The Immaculate Conception Error

[Roberth]

"physical death is the separation of the human soul from the physical body"

This is a self-righteous statement.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is a self-righteous statement.

Please explain. That is a prety crazy accusation. so can you share how it is self righteous? What law am I following, or what good am I doing according to that statement?

 

[Roberth]

What law am I following, or what good am I doing according to that statement?

Here's what you said: "physical death is the separation of the human soul from the physical body"

What happens to the body?

What happens to the soul?

 

[Roberth]

I don't need to because I never stated the above.

Here's what I said: "He was made spiritually alive at the incarnation. If not, He would have sinned...."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here's what you said: "physical death is the separation of the human soul from the physical body"

the moment you are dead physically. Your soul or spirit departs from the body, they are no longer together, they are separated

What happens to the body?

It will eventually return to dust

What happens to the soul?

depends on your state at physical death, It departs the body (seperates from the body,) and goes to eternity. either spiritually alive, or spiritually dead.

 

[Cassian]

Roberth,

Here's what I said: "He was made spiritually alive at the incarnation. If not, He would have sinned...."

which makes no sense. The definition of a believer is that he is spiritually alive. Thus all believers cannot sin.

You will need to flesh this out since I have no idea what that statement might even mean from your view.

 

[onlinebuddy]

btw I do not mean the religious Puranas like the Vedas and the Upanisads but the old and ancient nearly lost Indian philosophy now so well researched and restored by Dr.Paul Brunton - wincam

I'm not interested in the Vedas and Upanishads. Those get quoted every now and then in Indian literature and media. Also, I did not read Paul Brunton. I'm don't spend much time on human philosophy; maybe when I have some more time.

 

[onlinebuddy]

again you are mistaken - we really do not have choice either - a little study and reflection should have revealed this in the major factors in our lives - we did not choose when and where we where born nor to whom - what country what family what religion, skin colour, male or female, handsome or ugly, able or disabled, dull or genius, etc, etc. and yet some will still persist and insist we have choice - wincam

we really do not have choice either

You mean we are robots that are programmed to do only evil? Who then is responsible when we break the commands of God? Adam, God or Us?

a little study and reflection should have revealed this in the major factors in our lives -

My Bible Study tells me that God expects us to shun evil and do what is right(and that does not amount to being "self righteous"), because he as given us a free will.

we did not choose when and where we where born nor to whom - what country what family what religion, skin colour, male or female, handsome or ugly, able or disabled, dull or genius, etc, etc. and yet some will still persist and insist we have choice -

God has not given us a choice in all the above-mentioned areas. Skin color, gender, looks, intellect, etc are not salvation issues. However, your faith and your choices determine your relationship with God and determine your eternity.

If man did not have a free will, how come Abel did something good that made God look upon him with favor? Without freewill there would be no virtue in the world.

If man did not have a free will, how come God expected Cain to do what is right, and rule over sin? If man is so tainted and morally depraved as a result of Adam's sin, how come God held Cain responsible for his lack of faith? How come God punished Cain for his sin of murder?

 

[onlinebuddy]

btw we do not choose we are chosen - even salvation is a gift given to whomsoever for can the pot demand of the potter why has thou made me thus and not so - often referred to in other cultures as the heaven born - wincam

Whenever the Bible says we are chosen, it does not mean that some are chosen to be saved while others are left out to be doomed. This view is not consistent with scripture. That's a sorry picture of our awesome and just God!
God gives every soul an equal opportunity to respond to his love and to the message of Christ. No one is predestined to be doomed, as God wants all men to come to the knowledge of the truth and to repent and to be saved. (1 Tim 2:3-4, 2 Pet 3:9)

God's love is unconditional, but salvation is conditional. Salvation comes by grace and through faith; not by predestination, although God foreknows who will repent and accept Christ and be saved.

for can the pot demand of the potter why has thou made me thus and not so - often referred to in other cultures as the heaven born

Let us not present God as an Illogical person who whimsically does whatever He wants and expects us to silently bear under it without questioning him.
This entire chapter has been misinterpreted by many. It is important to refer to the context of this chapter before attempting to interpret it, lest we go off the truth, as many have.

I'll write more later.
Meanwhile, blessings to you!

 

[wincam]

Whenever the Bible says we are chosen, it does not mean that some are chosen to be saved while others are left out to be doomed. This view is not consistent with scripture. That's a sorry picture of our awesome and just God!
God gives every soul an equal opportunity to respond to his love and to the message of Christ. No one is predestined to be doomed, as God wants all men to come to the knowledge of the truth and to repent and to be saved. (1 Tim 2:3-4, 2 Pet 3:9)

God's love is unconditional, but salvation is conditional. Salvation comes by grace and through faith; not by predestination, although God foreknows who will repent and accept Christ and be saved.

Let us not present God as an Illogical person who whimsically does whatever He wants and expects us to silently bear under it without questioning him.
This entire chapter has been misinterpreted by many. It is important to refer to the context of this chapter before attempting to interpret it, lest we go off the truth, as many have.

I'll write more later.
Meanwhile, blessings to you!

it is still not understood or accepted that outside of Christianity there is no salvation - for broad is the wrong road/s but narrow is the right road or the way and hence it behoves us to urgently acquaint others with the good news of Christianity - wincam

 

[Euphemia]

This is a self-righteous statement.

Actually, it is a true statement. Physical death only occurs when the spirit and soul vacate the body.


.

 

[Roberth]

Roberth,

which makes no sense. The definition of a believer is that he is spiritually alive. Thus all believers cannot sin.

What are you talking about? I'm speaking of Christ.....

 

[Roberth]

It (the soul) departs the body (seperates from the body,) and goes to eternity. either spiritually alive, or spiritually dead.

That's a self-righteous statement.

What part of you is holy that it goes to the Lord on its own steam without the resurrection?

 

[Cassian]

Roberth,

What are you talking about? I speaking of Christ.....

I know which is why it makes no sense.

What I stated was what scripture defines as a believer, one who was given spiritual life. It refers to the relationship between God and that believer.

That is why I asked you to explain your statement because it makes no sense to me and surely not to scripture as scripture defines the term.

 

[Roberth]

Roberth,
I want you to explain just what it means that Christ was dead spiritually and that He arose from the grave spiritually.

This is what I answered....Back to discussion

 

[Roberth]

That's a self-righteous statement.

What part of you is holy that it goes to the Lord on its own steam without the resurrection?

May I remind you of what the Apostle Paul stated?

For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh....Rom 7:18

 

[Grace777x70]

Romans 7:16-18 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

Romans 7:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

 

[Cassian]

This is what I answered....Back to discussion

What did you answer? I don't see an explanation of your statement which is under discussion.

Here is your statement

Here's what I said: "He was made spiritually alive at the incarnation. If not, He would have sinned...."

just what does that even mean.

 

[onlinebuddy]

it is still not understood or accepted that outside of Christianity there is no salvation - for broad is the wrong road/s but narrow is the right road or the way and hence it behoves us to urgently acquaint others with the good news of Christianity - wincam

Agree. But what does this have to do with the topic we were discussing?

 

[Roberth]

just what does that even mean.

Again:

Eph 2:5 "even when we were dead in trespasses, (God) made us (our corporate life) alive together with Christ"....

What does Paul mean by dead in trespasses? See verse 3: "fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind".

Note that in the spiritually dead the mind and flesh are in harmony.

"In Christ" our shared humanity from Adam was made spiritually alive. Christ is the 2nd Adam, therefore He is our corporate man. Hence He was made spiritually alive at the incarnation. If not, He would have sinned as we do....

Also read Col 2:13

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He (God) has made (you, the life we share with Adam) alive together with Him (Christ)