the rapture

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DP

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Firstly,that parable is after the mil.
The W&T parable is used by postrib s to demonstrate (without a shred of truth) that those "taken" in mat 24 are wicked humans destined for fire or satan's army

Then they tie in "where the carcass is..." To "seal the deal",as if this harmonizes with scripture.

That would be well and fine if we could erase my 4examples THAT DESTROYS THAT NOTION.

IT IS A PACKAGE. Postrib package.

IOW,what they do is ignore 3 verses in favor of one.

That is their method,and I can rip that deal to shreds.

But......to them,that don't matter.

They exist doctrinally off of that format.
You haven't ripped Jesus' answer to His disciples question at the end of Luke 17 of 'where' those "taken" are taken to. Jesus made His answer very plain those are 'taken' to where the wicked will be. And the Matt.24:28 version is even more telling of that with those being called a dead "carcase" which is exactly the meaning of the Greek for that word too.

Nor can you escape the fact that the Pre-trib Rapture preachers instead teach those "taken" is about a pre-trib rapture to Christ prior to the tribulation!

So pull the other leg, and it plays Jingle-Bells!
 

DP

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Sep 27, 2015
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Hello PlainWord,

Please show me any scripture where the great tribulation saints are referred to by the use of the word "Ekklesia" translated "Church."
Easy.

Eph 2:20-22
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
KJV



Apostle Paul there was speaking specifically about Christ's Church. Do you need the Greek word for Church to be in that verse to know that is what Paul was speaking about? If you do, then you are obviously confused about many other things written in God's Word.

In Matt.24 and Mark 13, who was Jesus speaking to upon the Mount of Olives? Who was there with Him? His Apostles, which are represented as what by Paul there in Ephesians 2? Part of the "foundation" of Christ's Church.

So the stupid fabrication by the Pre-trib Rapture doctors that the events of Matt.24 were only meant for the Jews and not Christ's Church is exactly that, a stupid fabrication, a LIE.
 

DP

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Sep 27, 2015
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Hello PlainWord,


"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands."

"Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?” I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore,"

Now do you believe that there are great tribulation saints?
Per our Lord Jesus' 7 Messages to the Churches in Revelation, His command was to be overcomers of this world and its trials. When you wash your robes make them white in the Blood of The Lamb, that means going through trials and overcoming through Him. It specifically is what the meaning of the new name of Israel is that God gave to Jacob, to prevail with God's help.

So that "great multitude" being used to support a Pre-trib Rapture idea actually is going against this Biblical truth, and to show that they DID suffer the great tribulation, that's why those are included in that Rev.7 chapter which is about sealing of God's elect for the purpose of not being deceived during the tribulation! And the MAIN thing you exclude given within those passages about the "great multitude" is the TIMING when John was given to see them...

Rev 7:15-17
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He That sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb Which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
KJV


When are those things like those "living fountains of waters" and "shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat" supposed to manifest per God's Word?

Those things are to manifest AFTER Christ's return, after the "day of the Lord" events. THAT is when God's house of Ezekiel 40 forward will manifest on the earth, with Christ's servants serving Him day and night.

So that definitely... is NOT about some Pre-trib secret Rapture prior to the tribulation. It instead shows they also were sealed prior to those "four winds" blowing of that Rev.7 chapter.
 
A

ATH1

Guest
I use green's Greek interlinear.

I own 3 of them.

Satan has zero to do with my bibles.

But anytime you want to step up to serious systematic theology you will need a Greek bible.

(textus receptus or received text)

Not being mean,but there is higher ground than where you have parked.
popeye, I know you are not being mean and yes I do know i am on lower ground, but I am so interested in Gods word and I am climbing up as far as God wants me to.
I enjoy the back and forth and I'll make a deal with you. when we all get to Heaven I'll bet the one that knows the most here will not even have it 1% correct. its the climb that makes it interesting.

humbly...allan
 

DP

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Sep 27, 2015
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popeye, I know you are not being mean and yes I do know i am on lower ground, but I am so interested in Gods word and I am climbing up as far as God wants me to.
I enjoy the back and forth and I'll make a deal with you. when we all get to Heaven I'll bet the one that knows the most here will not even have it 1% correct. its the climb that makes it interesting.

humbly...allan
Don't worry about it Allan, one can have all the Greek Interlinears they can find and still be deceived from listening to doctrines of men.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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popeye, I know you are not being mean and yes I do know i am on lower ground, but I am so interested in Gods word and I am climbing up as far as God wants me to.
I enjoy the back and forth and I'll make a deal with you. when we all get to Heaven I'll bet the one that knows the most here will not even have it 1% correct. its the climb that makes it interesting.

humbly...allan
You're not parked on lower ground, just a different plane.
 
A

ATH1

Guest
Don't worry about it Allan, one can have all the Greek Interlinears they can find and still be deceived from listening to doctrines of men.
Thanks DP, I think we all mean well here. at least we all could agree that we all love God. Its so easy to see how satan gets involved in all christian chat. It seems like the most inconsequential statement evolves into several pages of incoherent debate that winds up being meaningless. This is satans way of keeping us from learning.
Lord knows I got a long way to go myself and I wish I could see a continuing learning as I read through the posts.

I agree DP Its not what a person reads or studies, its what God reveals to each person.

thanks for the lift up my friend.

humbly...allan
 
P

popeye

Guest
Thanks DP, I think we all mean well here. at least we all could agree that we all love God. Its so easy to see how satan gets involved in all christian chat. It seems like the most inconsequential statement evolves into several pages of incoherent debate that winds up being meaningless. This is satans way of keeping us from learning.
Lord knows I got a long way to go myself and I wish I could see a continuing learning as I read through the posts.

I agree DP Its not what a person reads or studies, its what God reveals to each person.

thanks for the lift up my friend.

humbly...allan
Amazing how you find the highest ground outside the word of God,and even attracts others of the same leaning.
 
P

popeye

Guest
You haven't ripped Jesus' answer to His disciples question at the end of Luke 17 of 'where' those "taken" are taken to. Jesus made His answer very plain those are 'taken' to where the wicked will be. And the Matt.24:28 version is even more telling of that with those being called a dead "carcase" which is exactly the meaning of the Greek for that word too.

Nor can you escape the fact that the Pre-trib Rapture preachers instead teach those "taken" is about a pre-trib rapture to Christ prior to the tribulation!

So pull the other leg, and it plays Jingle-Bells!
Jesus answer "where vultures gather you will find dead bodies",is not a location.

What you are doing is called a sky grab.

"where is that truck taking those children?"
"where sailboats are you will find water"

" well that is obviously a suicide mission to the bottom of the ocean"

The dead carcass dynamic is not a place. Nor a building block. You are missing it on both counts
 

DP

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Sep 27, 2015
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Amazing how you find the highest ground outside the word of God,and even attracts others of the same leaning.
You're being nasty popeye. You haven't proven anything on this rapture thread against what Scripture clearly states about Christ's coming after the tribulation. You simply have yet to realize that you are following a doctrine of men with the Pre-trib rapture idea. Because you haven't been able to support it by the Scriptures does not mean you have to turn to slander and lies in bearing false witness.
 

DP

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Sep 27, 2015
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Jesus answer "where vultures gather you will find dead bodies",is not a location.
Most certainly is a location. It's wherever those who fall away to worship the pseudo-Christ will be. That is where the spiritually dead will be gathered to, to that false one. Will that involve a mimic of the 1 Thess.4 event by that pseudo-Christ? I don't think so. The Pre-trib Rapture doctors will only need to modify their doctrine again to get you there with that pseudo-Christ in Jerusalem. In Luke 21, our Lord Jesus warned His that are in the countries, to not enter into Jerusalem when the desolation is near. We are to stay away from there, and be patient waiting for His coming.

What you are doing is called a sky grab.

"where is that truck taking those children?"
"where sailboats are you will find water"

" well that is obviously a suicide mission to the bottom of the ocean"
That analogy just does not... work at all!

At the end of Luke 17, Jesus' disciples asked Him "Where, Lord?" in regard to the one in the field "taken" and the other left behind. Jesus' answer in Matt.24:28 is more clear, whersoever the "carcase" (dead) is, that's where the vultures will be gathered together (NIV), which by that Jesus used a natural event of scavenger birds feasting on dead carcases as an analogy for the spiritually dead as prey for Satan's hosts during the tribulation.

Not sure if you're aware or not, but birds of prey have often been used as symbolic for Satan's host in God's Word (Matt.13 in the parable of the sower in Matt.13:4 & 19).
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Jesus answer "where vultures gather you will find dead bodies",is not a location.

What you are doing is called a sky grab.

"where is that truck taking those children?"
"where sailboats are you will find water"

" well that is obviously a suicide mission to the bottom of the ocean"

The dead carcass dynamic is not a place. Nor a building block. You are missing it on both counts
THIS IS A LONG POST BUT ANYONE WHO WANTS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WILL HAPPEN SOON, PLEASE READ!!

DP has it right. "Where the Eagles are Gathered" is absolutely a place where the "tares" are taken.

Luke 17:

[SUP]31 [/SUP]“In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Remember Lot’s wife. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. [SUP]34 [/SUP]I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”

[SUP]37 [/SUP]And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.


The ONE TAKEN is the Wicked. The Condemned. The Tare. Jesus uses the IDENTICAL analogy in Mat 13 concerning the wheat and tare in the field and that it is the wicked one to be taken:

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
[SUP]39 [/SUP]The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. [SUP]40 [/SUP]Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. [SUP]41 [/SUP]The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, [SUP]42 [/SUP]and will cast them into the furnace of fire.


The disciples asked: "Where (will the taken one be taken) Lord?
The Lord answered" (To the) body, (where the) eagles will be gathered.

As to where the WICKED are taken, we have the answer in Rev 19:

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, [SUP]18[/SUP]that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free[SUP][/SUP] and slave, both small and great.”

[SUP]19 [/SUP]And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Thus the wicked are literally taken to Armageddon or the Battle of Gog and Magog. It is the same battle which takes place in the Plains of Megiddo north of Jerusalem. The nations mentioned in Ezek 38 are all Muslim nations. They are being discussed here:

[SUP]8 [/SUP]After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely. [SUP]9 [/SUP]You will ascend, coming like a storm, covering the land like a cloud, you and all your troops and many peoples with you.”

Obviously those "Brought back from the sword gathered from many people" is the Jewish Nation. The fulfillment of this prophesy began 67 years ago.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws...

Please pay close attention to the countries mentioned because you will see them again:

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them...

They are being forcefully taken to the fight. They enter Israel and they also enter Saudi Arabia as we see here. Sheba and Dedan are in Saudi Arabia.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Sheba, Dedan, the merchants of Tarshish, and all their young lions will say to you, ‘Have you come to take plunder? Have you gathered your army to take booty, to carry away silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods, to take great plunder?’”’

Sheba and Dedan to the United States is ...">

If there was any doubt, it is cleared up here:

[SUP]16 [/SUP]You will come up against My people Israel like a cloud, to cover the land. It will be in the latter days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me, when I am hallowed in you, O Gog, before their eyes.”

So we have a massive army from the north, attacking the south and also entering Israel in the latter days. Sound familiar? It comes right out of Dan 11:

[SUP]41 [/SUP]He shall also enter the Glorious Land, and many countries shall be overthrown; but these shall escape from his hand: Edom, Moab, and the prominent people of Ammon. [SUP]42 [/SUP]He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. [SUP]43 [/SUP]He shall have power over the treasures of gold and silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt; also the Libyans and Ethiopians shall follow at his heels. [SUP]44 [/SUP]But news from the east and the north shall trouble him; therefore he shall go out with great fury to destroy and annihilate many.

The "HE" is the King of the NORTH, AKA, the Man of Sin, AKA the Beast from the EARTH, AKA the AntiChrist. This HE is spoken of in Rev 13 and He directs all Muslims to follow and serve the Beast from the Sea which is from the area north of Israel.

All of this deals with Muslim nations. They all follow ISLAM (in various ways). They all have been following the wrong God (Allah) and the wrong prophet (Muhammad). Again, who is captured in Rev 19?

the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet

And what becomes of those who have been serving the Beast, have taken his mark, or his name, or the number of his name? Back to Ezek 38:

[SUP]18 [/SUP]“And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” says the Lord God, “that My fury will show in My face. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken: ‘Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel, [SUP]20 [/SUP]so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence.

Notice the same reference to the birds of heaven again that we saw in Rev 19 and also Luke 17. All of this deals with the same events. We also have a great earthquake. What else do we have?

[SUP]22 [/SUP]And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.”’

So we have:

Great Earthquake
Pestilence and bloodshed (war)
Flooding rains
Great Hailstones
Fire and Brimstone


There are a lot of plagues mentioned in the bowls then we come to this in Rev 16:

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” [SUP]18 [/SUP]And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent.

All of this is targeted wrath against a specific people (MUSLIMS) in a specific part of the world - The MIDDLE EAST. The same Middle East where there has been trouble for thousands of years. Thus the WRATH OF GOD is not global and we need not be Raptured to be spared HIS wrath. We simply need to follow his instructions (Rev 18) and get out!!! of this area!!

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

GET OUT OF BABYLON before the judgment begins.

Jer 51:


[SUP]33 [/SUP]For thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel:
“The daughter of Babylon is like a threshing floor
When it is time to thresh her;
Yet a little while
And the time of her harvest will come.”

HARVEST? JUDGMENT? DAUGHTER of BABYLON?


[SUP]35 [/SUP]Let the violence done to me and my flesh be upon Babylon,”
The inhabitant of Zion will say;
“And my blood be upon the inhabitants of Chaldea!”
Jerusalem will say.

Where is Chaldea?



Same place as ISIS.

[SUP]40 [/SUP]“I will bring them down Like lambs to the slaughter, Like rams with male goats.

Bring down from the north to be slaughtered in Meggido. Here is the command to GET OUT again in Jer 51. It matches perfectly Rev 18.

[SUP]45 [/SUP]“My people, go out of the midst of her! And let everyone deliver himself from the fierce anger of the Lord.

Getting out of an area and flying off to heaven are completely different concepts. Here's why Babylon is NOT Jerusalem:

[SUP]47 [/SUP]Therefore behold, the days are coming That I will bring judgment on the carved images of Babylon; Her whole land shall be ashamed, And all her slain shall fall in her midst. [SUP]48 [/SUP]Then the heavens and the earth and all that is in them Shall sing joyously over Babylon; For the plunderers shall come to her from the north,” says the Lord.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]As Babylon has caused the slain of Israel to fall, So at Babylon the slain of all the earth shall fall. [SUP]50 [/SUP]You who have escaped the sword, Get away! Do not stand still! Remember the Lord afar off, And let Jerusalem come to your mind.


Get away? Do not stand still? Sounds a lot like this.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house.

Doesn't it?

[SUP]54 [/SUP]The sound of a cry comes from Babylon, And great destruction from the land of the Chaldeans, [SUP]55 [/SUP]Because the Lord is plundering Babylon
And silencing her loud voice..

Notice the destruction of Babylon comes from the North, from the area of the ancient Chaldeans. It is against the south (MECCA) Saudi Arabia and Israel.

So what is Babylon? Back to Jer 51:

[SUP]25 [/SUP]“Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain, Who destroys all the earth,” says the Lord. “And I will stretch out My hand against you, Roll you down from the rocks, And make you a burnt mountain.

A burnt mountain? Like this one?

Rev 8:

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

The Burning Mountain is ISLAM. The sea are Muslims as in "BEAST of the SEA!"

Back to Jer 51:

Prepare the nations against her, Call the kingdoms together against her: Ararat, Minni, and Ashkenaz. Appoint a general against her; Cause the horses to come up like the bristling locusts.

We all know where Ararat is. Horses like locusts? John gets a lot of imagry from Jeremiah.

Rev 9: [SUP]7 [/SUP]The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. [SUP]8 [/SUP]They had hair like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth.

Again, here's what the Lord does.[SUP]

33 [/SUP]And at that day the slain of the Lord shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground. We know where this happens.


Ezekiel 39:15

The search party will pass through the land; and when anyone sees a man’s bone, he shall set up a marker by it, till the buriers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon Gog.

He kills all of the Muslims, 100% of them. The KINGS of the EARTH (who have been following ISLAM) are identified here:

[SUP]20 [/SUP]all the mixed multitude, all the kings of the land of Uz, all the kings of the land of the Philistines (namely, Ashkelon, Gaza, Ekron, and the remnant of Ashdod); [SUP]21 [/SUP]Edom, Moab, and the people of Ammon; [SUP]22 [/SUP]all the kings of Tyre, all the kings of Sidon, and the kings of the coastlands which are across the sea; [SUP]23 [/SUP]Dedan, Tema, Buz, and all who are in the farthest corners; [SUP]24 [/SUP]all the kings of Arabia and all the kings of the mixed multitude (ARABS by definition) who dwell in the desert; [SUP]25 [/SUP]all the kings of Zimri, all the kings of Elam, and all the kings of the Medes; [SUP]26 [/SUP]all the kings of the north, far and near, one with another..

They have one thing in common, they are all Muslims. Stop looking of an European AntiChrist.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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154
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What you are doing is called a sky grab.

"where is that truck taking those children?"
"where sailboats are you will find water"
When we are grabbed to the sky {1Cor.15} where do we go from there. The many claim we are goin to heaven. Ive looked for the scripture that says that and i can not find a one. Could you tell me of even 1 scripture that says we are goin to heaven at the so called rapture event?
 
A

ATH1

Guest
When we are grabbed to the sky {1Cor.15} where do we go from there. The many claim we are goin to heaven. Ive looked for the scripture that says that and i can not find a one. Could you tell me of even 1 scripture that says we are goin to heaven at the so called rapture event?
Hi wall.
People here only seem to be trying to defend their church's position. whether or not it makes any sense does not seem to matter. I would like to find a site where people actual discuss their thoughts on what GOD means, not what the church doctrine states. But alas, there seems to be no such site.
God says in the bible, I do not do things in secret. But then these bible loving people say Jesus is coming secretly to take his saints out of the world.
If that be true, then why are we suppose to study prophesy and put the armor of God on if we are going to be taken out.

When Nebuchadnezzar looked into the firery furnace he seen the 3 men and Jesus all protected through the fire, they weren't taken out of the fire, Jesus protected them through the fire.
I believe in rev all those people taken out 1st are taken to satans camp, not Gods. In fact God is angry when he comes back and finds so many of his people in satans control.

allan
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
1,417
154
63
Hi wall.
People here only seem to be trying to defend their church's position. whether or not it makes any sense does not seem to matter. I would like to find a site where people actual discuss their thoughts on what GOD means, not what the church doctrine states. But alas, there seems to be no such site.
God says in the bible, I do not do things in secret. But then these bible loving people say Jesus is coming secretly to take his saints out of the world.
If that be true, then why are we suppose to study prophesy and put the armor of God on if we are going to be taken out.

When Nebuchadnezzar looked into the firery furnace he seen the 3 men and Jesus all protected through the fire, they weren't taken out of the fire, Jesus protected them through the fire.
I believe in rev all those people taken out 1st are taken to satans camp, not Gods. In fact God is angry when he comes back and finds so many of his people in satans control.

allan
Hey there ATH1
Yeah, the 1Cor15 event will not happen till after the trib period is over

Hey, i follow no church. Im hopin i belong to one thats built not with hands
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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When we are grabbed to the sky {1Cor.15} where do we go from there. The many claim we are going to heaven. I've looked for the scripture that says that and i can not find a one. Could you tell me of even 1 scripture that says we are going to heaven at the so called rapture event?
"Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words."

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. "

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God ; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. (John 14:1-3)


John 14:1-3 is Jesus' promise to his disciples and to all believers that he has gone to prepare places for us in His Father's house, which would be in heaven, so that where Jesus is we may be also. The first two scriptures above are how that is going to take place. I hope this clear things up.
 
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ATH1

Guest
Hey there ATH1
Yeah, the 1Cor15 event will not happen till after the trib period is over

Hey, i follow no church. Im hopin i belong to one thats built not with hands
That is me too. I study Gods word with God leading my reading.. All churches teach their doctrines. I have been to several different denominations and find them all lacking.

rev 2:9 and 3:9 tells us what God liked to be taught in church, and all the rest missed the boat. Not one pastor I asked knew what those 2 churches taught. lol.

I have studied a lot with the SC. They think exactly the way I believe, they are a line by line study of the entire bible and also teach we are going through the tribulation but with God protecting us like the 3 men in the furnace.

God bless you sir. Hope we can talk about things a bit.

humbly...allan
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
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"Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words."

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. "

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God ; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. (John 14:1-3)


John 14:1-3 is Jesus' promise to his disciples and to all believers that he has gone to prepare places for us in His Father's house, which would be in heaven, so that where Jesus is we may be also. The first two scriptures above are how that is going to take place. I hope this clear things up.

Not one of those scriptures flat dog come out and say Jesus will BRING us to heaven. However scripture below does say where He will bring us

JOHN 10 [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And OTHER SHEEP I HAVE, WHICH ARE NOT OF THIS FOLD: THEM ALSO I MUST BRING, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and ONE SHEPHERD.

I MUST BRING! Jesus said there were “others” not of the fold of the house of Israel. These “others” are the gentiles that hear His voice. Them also He will bring.... Bring where? Bring to heaven as the raptuist claim? Nope. At the time when Jesus does bring us we will have but ONE SHEPHERD.

EZEKIEL 37 [21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will GATHER THEM on every side, and BRING THEM INTO THEIR OWN LAND: [22]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:[FONT=&quot][23] Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. [24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have ONE SHEPHERD

Gathered to the kingdom. Then...one shepherd
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A

ATH1

Guest
Ahwatukee
According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left
will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words."

Amen and AMEN brother,
i'm standing up and feel the Lord coming in the room. Well said my friend. Last time I heard that was on the gaithers ist tape I think.
This happens at the last trump when Jesus comes back and in that instant all flesh is changed into its siritual body. This is at the end of the tribulation. Jesus comes in plain sight, not in secret. When Jesus comes back pinch yourself. If it hurts, its not Jesus calling you, its satans last act of defianice to snatch your soul.

Please remember, satan comes at the 6th trump, pretendidng to be Jesus and doing many wonerful things. This is what deceives so many to follow the 6th trump "christ" because theyd think since he is doing good things it must be Jesus not satan.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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Hello ATH1

This happens at the last trump when Jesus comes back and in that instant all flesh is changed into its spiritual body. This is at the end of the tribulation"

First, scripture states that at the time when Christ appears, the dead are going to resurrected, which means that, just as Christ resurrected in the same body that he was crucified in. When he appeared before his disciples behind locked doors they thought that he was a ghost, but then he proves to them that it is he himself by showing them his hands and his feet (nail marks) and then he tells them "It is me, for a spirit doesn't have flesh and bone as you see I have." That being said, those who are resurrected will also be in a body of flesh and bone, but with heavenly characteristics, just as the Lord had/has. It will be our same body redesigned with heavenly upgrades such as, immortality, it will be raised in power and will no longer have the sinful nature. That resurrected body will most likely also have super natural abilities that are just not mentioned in scripture. This resurrected body is referred to as a "spiritual body" but will also be corporeal, that is, tangible, made of flesh and bone, immortal, and with supernatural characteristics.

Those who are still here at the time that the resurrection takes place, since they are still alive will simply be transformed into those glorified bodies and will be caught up with those who will have just previously resurrected. It is interesting to note that the time in which the resurrection and our being caught up is described by the word "Atomos" translated as "a flash" which is defined as "not able to cut (divide) because too small to be measured." In other words, the time that the whole event takes place is so short, that it can't be divided. The whole event will be instantaneous.

This is at the end of the tribulation
According to scripture, I believe that the church will be removed prior to the entire seven period, that is, Jesus will descend and gather the dead and the living prior to the first seal being opened. Since Jesus is the One breaking the seals and opening the scroll and the results at the fourth seal is that a fourth of the earth's population will be killed, then this is also apart of God's wrath. For a fourth of the earth's population would equal approximately 1.7 billion fatalities based on the earth's current population of 7 billion people. I say this because there are those who would exclude the seals as being apart of God's wrath, but I believe that the announcement of wrath at the sixth seal includes the previous seals as well.

Please remember, Satan comes at the 6th trump, pretending to be Jesus and doing many wonderful things.
Regarding the above, I think you've got the wrong judgment in mind. For the 6th trumpet is the second woe, which is when those four angels who are held bound at the great Euphrates River are released and gather 200 million demonic beings to kill a third of mankind via fire, sulfur and smoke which comes from their mouths. So, I don't which judgment you were referring to when Satan comes pretending to be Jesus?