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well i remember watching an episode on the atheist experience and a woman rang up to say she has proof of god becuase he can do mircales and she said she had a lump near her breast and said she had cancer but was afraid to go to the doctor to get it checked out so she prayed to god to get rid of it and then it went away. now how stupid are to think you may have cancer but u dont go to the doctor to get it checked out to see even if it is cancer so the lump could of been anything not just that the human body does have the abilty to heal it self from cancer so you could be more stupid if you belive that anything that looks like a mircale is gods work
C
now how stupid are to think you may have cancer but u dont go to the doctor to get it checked out to see even if it is cancer so the lump could of been anything not just that the human body does have the abilty to heal it self from cancer so you could be more stupid if you belive that anything that looks like a mircale is gods work
so a person who believes God performs miracles is stupid??
so a person who believes God performs miracles is stupid??
well yes if you belive that everyting that happens the answer is god then you are in a sense. but what happened here was not a mircale, if a woman had no organs to produce eggs but she gets pregnant thats a miracle if some is told they may not be able to have children because there partner has a low sperm count if they have a child thats not a miracle becuase they still had a posibility to have a child the only way that something can truely be a mircale is that it had 0 chance of happening yet it happened and i havent heard anything like that happen
D
i think what zavok is getting at is that some religious people look for ways to relate god into their daily lives. This just shows that religious and non-religious people look at the world in a different light. If child is badly hit by a car and survives, then to a religious person it was gods work, but to an atheist the hit was just not hard enough or in the right way for it to be fatal.
i dont think it is stupid to believe god performed a miracle, i think it is a person attempting to reinforce their beliefs in god
S
I've been taking an informal poll based on the postings of atheists across the net. I've found that 97% of atheists are unconscionably rude, 93% are highly judgemental, 87% are arrogant, 92% are self-righteous, 98% have significant difficulty with spelling and grammar, 95% lack imagination, 74% are close-minded, 98% fail to challenge their own assumptions, 100% demand the highest standards of proof for God while offering the lowest standards of proof for their position, and 96% assume an air of intellectual superiority without it being in evidence.
The first stage of "intellectualism" is to challenge your own assumptions, something every Christian does before coming to Christ, and is often challenged with throughout their walk with Christ. Many Christians, having taken the journey and found the answers they sought try to engage atheists in love, but find they are trying to describe the color blue to a blind man. In the meantime, they are subjected to a level of snarkiness that speaks volumes as to the nature of said atheists.
I admire those Christians that engage but the battle is spiritual. Many of these people aren't seeking truth; they are unwitting dupes who cut and paste arguments from google and seek to demean what they can't understand. Atheism and its proponents have butchered more people this century than all the so-called religious wars in history combined. They have the cultural voice of the country through domination of the communication's media and fancy themselves caring people by making useless demonstrations of "compassion." Particularly if they can do it with other peoples money and control the distribution of the largesse. These people have always existed and always will, until He returns.
And by the way, I'm not referring to non-believers or people who don't know...we've all been there; I'm referring to those who who take a perverse pleasure in seeking out Christians because they know it's a gentle religion. I strongly suspect most of them wouldn't go to Muslim websites to spew their invective because Muslims won't wait for God's judgement...so atheists, put your money where your mouth is and show your "brave" intellectual stance on Muslim websites. And don't take the "I don't want to offend Muslim sensibilities" line because you've shown no concern for offending Christians, probably because they keep saying that Name you find so offensive.
It is just as He said it would be, and I still find it incredible as I watch prophecy play out.
The first stage of "intellectualism" is to challenge your own assumptions, something every Christian does before coming to Christ, and is often challenged with throughout their walk with Christ. Many Christians, having taken the journey and found the answers they sought try to engage atheists in love, but find they are trying to describe the color blue to a blind man. In the meantime, they are subjected to a level of snarkiness that speaks volumes as to the nature of said atheists.
I admire those Christians that engage but the battle is spiritual. Many of these people aren't seeking truth; they are unwitting dupes who cut and paste arguments from google and seek to demean what they can't understand. Atheism and its proponents have butchered more people this century than all the so-called religious wars in history combined. They have the cultural voice of the country through domination of the communication's media and fancy themselves caring people by making useless demonstrations of "compassion." Particularly if they can do it with other peoples money and control the distribution of the largesse. These people have always existed and always will, until He returns.
And by the way, I'm not referring to non-believers or people who don't know...we've all been there; I'm referring to those who who take a perverse pleasure in seeking out Christians because they know it's a gentle religion. I strongly suspect most of them wouldn't go to Muslim websites to spew their invective because Muslims won't wait for God's judgement...so atheists, put your money where your mouth is and show your "brave" intellectual stance on Muslim websites. And don't take the "I don't want to offend Muslim sensibilities" line because you've shown no concern for offending Christians, probably because they keep saying that Name you find so offensive.
It is just as He said it would be, and I still find it incredible as I watch prophecy play out.
ok so show your "poll" if you done one put it on a website that requires you to have evidence to show you have done a true poll and not a made up one and post the link and you saying "muslims wont wait for gods judgment" are basically saying that all muslims will kill someone who insults them im sorry but i find you rude and highly judgemental
thats what im getting at it which may lower an iq score plus some christians belive dionsaurs dont exist and some belive the earth is about 6000 years old and if there related question on an iq test that would lower there iq score. which would make people seem stupid and how does that relate to the woman i was talking about simple heres a question " name a way to cure cancer" now if you answer was surgery and cemo theropy youll be right but i dont think praying counts so you would be wrong
S
You're not very old, are you Zavoc? You start a thread called "are religious people stupid, thieves, or murderers" and you think I'm rude and judgemental. Actually, I am judgemental because Christians are called to judgement. Judgement is the beginning of wisdom.
Not all muslim's would kill you...only the muslim's that follow the teaching. Apparently you don't follow the news. I've been to muslim countries, but don't take my word for it. Go to a muslim country and start a conversation at a coffee shop about...hmmm...how about "are muslims stupid, thieves, or murderers" and let me know how that works out for ya. Or just post a cartoon...that got a few hundred innocent people killed.
Your point is a back-handed swipe at Christians and that's fine. I'm sure some Christian somewhere fell short of your expectations so you feel very righteous in your views. What I find interesting is the need for some folks to denigrate pretty much only Christians, and why that is so. You certainly get offended very easily so one might think you consider yourself innocent of giving offense. You probably wouldn't dream of posting the same thread only substituting the word religious with "black" or "women" or "muslim" or "gay," and are probably indignantly self-righteous were someone to post that pap, but here you are on a Christian website asking Christians if they think they are stupid thieves and murderers. Are you seeking truth? Even if it "offends" you?
My "poll" was attempting to make a point, just like the poll you cited. My poll is as valid as yours and is more on point. You apparently take exception to the findings. Which of the points I cover do you think doesn't represent you? Remember, I didn't go to an atheist website looking to insult anyone; I'm answering someone who came to a Christian website looking to insult some very nice people who've done no harm to you. I'm not trying to shame you...that would be pointless. I'm not trying to change your heart...that's in God's hands. I'm just shining a light.
If you came as a simple non-believer seeking to understand why people believe I'd be happy to discuss with you. If you come hinting that believing is tantamount to stupidity or evil, I'll engage you but not under the misguided premise you started. You have an agenda, flimsy as it is, and a pre-conceived notion you're pushing. You're the one that has something to prove and a cut and paste doesn't cut it. Take some classes on logic and you'll find there are at least three logical fallacies in the poll you posted. That poll is designed to snag the uneducated (or more properly miseducated) and is about worthless. So I don't have to do all the thinking in this discussion, instead of me telling you the fallacies why don't you look up logic and rhetoric and see if you can identify the fallacies?
Not all muslim's would kill you...only the muslim's that follow the teaching. Apparently you don't follow the news. I've been to muslim countries, but don't take my word for it. Go to a muslim country and start a conversation at a coffee shop about...hmmm...how about "are muslims stupid, thieves, or murderers" and let me know how that works out for ya. Or just post a cartoon...that got a few hundred innocent people killed.
Your point is a back-handed swipe at Christians and that's fine. I'm sure some Christian somewhere fell short of your expectations so you feel very righteous in your views. What I find interesting is the need for some folks to denigrate pretty much only Christians, and why that is so. You certainly get offended very easily so one might think you consider yourself innocent of giving offense. You probably wouldn't dream of posting the same thread only substituting the word religious with "black" or "women" or "muslim" or "gay," and are probably indignantly self-righteous were someone to post that pap, but here you are on a Christian website asking Christians if they think they are stupid thieves and murderers. Are you seeking truth? Even if it "offends" you?
My "poll" was attempting to make a point, just like the poll you cited. My poll is as valid as yours and is more on point. You apparently take exception to the findings. Which of the points I cover do you think doesn't represent you? Remember, I didn't go to an atheist website looking to insult anyone; I'm answering someone who came to a Christian website looking to insult some very nice people who've done no harm to you. I'm not trying to shame you...that would be pointless. I'm not trying to change your heart...that's in God's hands. I'm just shining a light.
If you came as a simple non-believer seeking to understand why people believe I'd be happy to discuss with you. If you come hinting that believing is tantamount to stupidity or evil, I'll engage you but not under the misguided premise you started. You have an agenda, flimsy as it is, and a pre-conceived notion you're pushing. You're the one that has something to prove and a cut and paste doesn't cut it. Take some classes on logic and you'll find there are at least three logical fallacies in the poll you posted. That poll is designed to snag the uneducated (or more properly miseducated) and is about worthless. So I don't have to do all the thinking in this discussion, instead of me telling you the fallacies why don't you look up logic and rhetoric and see if you can identify the fallacies?
if you look i didnt post the poll your the one who gave the impression that all muslim are bad and i havent insulted anyone i suggest you go to page one and see who started it before you start accusing me and at least when i make a point i say some and not just the word "christians" or " muslims" or "gays" etc becuase i know not every 1 is the same just because they are a apart of something unlike you who just generlise people becuase of what that are to me (in my opinion) you belive all atheist belive that there are differently no gods and they belive in evolution and the big bang now i will tell you now that, that is not true. and what has my age got to do with anything age has f all to do with anything in my view
and if i was on here insulting everyone take a look at my thread if relgion didnt exist there will be no wars here i ask christian what are there views on this theory out of curisoty as this you can say i guess an atheist saying and i said in my view that this theory is bs yes there may be less wars but no wars no cos wars can be more than just about relgion like land and money
S
Zavoc, sorry if I upset you. I don't have a problem with atheists per se; I was one at a point in my life. In fact, most Christians (even those raised in the faith) go through a period of questioning and doubting. It's normal and actually necessary to developing personal faith for many. For instance, my father could have been a devout Christian (he wasn't) but his faith wouldn't save me. I need my own. Faith isn't blind, it doesn't come because somebody convinces you with smooth words. Nor is it shutting off the brain that gets you to faith. When I was in my Godless phase, it wasn't because I knew too much...it was because I knew nothing and understood less. I didn't know that...it was part of my ignorance. I spoke with great authority on things I knew nothing about. Like many atheists, I felt this compelling need to challenge Christians to show them how smart I was. It was part of my search for faith, even though I didn't know it.
Understand this: Once you become Christian you realize all atheists are lost, but can be found. Redemption is already bought and paid for. I've read some of your other posts on other threads...your poem for instance. It would take hours to explain how fundamentally you've missed the point, even as I did. The day it was revealed to me I couldn't believe how stupid I'd been, couldn't see it before even though it was staring me in the face. I was reading the bible looking for ammo to make arguments with and POW, there it was. All those "contradictions?" There weren't any, I just didn't understand. It was a seamless document, consistent throughout. It hit me how deceived I had been and for awhile I was angry; first at all the people who planted garbage in my brain, and then at myself for not using my own mind and seeking the truth.
Christianity isn't religion...it isn't like anything else at all. Sure, there are other faiths and I've studied them. Read the Koran, the Suras and Hadiths, Buddhism, Shintoism, even the Tao. Read up on Wicca, even looked at some of the quasi-Christian offshoots (I won't name them). So what is Christianity if it isn't religion? It is truth...uncomfortable truth. So easy, and yet so hard. It makes us slaves to righteousness, yet frees us completely. It can't be forced on anyone...it has to be embraced.
What if I told you everything you think you know about Christianity is wrong? Would that offend you? What if I told you that you are serving God's plan without even knowing it? Would that make you angry? Why are you here? Why would an atheist waste his time on trivial mumbo-jumbo unless...
Ask yourself this...what makes Christ so offensive? He said it would be this way, but it doesn't make a lot of sense on a non-spiritual level. My human side could care less what people believe. To each their own. My Christian, spiritual side knows this is a battle and watching passively isn't what we're called to do. So why are you here? Are you looking for the truth? This isn't the right place; read the word, pray for understanding, ask questions and if it doesn't open when you knock, then go with my blessing. But if you're just taking the role of a spoiler, just one of the dead who hates the living why bother coming here? There is a whole world of depravity you could lose yourself in. There's drugs, alcohol, sex, materialism, and good ol' rock and roll! Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you die. You can enjoy "life," and look down at all those backward, ignorant Christians who are missing out on all the fun...but...on the last day, when you're lying there waiting for the end and reflecting on your life, I don't think you'll wonder if you partied enough, or drank enough...you might wonder if you loved enough. You might wonder why you were here at all.
Life takes us strange places, and none is stranger than an atheist hanging out in Christian chat. But maybe this is where you need to be, maybe you're trying to find something to fill that empty spot made for something special. That little nagging that stays there no matter what you try to fill it with, because it's made for one thing. Is that it Zavoc? Is there more to you than meets the eye? I promise you, God thinks so and is trying to move you but it could cost you cool points.
Fish or cut bait.
Understand this: Once you become Christian you realize all atheists are lost, but can be found. Redemption is already bought and paid for. I've read some of your other posts on other threads...your poem for instance. It would take hours to explain how fundamentally you've missed the point, even as I did. The day it was revealed to me I couldn't believe how stupid I'd been, couldn't see it before even though it was staring me in the face. I was reading the bible looking for ammo to make arguments with and POW, there it was. All those "contradictions?" There weren't any, I just didn't understand. It was a seamless document, consistent throughout. It hit me how deceived I had been and for awhile I was angry; first at all the people who planted garbage in my brain, and then at myself for not using my own mind and seeking the truth.
Christianity isn't religion...it isn't like anything else at all. Sure, there are other faiths and I've studied them. Read the Koran, the Suras and Hadiths, Buddhism, Shintoism, even the Tao. Read up on Wicca, even looked at some of the quasi-Christian offshoots (I won't name them). So what is Christianity if it isn't religion? It is truth...uncomfortable truth. So easy, and yet so hard. It makes us slaves to righteousness, yet frees us completely. It can't be forced on anyone...it has to be embraced.
What if I told you everything you think you know about Christianity is wrong? Would that offend you? What if I told you that you are serving God's plan without even knowing it? Would that make you angry? Why are you here? Why would an atheist waste his time on trivial mumbo-jumbo unless...
Ask yourself this...what makes Christ so offensive? He said it would be this way, but it doesn't make a lot of sense on a non-spiritual level. My human side could care less what people believe. To each their own. My Christian, spiritual side knows this is a battle and watching passively isn't what we're called to do. So why are you here? Are you looking for the truth? This isn't the right place; read the word, pray for understanding, ask questions and if it doesn't open when you knock, then go with my blessing. But if you're just taking the role of a spoiler, just one of the dead who hates the living why bother coming here? There is a whole world of depravity you could lose yourself in. There's drugs, alcohol, sex, materialism, and good ol' rock and roll! Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you die. You can enjoy "life," and look down at all those backward, ignorant Christians who are missing out on all the fun...but...on the last day, when you're lying there waiting for the end and reflecting on your life, I don't think you'll wonder if you partied enough, or drank enough...you might wonder if you loved enough. You might wonder why you were here at all.
Life takes us strange places, and none is stranger than an atheist hanging out in Christian chat. But maybe this is where you need to be, maybe you're trying to find something to fill that empty spot made for something special. That little nagging that stays there no matter what you try to fill it with, because it's made for one thing. Is that it Zavoc? Is there more to you than meets the eye? I promise you, God thinks so and is trying to move you but it could cost you cool points.
Fish or cut bait.
im here becuase i like talking to different people i like debating i can gain knowledge on how people act here i say that on my what i belive post. im aslo here to show people that atheist belive in different things and not the same things which is a common misconception. im am to show my views and try and let people understand my side as i try and understand their side people work better when they understand their difference plus going on chatrooms like this helps me, (yes i can on other cultral and social chat rooms just becacuse im here thinks its the only place i go) i am a shy person and have trouble writing and undertsanding due to my dyslexicia and going on chatrooms and fourms help me a little. and plus the things u have been saying havent offended me they angered my yes but not on my own personal level but saying your theory that im on here makes no sense i must be searching for god now your being closed minded i dont not need god in my life if god came down now and showed himself to me i will not accepted him becuase i do not and never will see him as a good being i will not bow down to him. i have my own path and goals in life i know what right and wrong are i know what love is you dont need good to show you these things there are already a part of you.
i have not had an easy life i see people storys in life saying what happen to them and how god saved them and then i looked at myself and think ive been through quite alot why have i never gone to god i as atheist use to go to chrisitan gatherings with my friends so i know about religion but why did i not turn to god well that answer is easy i can stand on my own two feet and i can do this becuase i belive in who i am that simple. and when im on my death bed these will be my thoughts "and adventure into the unknown awaits"
now to the things that did offended me: if you have read my post you notice my name is zavok not zavoc. o to you asking if i loved enough which im guessing you mean in loving you fellow human being this is my love "i love everyone not matter who they are or what that did i love them that i will sacrifice my own life for them if a time like that shall ever come." basically ill risk my own life for a murderer wether i knew there were or not why becuase if i let them die what does that make me.
i have not had an easy life i see people storys in life saying what happen to them and how god saved them and then i looked at myself and think ive been through quite alot why have i never gone to god i as atheist use to go to chrisitan gatherings with my friends so i know about religion but why did i not turn to god well that answer is easy i can stand on my own two feet and i can do this becuase i belive in who i am that simple. and when im on my death bed these will be my thoughts "and adventure into the unknown awaits"
now to the things that did offended me: if you have read my post you notice my name is zavok not zavoc. o to you asking if i loved enough which im guessing you mean in loving you fellow human being this is my love "i love everyone not matter who they are or what that did i love them that i will sacrifice my own life for them if a time like that shall ever come." basically ill risk my own life for a murderer wether i knew there were or not why becuase if i let them die what does that make me.
S
Zavok with a K (not C): The name mistake offended you?
So it's a pride issue. You don't need God to stand on your own two feet, and even if He proved himself to you, you still wouldn't bow down before Him. Pride over truth. Got it. Sorry to hear that. Sort of like the eighteen year old living at home with mom and dad, eating their food, dependent on them but saying "you can't tell me what to do, I'm an adult." You get to be your own God, answerable only to yourself. Well, it's the oldest sin in the book which just goes to show you man hasn't changed much since the beginning of time. It was also Lucifer's sin.
I have to give you credit though, most atheists don't come right out with it; they prefer to dress it up in pseudo-intellectualism. You nailed it dead on.
Everyone finds their purpose in life; yours is you. Nice touch about the dying for a murderer though. Almost Christ-like. Almost.
I don't think this has been a debate though. If I'm understanding you, you don't care about whether God exists, if he has a plan for you, if Christ's sacrifice meant anything, if you mean anything to anyone but yourself. It's just a rebellion thing. Got it.
No search for truth or meaning, just killing time, improving a few writing skills, nothing deeper. Your minds made up, you've chosen a side, and you're happy and contented just "debating" in chat rooms. Ah Zavok, I'm sorry. I love you my friend and will pray for you. I pray I haven't done anything to make you stumble further, pray your life gets easier, pray you overcome your dyslexia, pray you find happiness and contentment, in Jesus name. Amen
Jesus died for you also my friend, whether you care or not. Rebellion is a spirit of youth, I pray it doesn't become your life long advocation. Your redemption was paid for, and if you change your mind as you get older the ticket is waiting...just call on Him.
I'm off to bed...back to work tomorrow!
So it's a pride issue. You don't need God to stand on your own two feet, and even if He proved himself to you, you still wouldn't bow down before Him. Pride over truth. Got it. Sorry to hear that. Sort of like the eighteen year old living at home with mom and dad, eating their food, dependent on them but saying "you can't tell me what to do, I'm an adult." You get to be your own God, answerable only to yourself. Well, it's the oldest sin in the book which just goes to show you man hasn't changed much since the beginning of time. It was also Lucifer's sin.
I have to give you credit though, most atheists don't come right out with it; they prefer to dress it up in pseudo-intellectualism. You nailed it dead on.
Everyone finds their purpose in life; yours is you. Nice touch about the dying for a murderer though. Almost Christ-like. Almost.
I don't think this has been a debate though. If I'm understanding you, you don't care about whether God exists, if he has a plan for you, if Christ's sacrifice meant anything, if you mean anything to anyone but yourself. It's just a rebellion thing. Got it.
No search for truth or meaning, just killing time, improving a few writing skills, nothing deeper. Your minds made up, you've chosen a side, and you're happy and contented just "debating" in chat rooms. Ah Zavok, I'm sorry. I love you my friend and will pray for you. I pray I haven't done anything to make you stumble further, pray your life gets easier, pray you overcome your dyslexia, pray you find happiness and contentment, in Jesus name. Amen
Jesus died for you also my friend, whether you care or not. Rebellion is a spirit of youth, I pray it doesn't become your life long advocation. Your redemption was paid for, and if you change your mind as you get older the ticket is waiting...just call on Him.
I'm off to bed...back to work tomorrow!
i love you make the assumption that im spoil which is far from it im at university and i got there by myself with out my mothers or fathers help if god has a plan then whats the point in you talking to me or doing anything for that matter if god has a plan for everyone then no one is free to do what they want and saying god has a plan for everyone means all the murders and evil doings in the world are gods fault. way to go god.
and the reason spelling my name wrong offends me is becuase you have no excuse to spell it wrong when its right infront of you but by the looks of it you seem to have trouble seeing so i think you should get your eyes checked (im being serious btw)
yer i guess in a sense i am rebellion against why is a simple case of my mother telling me to do the washing and me not wanting to no its more like why would i follow a book that has been edited through out time so its not even the book of god anymore its more like the book of man why would i follow a book that tells me to do evil things and says doing this is wrong when clearly its not and tells you to do things which are morally wrong (have slaves) and there are some many branches of christanity why are there branches for a start if the book was right and clear there would only be one but there isnt which does beg the question why do people bother and that question has only been partly answered so far
at the end of the day if god was a really true loveing careing being it shouldnt matter what we whorship or what we follow or what we do aslong as we have a good kind life towards eachother and if thats not good enough for it then it can get stuffed
and the reason spelling my name wrong offends me is becuase you have no excuse to spell it wrong when its right infront of you but by the looks of it you seem to have trouble seeing so i think you should get your eyes checked (im being serious btw)
yer i guess in a sense i am rebellion against why is a simple case of my mother telling me to do the washing and me not wanting to no its more like why would i follow a book that has been edited through out time so its not even the book of god anymore its more like the book of man why would i follow a book that tells me to do evil things and says doing this is wrong when clearly its not and tells you to do things which are morally wrong (have slaves) and there are some many branches of christanity why are there branches for a start if the book was right and clear there would only be one but there isnt which does beg the question why do people bother and that question has only been partly answered so far
at the end of the day if god was a really true loveing careing being it shouldnt matter what we whorship or what we follow or what we do aslong as we have a good kind life towards eachother and if thats not good enough for it then it can get stuffed
D
the title of the thread was purely to get attention. And to be honest i dont have an agenda or anything like that its on the basis that i found the chart interesting, and i have read another article before seeing the chart which spoke about IQ and religiousness, maybe ill post it if i find the magazine.
I dont wish to go to a battle with you, which is why i have not been posting in this thread very often.
as it is the poll seems to attack religion. or does it? it just takes the numbers given and puts them in a chart, but i think the colour coded rectangles may be bit of a low blow, but overall it just gives info and no opinion it is up to us to do the analysis
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