Hyper grace

[james57]

Because he did what his flesh told him to do.

He did what his flesh told him to do in ch7:14-25 of romans

I really wish you could allow for the possibility you just could be wrong on this and study it hard, depending fully on the holy spirit for enlightenment.

Sin DID NOT through the law arouse all manner of concupiscence in Paul the christian and by the commandment slay him for he lived under grace not law as a christian. He died to a law of righteousness therefore the law COULD NOT condemn Paul the christian

 

[james57]

Euphemia
Do you believe Paul is speaking solely of his life as a Pharisee in rom 7:7-11 or of the whole of his christian life

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

He did what his flesh told him to do in ch7:14-25 of romans

I really wish you could allow for the possibility you just could be wrong on this and study it hard, depending fully on the holy spirit for enlightenment.

The law did NOT arouse all manner of concupiscence in Paul the christian and by the commandment slay him for he lived under grace not law as a christian. He died to a law of righteousness therefore the law COULD NOT condemn Paul the christian

Paul didn't instantly know all there was to know about grace and not struggle anymore with his former life and ignorance. He was a pharisee of pharisees. The fact that he was an avid follower of the 6th commandment, yet was murdering his own countrymen without compunction shows that he didn't understand the law or obey the law. It's true meaning hadn't come to him yet. That only happened after he was saved.

 

[james57]

Paul didn't instantly know all there was to know about grace and not struggle anymore with his former life and ignorance. He was a pharisee of pharisees. The fact that he was an avid follower of the 6th commandment, yet was murdering his own countrymen without compunction shows that he didn't understand the law or obey the law. It's true meaning hadn't come to him yet. That only happened after he was saved.

Paul the Pharisee understood what the tenth commandment entailed!

He didn't know the truth of the gospel true, but to say the most ardent of Pharisees didn't know the ten commandments is what?
How would you describe it?

He thought as a misguided Pharisee he was defending the law and the phariseeic traditions by persecuting the disciples.

But ge didn't know or try to follow the ten commandments as a pharisee????
Come on

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Paul the Pharisee understood what the tenth commandment entailed!

He didn't know the truth of the gospel true, but to say the most ardent of Pharisees didn't know the ten commandments is what?
How would you describe it?

He thought as a misguided Pharisee he was defending the law and the phariseeic traditions by persecuting the disciples.

But ge didn't know or try to follow the ten commandments as a pharisee????
Come on

Paul was alive when he was apart from the law as a pharisee because it wasn't written in his heart. He kept the external forms of the law that were pleasing to men (murder was OK). But when the commandment came into his heart, the realization of sin was made alive, and he died to his self-righteousness.

I was alive once, apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died, and this commandment which was to lead to life was found with respect to me to lead to death. Romans 7:9-10​

 

[james57]

Paul was alive when he was apart from the law as a pharisee because it wasn't written in his heart. He kept the external forms of the law that were pleasing to men (murder was OK). But when the commandment came into his heart, the realization of sin was made alive, and he died to his self-righteousness.

I was alive once, apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died, and this commandment which was to lead to life was found with respect to me to lead to death. Romans 7:9-10​

This is insane. Are you seriously telling me the most ardent of pharisees was alive without the law as a Pharisee but once he became a christian sin consciousness sprang to life and ge died was condemned by the law

So Paul the Pharisee knew nothing of sin?????

 

[james57]

I have to go out. I will respond to your further comments in a while

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This is insane. Are you seriously telling me the most ardent of pharisees was alive without the law as a Pharisee but once he became a christian sin consciousness sprang to life and ge died was condemned by the law

So Paul the Pharisee knew nothing of sin?????

Vis-a-vis Acts 8:1 and Acts 9:1, your question is self-answering.

 

[james57]

Vis-a-vis Acts 8:1 and Acts 9:1, your question is self-answering.

No it doesn't. However, rather than derail this thread, I am about to start a debate on this very subject. I want to see how many actually agree with you. You are welcome to partake in it

 

[james57]

Lynn, Grace 770, Euphemia

I hope you will all state whether you believe Paul is talking solely as a Pharisee in Rom 7:7-11, or also of his life as a Christian

 

[james57]

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
When exactly did Paul learn of lust? As a Pharisee, or as a Christian?
When did the Ten Commandments come to Paul, as a Pharisee or as a Christian?
When did Paul first know of sin, as a Pharisee or as a Christian?[SUP]
8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Did sin through the law arouse all manner of concupiscence in Paul as a Pharisee, or also as a Christian(remember rom6:14)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Did Paul die(feel condemned) as a Christian by the law, or solely as a Pharisee?
Did Paul the Christian find the commandment to be unto death, or only Paul the Pharisee

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Was Paul the Christian slain by sin through the commandment, or was only Paul the Pharisee slain by sin through the commandment?


Sorry, couldn't resist adding this post!

 

[JFSurvivor]

Hi JFSurvivor., When reading your post here i was reminded of a verse I think is in Proverbs..
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart., and LEAN NOT TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING., in all thy ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths."

It's comforting to know that our thoughts are not always right. God's Word says His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. So reading the Bible is vital so our minds can be like His AND we can know how to walk and how to think. We can be sincere in our thoughts but we can be sincerely wrong at times as well if we don't have the mind of Christ leading our thoughts. AND He promises us that if we acknowledge Him in all our ways in life, He WILL direct our paths. wow.,Blessings.

But even under grace God gives us a choice to listen or to not listen. What happens when we choose to not listen?

 

[james57]

But even under grace God gives us a choice to listen or to not listen. What happens when we choose to not listen?

Your conscience gets seered, for you are going against the law on your heart. The longer you continue like that, the worse you must feel. You have no rest, and no peace until you come before your Father in Heaven and bow the knee

 

[JFSurvivor]

Your conscience gets seered, for you are going against the law on your heart. The longer you continue like that, the worse you must feel. You have no rest, and no peace until you come before your Father in Heaven and bow the knee

So I ask again, why do so many Christians continue to do wrong? Do you need to turn from your sin to be saved?

 

[james57]

So I ask again, why do so many Christians continue to do wrong? Do you need to turn from your sin to be saved?

I keep wondering whether I should tell you at which church I saw the most flagrant sin? I won't yet!

Christians are not perfect, though in saying that it is tragic some feel they can happily live immoral lifestyles and be OK. Thankfully in the churches I have been to there has not been great excesses of that seen

 

[james57]

So I ask again, why do so many Christians continue to do wrong? Do you need to turn from your sin to be saved?

What wrong are you speaking of, can you be specific, for none are perfect.

You need to have a change of heart to be saved. You have to want/desire in your heart to follow Christ. However, as Paul tells us, you then have to cross over from being a slave of sin to a slave of righteousness leading to holiness(Gal2:15-18) Paul makes clear this process takes time and during it you may be found to be an evident sinner

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a great teaching on "Why do we still sin"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi-oq5qBkWA

So I ask again, why do so many Christians continue to do wrong? Do you need to turn from your sin to be saved?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is a reason why the Lord does not boom out His view. You would argue with Him rather than just follow.

The gospel in essence is about being a servant, seeing a need and meeting it with a good heart.
Jesus washed the disciples feet.

No, this is not even close to being true. This would tend to lead one to legalism, or a performance based Gospel. which is not from God

The gospel is about Gods mercy love and forgiveness. As the blind man said, Jesus, son of david, have mercy on me, As the tax collector said. Unable to even look up out of shame. Have mercy on me a sinner.

That is the gospel.

Serving others is a result of gratitude for what God gave us, and learning to love as God because as the blind man did, we immediately follow him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well it's different for everyone. For some people their own fear of their parents keeps them accountable. For other people nothing keeps them accountable and they keep making the same mistakes over and over. You see this all the time with drug addicts and parents who forgive again and again and again. It soon becomes enabaling.

Good points,

And in both of those cases. Self is the motivation. The one who says I do not care what my parents say, I can live however I want (the licentious) or the ones who are so afraid of their parents, they perform out of fear (the legalist)

now. How about the ones who actually have some humility, and TRUST their parents. What keeps them motivated.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is your deffinition of love?

Mans definition (I love you as long as I can get something from you) Or Gods? (I love you unconditionally. I want to serve you and fulfill ALL your needs)

Some parents define love as beating their kid silly and kicking them out of the house before they are ready and other parents belive love to be throwing money at their kids constantly. Other parents belive love to be settin healthy boundaries for their kids and rules so the kid learns right from wrong and implementing appropriate consequences for when the kid breaks one of the rules.

Is this God? Does he treat us this way?

who would want to do one thing for these parents?

My point was, If we have the most loving human parents possible (with all their human flaws) why are we still not perfect children? What is the cause of our disobedience to parents who love us? do we hate them?