wrath comes in that DAY, the Day Christ returns.
Absolutely!! The Gates of Hades will not prevail against the Church. The Church is seen in heaven as the Great Multitude.
A good chuck of the earth for sure will endure God's wrath and at least 1/3 of all mankind, the Muslim world in particular, will be slaughtered during God's Wrath. However, the entire planet is not destroyed otherwise this command from Rev 18 would make no sense.
“Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.
The concept of God repaying appears again here just as it does in 2 Thes 1. Good people are still on earth and told to leave the place(s) which will be subjected to God's wrath. People cannot just fly away on their own to heaven so they must take refuge in places not undergoing wrath.
Who taught you that the seals, trumpets and bowls all occur during the Great Trib? They don't. We are in the 4th seal right now. If you look closely you will see that Seals 1-5 have nothing to do with God's wrath. Quite the opposite. The 5th seal martyrs were killed by Satan and they are looking for revenge. Clearly God did not kill them - Satan through Islam killed them.
The 5th Trumpet is also clearly from Satan. The locusts are said to have a king from the bottomless pit over them. You cannot think this is God, our Father????
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.
The 6th Trumpet is clearly from God as are all the Bowls. The 6th Seal is also from God. The Lord returns at the 7th Seal, 7th Trumpet and 7th Bowl.
Satan is behind the Great Tribulation.
The Great Multitude in heaven which came out of the Great Tribulation were killed by Satan. Satan kills both Saints and Muslims alike. He is a murderer and the father of all murders.
Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
Whose wrath comes first, God's or Satan's? I assure you when God pours out His wrath it will be too late for Satan to pour out his. Therefore Satan's wrath comes first and Satan's wrath is the Tribulation. God has to shorten those days or Satan will kill everyone!!!
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
God's wrath spoken of by Paul and John is clearly located AFTER the Great Tribulation.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [SUP]8 [/SUP]in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, [SUP]10 [/SUP]when He comes, in that Day...
Notice it is a repaying?
Notice the "troubled" those in tribulation, get rest when Jesus is revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels and not before?
the divine wrath comes in that DAY, the Day Christ returns.
Absolutely!! The Gates of Hades will not prevail against the Church. The Church is seen in heaven as the Great Multitude.
A good chuck of the earth for sure will endure God's wrath and at least 1/3 of all mankind, the Muslim world in particular, will be slaughtered during God's Wrath. However, the entire planet is not destroyed otherwise this command from Rev 18 would make no sense.
“Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.
The concept of God repaying appears again here just as it does in 2 Thes 1. Good people are still on earth and told to leave the place(s) which will be subjected to God's wrath. People cannot just fly away on their own to heaven so they must take refuge in places not undergoing wrath.
Who taught you that the seals, trumpets and bowls all occur during the Great Trib? They don't. We are in the 4th seal right now. If you look closely you will see that Seals 1-5 have nothing to do with God's wrath. Quite the opposite. The 5th seal martyrs were killed by Satan and they are looking for revenge. Clearly God did not kill them - Satan through Islam killed them.
The 5th Trumpet is also clearly from Satan. The locusts are said to have a king from the bottomless pit over them. You cannot think this is God, our Father????
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.
The 6th Trumpet is clearly from God as are all the Bowls. The 6th Seal is also from God. The Lord returns at the 7th Seal, 7th Trumpet and 7th Bowl.
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K
The private interpretation scripture is referring to people can not make scripture say what they want.
All true believers will be in one according because the Holy Spirit will give truth to them.
The Holy Spirit can not tell two people conflicting information.
Jesus 2nd coming is described in scripture as after the Tribulation, and the 1st Resurrection is clearly shown to take place at that time.
Order of events:
1)tribulation starts
2)Great tribulation the final 3 1/2 years
3)rapture/1st Resurrection
4)Armageddon / God's wrath
5) Millennial reign of Christ
6) Satan released / Gog and Magog brought to war
7) final judgment / God's great white judgment
8) New Heaven, earth, and Jerusalem
All true believers will be in one according because the Holy Spirit will give truth to them.
The Holy Spirit can not tell two people conflicting information.
Jesus 2nd coming is described in scripture as after the Tribulation, and the 1st Resurrection is clearly shown to take place at that time.
Order of events:
1)tribulation starts
2)Great tribulation the final 3 1/2 years
3)rapture/1st Resurrection
4)Armageddon / God's wrath
5) Millennial reign of Christ
6) Satan released / Gog and Magog brought to war
7) final judgment / God's great white judgment
8) New Heaven, earth, and Jerusalem
K
What difference does reigning with Christ during the millennial have to do with a pre or post tribulation rapture ???
That can still happen either way as we will be caught up so God's wrath can be poured out.
Nowhere does God's word say we will escape persecution/tribulation. It says we will not face His wrath.
The tribulation is not God's wrath, and Revelation clearly states the final 42 months is the man of sins appointed time.
Who is the man of sin killing in the Tribulation if the Church is raptured away ???
It is not just unbelieving Jews as it clearly also states those who have the testimony of Christ (believers).
That can still happen either way as we will be caught up so God's wrath can be poured out.
Nowhere does God's word say we will escape persecution/tribulation. It says we will not face His wrath.
The tribulation is not God's wrath, and Revelation clearly states the final 42 months is the man of sins appointed time.
Who is the man of sin killing in the Tribulation if the Church is raptured away ???
It is not just unbelieving Jews as it clearly also states those who have the testimony of Christ (believers).
Sixth Seal:
"They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[SUP]f[/SUP] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
Seventh Trumpet:
"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. The nations were angry, and your wrath has come.
Bowl Judgments:
"I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed."
Scripture does not lie my friend. These announcements of wrath are made at the sixth seal (which includes the previous seals), the seventh trumpet and in reference to the seven bowls, which are all referred to as wrath. The resurrection and catching away takes place prior to the first seal being opened. Another proof that the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are the wrath of God is because The Lamb, Jesus Christ, is the One who is opening the seals, which lead to the trumpets, which is followed by the bowl judgments.
God is the One who is behind the Great Tribulation and is in fact responsible for the entire last seven years, as it is the fulfillment of the decree that God made upon Israel and her holy city, Jerusalem found in Dan.9:24. The events of the beast and the false prophet will be taking place during that time of God's wrath and is in fact apart of God's wrath.
The great multitude in white robes which no man can count, are the great tribulation saints (GTS), which is not the church. You will never see the word "Ekklesia/church" listed anywhere in the narrative regarding God's wrath. The GTS are those who will become believers after the church has been removed and will be on the earth during the time of God's wrath and during reign of the beast. The word church is used over 20 times throughout chapters 1 thru the very end of chapter 3, but the word "Hagios/saints" is never found in those chapters. Likewise, the word "Hagios/saints" is always used beginning from Rev.5:8 onward, but you will never see the word "Church" anywhere in reference to God's wrath. Don't you find it suspicious that the word "church" is never used after chapter 4? God is making a distinction between the church and the GTS. The fact that the elder is introducing this group demonstrates that they are not the church, but a different group. The fact the elder asks John who they are and that John didn't know, also demonstrates that this group is not the church.
"Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her"
The above has to do with God calling his people who are within Mystery Babylon so that they will not partake in her plagues that God is going to bring upon her. Mystery Babylon is that city that ruled over the kings of the earth, which at the time John was receiving that information from the angel was Rome. The angel also said, "the seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sits." So, the woman is a city that ruled over the kings of the earth and sits on seven hills, which would also point to Rome, which was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. It is pointing us to Rome and her adulterous, pagan system which is claiming to be the church of Christ. Therefore, Mystery Babylon has nothing to do directly with the Muslims.
I don't know why people automatically jump to the conclusion that when Scripture is presented, they assume that it has been taught. I have not been taught anything from men, it's called studying the word of God, which are my own personal studies. And yes, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are all the wrath of God and they take place prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom. If you will notice, at the pouring out of the sixth bowl, Jesus interjects the following:
"Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed."
The fact that Jesus is stating the above after the sixth bowl has been poured out, demonstrates that he has not yet come by that time. It is not until after the pouring out of the seventh bowl that he returns to the earth to end the age as shown in Rev.19:11-21.
The seals, trumpets and bowls will be unprecedented events bringing an end to this age. They are not events that can go by unnoticed. At the fourth seal alone, a fourth of the earth's immediate population is killed, which based on 7 billion people would come out to 1.7 billion people dead and we have in no way seen a fulfillment of this. As I said, since Jesus is the One opening the seals, then they are also apart of God's wrath. One of the biggest problems that I continue to see is that, people don't understand the magnitude of what God's wrath is going be. With just the fourth seal and the sixth trumpet, there will be at least 4.4 billion fatalities as a result of just these two. The first seal is representing the antichrist and therefore, since he has not yet been revealed, we cannot possibly be at the fourth seal. When he reveals himself by making his seven year covenant, then the first seal will have been opened.
God will be responsible for all of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, for they will fulfill his wrath. The star/angel that has the key to the Abyss and who is letting out those demonic beings is by God's command. Those fallen angels mentioned at the sixth trumpet who are bound at the great Euphrates River, are bound by God and will be released by God. For it is the angel that sounds the sixth trumpet who is told to go and release them. It is God, through those 200 million demonic beings of the sixth trumpet, who is having a third of the earth's population killed. It is God who is allowing that beast to come up out of the Abyss.
"They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[SUP]f[/SUP] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
Seventh Trumpet:
"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. The nations were angry, and your wrath has come.
Bowl Judgments:
"I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed."
Scripture does not lie my friend. These announcements of wrath are made at the sixth seal (which includes the previous seals), the seventh trumpet and in reference to the seven bowls, which are all referred to as wrath. The resurrection and catching away takes place prior to the first seal being opened. Another proof that the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are the wrath of God is because The Lamb, Jesus Christ, is the One who is opening the seals, which lead to the trumpets, which is followed by the bowl judgments.
God is the One who is behind the Great Tribulation and is in fact responsible for the entire last seven years, as it is the fulfillment of the decree that God made upon Israel and her holy city, Jerusalem found in Dan.9:24. The events of the beast and the false prophet will be taking place during that time of God's wrath and is in fact apart of God's wrath.
The great multitude in white robes which no man can count, are the great tribulation saints (GTS), which is not the church. You will never see the word "Ekklesia/church" listed anywhere in the narrative regarding God's wrath. The GTS are those who will become believers after the church has been removed and will be on the earth during the time of God's wrath and during reign of the beast. The word church is used over 20 times throughout chapters 1 thru the very end of chapter 3, but the word "Hagios/saints" is never found in those chapters. Likewise, the word "Hagios/saints" is always used beginning from Rev.5:8 onward, but you will never see the word "Church" anywhere in reference to God's wrath. Don't you find it suspicious that the word "church" is never used after chapter 4? God is making a distinction between the church and the GTS. The fact that the elder is introducing this group demonstrates that they are not the church, but a different group. The fact the elder asks John who they are and that John didn't know, also demonstrates that this group is not the church.
"Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her"
The above has to do with God calling his people who are within Mystery Babylon so that they will not partake in her plagues that God is going to bring upon her. Mystery Babylon is that city that ruled over the kings of the earth, which at the time John was receiving that information from the angel was Rome. The angel also said, "the seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sits." So, the woman is a city that ruled over the kings of the earth and sits on seven hills, which would also point to Rome, which was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. It is pointing us to Rome and her adulterous, pagan system which is claiming to be the church of Christ. Therefore, Mystery Babylon has nothing to do directly with the Muslims.
I don't know why people automatically jump to the conclusion that when Scripture is presented, they assume that it has been taught. I have not been taught anything from men, it's called studying the word of God, which are my own personal studies. And yes, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are all the wrath of God and they take place prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom. If you will notice, at the pouring out of the sixth bowl, Jesus interjects the following:
"Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed."
The fact that Jesus is stating the above after the sixth bowl has been poured out, demonstrates that he has not yet come by that time. It is not until after the pouring out of the seventh bowl that he returns to the earth to end the age as shown in Rev.19:11-21.
The seals, trumpets and bowls will be unprecedented events bringing an end to this age. They are not events that can go by unnoticed. At the fourth seal alone, a fourth of the earth's immediate population is killed, which based on 7 billion people would come out to 1.7 billion people dead and we have in no way seen a fulfillment of this. As I said, since Jesus is the One opening the seals, then they are also apart of God's wrath. One of the biggest problems that I continue to see is that, people don't understand the magnitude of what God's wrath is going be. With just the fourth seal and the sixth trumpet, there will be at least 4.4 billion fatalities as a result of just these two. The first seal is representing the antichrist and therefore, since he has not yet been revealed, we cannot possibly be at the fourth seal. When he reveals himself by making his seven year covenant, then the first seal will have been opened.
God will be responsible for all of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, for they will fulfill his wrath. The star/angel that has the key to the Abyss and who is letting out those demonic beings is by God's command. Those fallen angels mentioned at the sixth trumpet who are bound at the great Euphrates River, are bound by God and will be released by God. For it is the angel that sounds the sixth trumpet who is told to go and release them. It is God, through those 200 million demonic beings of the sixth trumpet, who is having a third of the earth's population killed. It is God who is allowing that beast to come up out of the Abyss.
Because according to popeye, plainword believes that the resurrection and catching away doesn't take place until the end of the of Christ's thousand year reign. Scripture states that those who overcome will be in their glorified bodies which demonstrates that they will have already been resurrected prior to the millennial period.
K
The great tribulation is appointed to the 1st beast / man of sin.
Revelation ,13:5 clearly says that time period is given to him over all the nation's.
As for your mention of Revelation 7 those killed in the great tribulation they are Gentile believers, not just Jews.
We know this because it says they are from all the nation's.
You claim this is not the Church, problem is they are believers and believers are the Church.
Why do some continue to preach us believers in the middle escape persecution, when scripture does not teach it ???
Revelation ,13:5 clearly says that time period is given to him over all the nation's.
As for your mention of Revelation 7 those killed in the great tribulation they are Gentile believers, not just Jews.
We know this because it says they are from all the nation's.
You claim this is not the Church, problem is they are believers and believers are the Church.
Why do some continue to preach us believers in the middle escape persecution, when scripture does not teach it ???