Hyper grace
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From your answers, you accept the law came to Paul as a Pharisee. But you say he did not know sin until he became a Christian. This is what Paul said happened when-as you accept the law came to him as a Pharisee:
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived,(sprang to life in the NIV) and I died.
Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
And you accept, the law came to Paul the Pharisee
But what I find most interesting is your view, that when Paul became a Christian and the Holy Spirit entered his life, and he then followed grace not law, you believe sin THEN through the law aroused all manner of concupiscence in Paul. In other words, once Paul became a Christian, died to a law of righteousness and the Holy Spirit entered his life he became full of corruption in the flesh, sin grew/flourished/ magnified in his life.
You therefore believe, Paul believed he was slain/condemned by sin as a Christian when he ceased to live under a law of righteousness
To me that is crazy, to you it makes perfect sense.
Let us leave it there, there is no possible hope of agreement
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived,(sprang to life in the NIV) and I died.
Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
And you accept, the law came to Paul the Pharisee
But what I find most interesting is your view, that when Paul became a Christian and the Holy Spirit entered his life, and he then followed grace not law, you believe sin THEN through the law aroused all manner of concupiscence in Paul. In other words, once Paul became a Christian, died to a law of righteousness and the Holy Spirit entered his life he became full of corruption in the flesh, sin grew/flourished/ magnified in his life.
You therefore believe, Paul believed he was slain/condemned by sin as a Christian when he ceased to live under a law of righteousness
To me that is crazy, to you it makes perfect sense.
Let us leave it there, there is no possible hope of agreement
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L
Thank you EG, I just type myself happy here sometimes as I'm reminded of how wonderful our salvation is. Typing to James57 has helped me pull from my mind the words I believe but don't have the opportunity to share. So it's a good thing and I'm thankful to James57.
My mind is one of repetition and although I've done the 'reputation' thing a few times some months ago I forgot how to do it again. But thank you for liking my post.
That blesses me!
E
Thank you EG, I just type myself happy here sometimes as I'm reminded of how wonderful our salvation is. Typing to James57 has helped me pull from my mind the words I believe but don't have the opportunity to share. So it's a good thing and I'm thankful to James57.
My mind is one of repetition and although I've done the 'reputation' thing a few times some months ago I forgot how to do it again. But thank you for liking my post. That blesses me!
My mind is one of repetition and although I've done the 'reputation' thing a few times some months ago I forgot how to do it again. But thank you for liking my post.
That blesses me!
Granted we may not always agree.. in all areas, But at least we have shared why we believe the way we do.
Please, I appreciate your response, I am grateful for that
In sincerity I would just say this
I hope you held the views you do before you came onto internet websites. I wouldn't want you to be swayed by people on them. I know ministers who believe Paul spoke ad a christian in verses 14-25 but NONE who believe he spoke of his life as a christian in verses 7-11
In sincerity I would just say this
I hope you held the views you do before you came onto internet websites. I wouldn't want you to be swayed by people on them. I know ministers who believe Paul spoke ad a christian in verses 14-25 but NONE who believe he spoke of his life as a christian in verses 7-11
L
I'm also reminded that the things that are in the Bible are written for our learning. They are there for a reason and the amazing thing about the Bible is we can read a verse and be wowed by it. Than some months later read that same verse or verses and be wowed in another way about it. The Bible is supernatural (when the HolySpirit is involved) in that it holds many truths even in one verse. The HolySpirit teaches us how to open the gift inside the gift inside the gift. So while the verse can mean one thing., it can also mean even more as it reveals more about Jesus and wisdom.
Unsaved people can read it and have a intellectual knowledge about it but when we Christians read it we have the HolySpirit showing us the meanings.
Why else would we be continually admonished to study to show ourselves approved unto God, to be workman that don't need to be ashamed as we rightly divide the Word of Truth?? There is just no way to exhaust the billions and trillions of truths there for us.,and the promises for us to claim as sons.
Unsaved people can read it and have a intellectual knowledge about it but when we Christians read it we have the HolySpirit showing us the meanings.
Why else would we be continually admonished to study to show ourselves approved unto God, to be workman that don't need to be ashamed as we rightly divide the Word of Truth?? There is just no way to exhaust the billions and trillions of truths there for us.,and the promises for us to claim as sons.
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L
I appreciate your concern for me James, really I do. But not to worry., the message of grace and truth that Jesus brought us is not something to fear but to embrace. It's the Good News. I have heard so many preachers and teachers in my time and have taken the hay and left the straw as they say. We should always be teachable and not fearful. For God has not given us the spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind. I truly rest in that promise and claim it daily.
Grace is not free it is conditional. Where did you get the idea following God was free?
The temple, sacrifices, faith, commandments, death, personal discipline, commitment, asking, finding.
Ask and it will be given to you, knock and the door will be opened.
You have got to ask and knock. If you hold grace is free you are a universalist, all are saved. It is not possible to say sanctification is irrelevant. Paul is so careful to say we need to stay believing, in faith, walking as a slave to Jesus.
Jesus talks about being worthy, staying prepared.
You have to be blind deaf and dumb to turn this gospel into free. John the baptist was sent to prepare the way, to preach repentance from sin and turning to the kingdom. Jesus brought the kingdom of heaven to earth.
You claim grace only doctrine people do not hold license, yet that is what Paul preached against in his letters and today we see people living and preaching today. To use the words no one is preaching license is simply not true. Now I accept there are legalists, who hold self justification is the way to heaven, but they are equally wrong.
Grace does not free a person from sin, the cross does and the love it represents and shows. To me the grace of God is to talk to sinners, to love us in our sin, to purchase us as a holy people, which we are called to become, which you are in denial about. Years ago I would not have talked like this, but now I see the door open. Emotions and internal turmoil are the things that hold the reality back, but you refuse to accept you are full of this chaos.
The temple, sacrifices, faith, commandments, death, personal discipline, commitment, asking, finding.
Ask and it will be given to you, knock and the door will be opened.
You have got to ask and knock. If you hold grace is free you are a universalist, all are saved. It is not possible to say sanctification is irrelevant. Paul is so careful to say we need to stay believing, in faith, walking as a slave to Jesus.
Jesus talks about being worthy, staying prepared.
You have to be blind deaf and dumb to turn this gospel into free. John the baptist was sent to prepare the way, to preach repentance from sin and turning to the kingdom. Jesus brought the kingdom of heaven to earth.
You claim grace only doctrine people do not hold license, yet that is what Paul preached against in his letters and today we see people living and preaching today. To use the words no one is preaching license is simply not true. Now I accept there are legalists, who hold self justification is the way to heaven, but they are equally wrong.
Grace does not free a person from sin, the cross does and the love it represents and shows. To me the grace of God is to talk to sinners, to love us in our sin, to purchase us as a holy people, which we are called to become, which you are in denial about. Years ago I would not have talked like this, but now I see the door open. Emotions and internal turmoil are the things that hold the reality back, but you refuse to accept you are full of this chaos.
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What is the sign of a person in trouble? Mention emotions and expression from the heart and they believe you are talking evil.
People use the verse out of the heart comes evil that pollutes the soul. But they fail to take the next step. This evil needs to be dealt with and faced or all christians are forever polluted and never righteous. This is hard talk, and I know your consciences condemn you over much in your life. But it is a lie that the Lord cannot straighten these things out. It is because you keep quiet about your struggles, and do not let others and reality in.
Jesus came for victory, real complete victory not a half baked faked victory which emotional praise just gives you a lift in between continual compromise and failure. That is what I am hearing from "christians" in the faith of 30+ years.
It suggests to me a lot has been missed in the process, and following Jesus is more than just being zapped and it will all pan out. It is not difficult to stay frozen and lost though while holding the precious gift as if it is being applied to your heart but always kept away from anything too serious.
Grace77x7 is keen to talk religion, but more than this, is probably too far.
People use the verse out of the heart comes evil that pollutes the soul. But they fail to take the next step. This evil needs to be dealt with and faced or all christians are forever polluted and never righteous. This is hard talk, and I know your consciences condemn you over much in your life. But it is a lie that the Lord cannot straighten these things out. It is because you keep quiet about your struggles, and do not let others and reality in.
Jesus came for victory, real complete victory not a half baked faked victory which emotional praise just gives you a lift in between continual compromise and failure. That is what I am hearing from "christians" in the faith of 30+ years.
It suggests to me a lot has been missed in the process, and following Jesus is more than just being zapped and it will all pan out. It is not difficult to stay frozen and lost though while holding the precious gift as if it is being applied to your heart but always kept away from anything too serious.
Grace77x7 is keen to talk religion, but more than this, is probably too far.
Jesus brings truth
I wonder what truth people are believing. We are sinners in need of a saviour? We need to walk in righteousness?
The commandments are a light unto my feet? Jesus is the light of the world, because he condemns the world of sin but raises the world of righteous holy living?
Jesus - Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect
So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
Romans 7:12
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.
Eph 5:3
To God’s holy people in Colossae, the faithful brothers and sisters in Christ: Grace and peace to you from God our Father.
Col 1:2
Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
Col 3:12
You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.
1 Thes 2:10
He has saved us and called us to a holy life
2 Tim 1:9
Rather, he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined.
Titus 1:8
This is not what I am hearing, not even close. So I would say you do not know your bibles or holiness as Paul and the apostles and Jesus preached.
I wonder what truth people are believing. We are sinners in need of a saviour? We need to walk in righteousness?
The commandments are a light unto my feet? Jesus is the light of the world, because he condemns the world of sin but raises the world of righteous holy living?
Jesus - Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect
So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
Romans 7:12
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.
Eph 5:3
To God’s holy people in Colossae, the faithful brothers and sisters in Christ: Grace and peace to you from God our Father.
Col 1:2
Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
Col 3:12
You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.
1 Thes 2:10
He has saved us and called us to a holy life
2 Tim 1:9
Rather, he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined.
Titus 1:8
This is not what I am hearing, not even close. So I would say you do not know your bibles or holiness as Paul and the apostles and Jesus preached.
L
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[TD="width: 100%, align: left"] 1 Peter 5:7
casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you. [/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"] It does not matter how tightly knit our families are or how many close friends we have. When we go through a difficult time or trial, many a time, we still feel all alone and that no one really cares or understands.
Martha knew that feeling. She had on one occasion cried out to Jesus, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to serve alone?” (Luke 10:40) Jesus’ disciples also knew what it was like to feel small, alone and in trouble. They cried out, “Teacher, do You not care that we are perishing?” when they were swept up in a terrifying storm. (Mark 4:38)
Today, maybe the cry of your heart is also, “Lord, do You not care that I am left all alone…that I am going under…that I am perishing?”
My friend, the Lord does care for you. He loves you so much that He wants you to cast all your cares upon Him—not just some but all your cares. He wants both your big and small cares. There is nothing too small or big for Him. If it is a care in your heart, He wants you to cast it upon Him.
When the apostle Peter wrote “casting all your care upon Him”, he was talking about the continuous act of casting all your cares upon the Lord. As a care comes, God wants you to cast it to Him. That is the lifestyle He wants you to adopt. Why? The verse gives us the reason—“for He cares for you”. You are casting all your cares upon the One who loves you, and who left all of heaven to come and die for you. That is who you are casting your cares to. It is not just any person, but it is the One who gave His life for you!
When you are going through a difficult time, God wants you to believe that you are never alone because He Himself has said that He will never leave you nor forsake you. (Hebrews 13:5) As the object of His care, He will take care of you for the rest of your life. You are never alone and always cared for!
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Taken from Destined To Reign Devotional.
[TR]
[TD="width: 14"][/TD]
[TD="width: 100%, align: left"] 1 Peter 5:7
casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"] It does not matter how tightly knit our families are or how many close friends we have. When we go through a difficult time or trial, many a time, we still feel all alone and that no one really cares or understands.
Martha knew that feeling. She had on one occasion cried out to Jesus, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to serve alone?” (Luke 10:40) Jesus’ disciples also knew what it was like to feel small, alone and in trouble. They cried out, “Teacher, do You not care that we are perishing?” when they were swept up in a terrifying storm. (Mark 4:38)
Today, maybe the cry of your heart is also, “Lord, do You not care that I am left all alone…that I am going under…that I am perishing?”
My friend, the Lord does care for you. He loves you so much that He wants you to cast all your cares upon Him—not just some but all your cares. He wants both your big and small cares. There is nothing too small or big for Him. If it is a care in your heart, He wants you to cast it upon Him.
When the apostle Peter wrote “casting all your care upon Him”, he was talking about the continuous act of casting all your cares upon the Lord. As a care comes, God wants you to cast it to Him. That is the lifestyle He wants you to adopt. Why? The verse gives us the reason—“for He cares for you”. You are casting all your cares upon the One who loves you, and who left all of heaven to come and die for you. That is who you are casting your cares to. It is not just any person, but it is the One who gave His life for you!
When you are going through a difficult time, God wants you to believe that you are never alone because He Himself has said that He will never leave you nor forsake you. (Hebrews 13:5) As the object of His care, He will take care of you for the rest of your life. You are never alone and always cared for!
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Taken from Destined To Reign Devotional.
Peter...no one is denying what the Christian life looks like in behavior. This is probably the 10th time I have spoken about this...I know others have told spoken to this as well...and most likely they will continue to speak about it too..
We do talk about how Christ is living in and through us to others all the time but in some cases we are constantly dealing with these "straw-men" first. We need to have the foundation built first. Growing in the knowledge and grace of Christ is our foundation!
The problem we have is trying to get some people over the hurtle of understanding acceptance grace. Acceptance grace is offensive, there is no doubt about it! It offends our sense of us "doing" something. The exact same way we came to Christ is the way we live our lives out in Him.
You keep throwing these "straw-man" up and then you attack them and then you say.."see..what these people think....they do think grace is a licence to sin....they do not know their bibles or holiness....their hearts are evil and they won't face it and if not all christians are forever polluted and never righteous. "
Peter in all honesty....when I see what you are talking about... I see you have a zeal for God but I seriously doubt whether you have really heard the gospel of the grace of Jesus Christ yet.
We do talk about how Christ is living in and through us to others all the time but in some cases we are constantly dealing with these "straw-men" first. We need to have the foundation built first. Growing in the knowledge and grace of Christ is our foundation!
The problem we have is trying to get some people over the hurtle of understanding acceptance grace. Acceptance grace is offensive, there is no doubt about it! It offends our sense of us "doing" something. The exact same way we came to Christ is the way we live our lives out in Him.
You keep throwing these "straw-man" up and then you attack them and then you say.."see..what these people think....they do think grace is a licence to sin....they do not know their bibles or holiness....their hearts are evil and they won't face it and if not all christians are forever polluted and never righteous. "
Peter in all honesty....when I see what you are talking about... I see you have a zeal for God but I seriously doubt whether you have really heard the gospel of the grace of Jesus Christ yet.
E
Grace means literally unmerited (unearned) favor. or mercy.
The tax collector got on his knees and begged for Gods mercy, Jesus said he went home justified. not the religious person who spent his life trying to earn Gods love by following rules and regulations.
if you think being like the Pharisee praising how good you are. while condemning the grace alone crowd as sinners. and praising God your not like them. you will get a rude surprise on that day.
The tax collector got on his knees and begged for Gods mercy, Jesus said he went home justified. not the religious person who spent his life trying to earn Gods love by following rules and regulations.
if you think being like the Pharisee praising how good you are. while condemning the grace alone crowd as sinners. and praising God your not like them. you will get a rude surprise on that day.