Young Earth creationism

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pottersclay said:
tintin come on very good does not mean perfect if it were so then Adam would not have sinned.
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God rested from His perfect work of creation before the entrance of sin and the fall of mankind. Therefore it was perfect!

Just because somewhere down the road Adam & Eve sinned doesn't mean at that time they weren't perfect. As a matter of fact they were created in God's image after His likeness. This means that they perfectly reflected God's agape love - a love that is not self-seeking.

If one rejects this then Lucifer was not perfect in all his ways before he introduced his love of self (iniquity). But the Bible plainly states that

"You (Lucifer) were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, till iniquity was found in you." Ez 28:15
 
EG there are 2 reasons I state this .

1. When you say Adam was perfect you are stating that flesh and bone were perfect.
As Adam declared when he and eve were to become one, this is bone of my bone flesh of my flesh.
The Lord God is perfect in every way, he and he alone. If he were to make someone perfect it would have to be equal to him, anything less is not perfect.

Also the scriptures state it was good or very good not perfect. If Adam were perfect and we say the serpent tricked him then we can say that Satan can even trick God and cause him to fall.
 
dalconn said:
[SUP]If God didn't make the age of the earth an issue then why do we?


TITUS 3:9-11
9 [/SUP]But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, [SUP]11 [/SUP]knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.
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I agree, but this isn't a foolish dispute. The age of the earth is linked to evolution. And if you go with theistic evolution then you immediately realize that sin & death were an integral part the big bang theory. How so?

From it's beginning the principle of "the survival of the fittest" was at play and therefore death to the weaker. That would mean God was the author of sin & death. Also any Sabbath rest would be rendered meaningless for nothing was perfect.

So all these heresies attack God. They attack His rest and these make Him the author of sin & death instead of Satan, the deceiver.
 
pottersclay said:
EG there are 2 reasons I state this .

1. When you say Adam was perfect you are stating that flesh and bone were perfect.
As Adam declared when he and eve were to become one, this is bone of my bone flesh of my flesh.
The Lord God is perfect in every way, he and he alone. If he were to make someone perfect it would have to be equal to him, anything less is not perfect.

Also the scriptures state it was good or very good not perfect. If Adam were perfect and we say the serpent tricked him then we can say that Satan can even trick God and cause him to fall.
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Perfect can mean 2 things. Without flaw. without sin

Adam and all creation was created without flaw. and without sin.

What Caused Adam to sin was not a flaw. but a side affect of free will.

In order for God to create us in a way we will freely receive what he is offering (God created us to receive his love) then he must create us with free will, and the ability to reject that love.
 
pottersclay said:
If Adam were perfect and we say the serpent tricked him then we can say that Satan can even trick God and cause him to fall.
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Bad conclusion...very bad.

God created Adam & Eve with free-wills.

Sin is a mystery, no doubt. How could sinless being, sin? The Bible doesn't give us an answer.

Nevertheless Adam & Eve were created perfect or God's rest from His perfect creation becomes meaningless.
 
Roberth said:
Nevertheless Adam & Eve were created perfect or God's rest from His perfect creation becomes meaningless.
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Let me ask you this, is "God's rest" from His redemption "in Christ Jesus" perfect or imperfect?

Can you add to God's work of redemption, or is "His rest" (see Heb 4:9,10) from His perfect work "in Christ" complete and therefore perfect?

If you say it's imperfect that means you can add, by your works, to what God completed "in Christ Jesus" and that is legalism and self-righteousness.
 
So God uses a sliding scale when it comes to perfection ?

Jesus said be he perfect as your father in heaven is perfect.....so I can be a really good person to the best of my ability because it's about the same?
 
pottersclay said:
So God uses a sliding scale when it comes to perfection ?

Jesus said be he perfect as your father in heaven is perfect.....so I can be a really good person to the best of my ability because it's about the same?
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You are confusing the subject. We are dealing with Adam & Eve before the fall. No, you - fallen child of Adam - can't be perfect. Perfection is not sinning, ever....
 
pottersclay said:
So God uses a sliding scale when it comes to perfection ?

Jesus said be he perfect as your father in heaven is perfect.....so I can be a really good person to the best of my ability because it's about the same?
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so where was the flaw?

We do not know what adam experienced, We were not there. So we have nothing from which to base our ideas..

Yet we can ask. where was the flaw?
 
Joidevivre said:
with all due respect, does it really matter?
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That is probably the most intelligent response I have seen on this subject! The Bible is about our condition/relationship with God and his plan to bring us back into fellowship with him through Christs completed work not an exercise in speculation.
 
tanakh said:
That is probably the most intelligent response I have seen on this subject! The Bible is about our condition/relationship with God and his plan to bring us back into fellowship with him through Christs completed work not an exercise in speculation.
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I agree, but this isn't a foolish dispute. The age of the earth is linked to evolution. And if you go with theistic evolution then you immediately realize that sin & death were an integral part the big bang theory. How so?

From it's beginning the principle of "the survival of the fittest" was at play and therefore death to the weaker. That would mean God was the author of sin & death. Also any Sabbath rest would be rendered meaningless for nothing was perfect.

So all these heresies attack God. They attack His rest and these make Him the author of sin & death instead of Satan, the deceiver.
 
Jesus was not created by God he always was and is God. Man cannot save him self. Jesus being fully God and fully man.
 
pottersclay said:
Gen 1:31 show me where the word perfect is used.
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Now that's a straw man.....Show me where God didn't create a perfect humanity. I can show were He did create a humanity without sin and immortal:


Gen 1:27 God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them
 
Dino246 said:
A strawman approach, or argument, is a tactic often described as a logical fallacy. It is the practice of presenting a simplified and often inaccurate summary of an opponent's views, then attacking that summary and concluding that you have thereby won the argument. The problem with it is that the presenter usually does not accurately represent the opponent's views, so what he is attacking is actually a "straw-man", not the actual thing itself.

Bowman used it twice in this thread, the same way. He set up young-earth creationists as the opponent, characterized their views negatively, summarized them inaccurately, then attacked his summary as though it accurately represented the views of y-e-c'ers. And it appears that he believes he has adequately refuted their beliefs, which he hasn't.
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thanks much appreciated allan
 
Dino246 said:
You seem to be defending old-earth creation. If that is the case, then defend it by asserting its merits, not by attacking an alternate view which no-one has directly espoused here (y-e-c, as such).
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Do you believe that man walked on the moon?

Yes, of course, you do.

The science that put man there says that the Universe is billions of years old.
 
Tintin said:
Bowman, it's absolutely OEC's who have the need for invention. I'm not sure why you only come out of the woodwork when these origins-related topics are brought up.
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I hit creationism threads to kill time while working other threads.

Its a slam dunk that the Universe and the earth are billions of years old, for anyone even remotely familiar with the sciences...and scripture for that matter...;)
 
​roberth you put the word perfect in the scriptures.... that is not found in the scriptures.
You say because of the image of God this made them perfect....not so ...I have a son who looks much like me but he is not me ....he is a image of me .....a likeness ...but not me.

If we say that God's creation was perfect in the beginning then we must conclude that Satan can undermine God's perfect work.... which is not biblical.

I am not a straw man as you tried to point out, I gave you scripture for you to show me where I error. ......you have not.

We will never be as God but by the blood of Christ we will be called the sons of God ...not the son but sons of God. Not trying to ruffle your feathers just giving you straight truth.....never imply a word that is not used it changes the whole meaning let alone contradicts the whole story.
The words very good was used in gen which in a far cry from perfect in God's eyes.
I leave you with peace and these thoughts I will not derail this thread again.
 
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