Hyper grace

[james57]

Is the law of righteousness not the law?

If a person seeks to attain heaven by observing the la we they are under a law of righteousness as I am sure everyone apart from you apparantly realises

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If a person seeks to attain heaven by observing the la we they are under a law of righteousness as I am sure everyone apart from you apparantly realises

Then just say the law. It will save you typing and not create doubts that you have something else in mind than the law of Moses.

 

[james57]

Then just say the law. It will save you typing and not create doubts that you have something else in mind than the law of Moses.

You have proved my post correct, thank you. Your continue evasion and deflection from a question I asked three times prove it
Thank you again

 

[james57]

I responded to an altar call when I was young and set out on the christian path. What I didn't know then was, I tried to attain heaven EXACTLY as Paul the Pharisee did. Do you understand that? I was in earnest not to commit sin in order to attain heaven. Again I couldn't at that age relate it to law keeping or much more, for i understood little. But i was determined to live a pure and holy life for God.
The first thing I noticed was I became sin conscious. On the outside I could appear to be the perfect christian, but in the inside I started to become heavy and depressed because I knew on the inside I could not be sinless. My personality became affected, I wasn't such a nice person anymore because of the inner turmoil. I had no peace, whereas before I became a christian I did have peace. Sin grew in me at a rapid rate. In a sense I was dying.
Now I know of grace I can look back at that time and see clearly concerning it. How should i describe that tine of my life when I in reality tried to attain heaven as a Pharisee? How could I now rooted in the christian faith describe it?

I hadn't known sin before the law came to me. I hadn't known lust before the commandment/ law came to me. But through knowledge of the law or commandment all manner of concupiscence was aroused in me.


I had felt alive before the law came to me, but when it did come sin( consciousness) sprang to life in me and i died. The commandment that was ordained( in my view) to give me life( if i obeyed it) instead brought death( for i could not keep it)
Sin through the law had slew me
However I know there wad nothing wrong with Gods good and holy laws, the problem was my sin

Like I say, at the time I did not know this/ I could not have reasoned or seen that was what happened. But now as a christian looking back on my past when I tried to attain heaven as a Pharisee i can see it.

You simply don't understand, few do.

Therefore the above is correct according to the stipulation you put on it to be correct

 

[james57]

The only way it cannot be correct according to your logic is if you believe neither Ananias, Barnabas, the disciples at Antioch nor the apostles in Jerusalem told Paul- ensured he knew the core of the christian faith when he converted
Do you believe they didn't?

 

[eternallife7]

If a person seeks to attain heaven by observing the la we they are under a law of righteousness as I am sure everyone apart from you apparantly realises

Please do not include me in that line of thinking

 

[ladylynn]

I think it would be better to say sin-focused rather than sin-conscious. One cannot walk with Christ without an awareness of being a sinful being. He won't allow it. We are not the righteousness of GOD. Only Christ is. We have been declared righteous, and are being transformed into the righteousness of GOD, but we are yet sinful and he alone is righteousness. The walk is by faith in Christ's righteousness, not by focusing on our supposed righteousness.

The Bible says "as He is, so are we in this world" 1 John 4:17 When God sees us He sees us based on the perfection of Jesus. Jesus righteousness is our righteousness. The Bible says that because Jesus, who knew no sin, became sin for us, we are now the righteousness of God in Christ. 2 Cor.5:21

Vines Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words defines righteousness as "that gracious gift of God to men whereby all who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are brought into right relationship with God"

Our right standing with God is based on Jesus right standing before God. He took away all our unrighteousness and gave us the gift of His righteousness. It can only be received., can't be earned.

 

[ladylynn]

The answer is found in the definition. The people telling you to not be sin-conscious are not telling you to not be aware of wrong-doing, but rather, to not let sin be the sole focus of your life when Jesus has given you victory over it. The solution to sin is not the Law, it is grace. Awareness of sin doesn't give a person victory over it, it simply condemns.

Awareness of Jesus Christ, on the other hand, and His grace (and the victory He has given you, through such things as no condemnation, and imputed righteousness) is where you will find rest and peace. No longer does a mirror reflect you, but Christ in you. Your focus is not on your faults, but Him. His grace shatters the mirror and puts Him in the frame.

Hey brother Ben!!!! good to see you and your excellent responses. Blessings!

 

[Euphemia]

You still cannot address your original post can you. Let me help you out.

Paul kept what we can term the legalistic/ ceremonial law to the nth degree, but not what we can term the moral law.

I wonder which commandment as a Pharisee he would have had the hardest job convincing himself of that he obeyed it.

Still that isn't your concern I it, you don't believe Paul the Pharisee was aware of sin in his life. And as you say, you understand romans 7&8

Unbelievers are normally unaware of how grievous their sin is to God, nor do they care, nor do they have the ability to stop from committing it. They are slaves to it, even though some people do have an awareness of certain sins they commit. They cannot break free, even if they want to. The Law didn't have the ability to free people from sin, but it did provide a way for forgiveness of sins by way of shed blood of animals---imputed righteousness until one sinned again.


You seem to desire to make scripture, especially Romans 7 and 8 difficult to comprehend for people. Why is it so monumental for you? When Paul became a Christian, no longer was sin imputed to him, but it all fell on Jesus, and he was made aware of it because of the work of the Holy Spirit on His heart and mind.


.

 

[Euphemia]

No i don't understand in Christ we don't have sin conscious lives. You and I believe in a different gospel

James wrote in his letters his readers should confess their sins one to another. How can they do that if they are not conscious of them?
No need to answer the question. I'm not that interested in the reply.
To be honest with you, if I stole something I would be sin conscious. If I conmitted any what we can term wilfull sin I would be conscious I had sinned. But as you say, you understand the gospel and i dont

Well, Jesus has nothing to do with the gospel you are perpetrating. As a Spirit-filled believer, I am not sin-conscious, but only Christ-conscious! Because of Jesus in my life, I live by a totally other paradigm...one of freedom in Christ---free from the tyranny of sin. That doesn't mean I never sin. It means I am not dwelling on sin, because I am free from the pull of it in my life.

James is talking about believers who struggle, that they need to trust one another to share one another's burdens and confess their sins to each other in order to receive succor and encouragement and spiritual wisdom and help. The purpose of that is to make sure we foster transparency and accountability with one another.

You misinterpret the concept of sin-conscious.


.

 

[james57]

Unbelievers are normally unaware of how grievous their sin is to God, nor do they care, nor do they have the ability to stop from committing it. They are slaves to it, even though some people do have an awareness of certain sins they commit. They cannot break free, even if they want to. The Law didn't have the ability to free people from sin, but it did provide a way for forgiveness of sins by way of shed blood of animals---imputed righteousness until one sinned again.


You seem to desire to make scripture, especially Romans 7 and 8 difficult to comprehend for people. Why is it so monumental for you? When Paul became a Christian, no longer was sin imputed to him, but it all fell on Jesus, and he was made aware of it because of the work of the Holy Spirit on His heart and mind.


.

First paragraph. Only believers are conscious of their sin before God for through the law we become conscious of sin to 3:20

I don't find rom 7&8 difficult to understand. Interesting you should say unbelievers( non christians) dont have the ability to stop sinning, neither did Paul in rom 7:14-25.

 

[james57]

Well, Jesus has nothing to do with the gospel you are perpetrating. As a Spirit-filled believer, I am not sin-conscious, but only Christ-conscious! Because of Jesus in my life, I live by a totally other paradigm...one of freedom in Christ---free from the tyranny of sin. That doesn't mean I never sin. It means I am not dwelling on sin, because I am free from the pull of it in my life.

James is talking about believers who struggle, that they need to trust one another to share one another's burdens and confess their sins to each other in order to receive succor and encouragement and spiritual wisdom and help. The purpose of that is to make sure we foster transparency and accountability with one another.

You misinterpret the concept of sin-conscious.


.

You are free from the pull of sin in your life? My my. Paul states the spirit and the flesh are in conflict with each other so the believer I not to do what they want. I can only imagine you believe you have past such a stage. Not sure how many others will say they have.
But then you say it doesn't mean you never sin. Are you conscious of sin if you commit wilfull sin or not? I am. Jesus has nothing to do with Tha Gospel I believe? That is very interesting I must say. How can you confess sins I you are not aware of them"

You believe Paul in rom 7:14-25 is speaking as a christian. He had no ability to overcome sin in those verses and he was definitely sin conscious in those verses. I guess he hadn't come to the understanding you have of christianity, and Jesus had nothing to do with the gospel he was as perpetuating.

Romans 7&8 is difficult to reconcile for those who do not properly understand them, not for those who do

 

[Euphemia]

First paragraph. Only believers are conscious of their sin before God for through the law we become conscious of sin to 3:20

I don't find rom 7&8 difficult to understand. Interesting you should say unbelievers( non christians) dont have the ability to stop sinning, neither did Paul in rom 7:14-25.

That is a complete untruth. Unbelievers have no power to say no to sin, where Christians have that ability...as did Paul.

 

[james57]

That is a complete untruth. Unbelievers have no power to say no to sin, where Christians have that ability...as did Paul.

Absolutely non christians have no power to say no to sin

You believe Paul is speaking as a christian in rom 7:14-25

He said in those verses he was sold as a slave to sin. He could not do the good he wanted to do but rather the evil he did not want to do, what he hated to do he did.

You are all over the place here

 

[AboundingGrace]

That is a complete untruth. Unbelievers have no power to say no to sin, where Christians have that ability...as did Paul.

I think that unbelievers do have power to say no to sin.. otherwise they'd all be doing every known sin, and they are not. The same with any of us before we each got saved.

It's possible that the apostle Paul would come into the category too, using the law to refrain from sins, but not having satisfactory results until he got saved.

 

[james57]

As a Pharisee you believe Paul obeyed the law to the nth

As a christian you believe Paul could not do the good he wanted to do but rather the evil he did not want to do, what he hated to do he did
You also believe Paul the christian had all manner of concupiscence aroused in him by sin through the law. Sin grew/ got stronger in Paul the christian

According to your beliefs Paul the Pharisee sinned less than Paul the christian

Yet you say only the christian has the power to overcome sin

Wisdom is always proved right by its inconsistencies

 

[Euphemia]

Absolutely, it is the mark of a believer that the addiction to a life of sin is broken. We become overcomers, one with Christ, with His mind and living in His strength, learning to abide in Him and in His word.

Of course, because Holy Spirit lives in me, He makes it clear to me when I mess up. That is not what sin-conscious is. Sin-conscious people are tyrannized by sin, fixated on something that no longer a part of who they are. As believers we have become Christ-conscious, only living to please God and to further His kingdom. We have become NEW CREATURES in Christ, and live with a whole new paradigm...being free from fixations such as yours, based on poor understanding of scripture and the man, Paul.

Sorry to see that.

You are free from the pull of sin in your life? My my. Paul states the spirit and the flesh are in conflict with each other so the believer I not to do what they want. I can only imagine you
believe you have past such a stage. Not sure how many others will say they have.
But then you say it doesn't mean you never sin. Are you conscious of sin if you commit wilfull sin or not? I am. Jesus has nothing to do with Tha Gospel I believe? That is very interesting I must say. How can you confess sins I you are not aware of them"

You believe Paul in rom 7:14-25 is speaking as a christian. He had no ability to overcome sin in those verses and he was definitely sin conscious in those verses. I guess he hadn't come to the understanding you have of christianity, and Jesus had nothing to do with the gospel he was as perpetuating.

Romans 7&8 is difficult to reconcile for those who do not properly understand them, not for those who do

 

[Euphemia]

Every word Paul wrote was as a believer.

Absolutely non christians have no power to say no to sin

You believe Paul is speaking as a christian in rom 7:14-25

He said in those verses he was sold as a slave to sin. He could not do the good he wanted to do but rather the evil he did not want to do, what he hated to do he did.

You are all over the place here

 

[Euphemia]

No, unbelievers live by their own desires and their own personal moral code. They have no experience with godly sorrow.

I think that unbelievers do have power to say no to sin.. otherwise they'd all be doing every known sin, and they are not. The same with any of us before we each got saved.

It's possible that the apostle Paul would come into the category too, using the law to refrain from sins, but not having satisfactory results until he got saved.

 

[james57]

Absolutely, it is the mark of a believer that the addiction to a life of sin is broken. We become overcomers, one with Christ, with His mind and living in His strength, learning to abide in Him and in His word.

Of course, because Holy Spirit lives in me, He makes it clear to me when I mess up. That is not what sin-conscious is. Sin-conscious people are tyrannized by sin, fixated on something that no longer a part of who they are. As believers we have become Christ-conscious, only living to please God and to further His kingdom. We have become NEW CREATURES in Christ, and live with a whole new paradigm...being free from fixations such as yours, based on poor understanding of scripture and the man, Paul.

Sorry to see that.

I
I did make clear yesterday I was conscious of sin if I committed wilfull sin. Seems like you are saying the same thing yourself. Th was holy spirit convicts you when you mess up. That I not what sin conscious it? So when the holy spirit convicts you you ness up he does not convict you you have sinned. Strange.

Under the new covenant the la was is written on your mind and placed on your heart. Through the law we become conscious of sin. Therefore if you have no consciousness you sin when you wilfully break the law on your heart I would be concerned for you

I suppose I could ask if you are perpetuating a gospel not in accordance with the christian faith