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"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God ; believe also in me. my Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."
So in the Scripture above, Jesus tells his disciples and which includes all believers that, he is going to the Father's house to prepare a place for us. The Father's house would be without a doubt referring to heaven. 1 Thes.4:13-18 and 1 Cor.15:51-53, are when Jesus returns to take us back to the Father's house. As I have already pointed out, the church is the group that is seen following Christ out of heaven wearing fine linen, white and clean and riding on white horses, which demonstrates that we have to already be in heaven in order to be following him out of it.
I have seen people try to use this scripture to support their position before, but they don't pay attention to the details. First, Jesus prays himself, then for his immediate disciples and then for all believers. In the scripture that you quoted, Jesus is praying for his immediate disciples, those who were with him, that they not to be taken out of the world. And even if you attempted to associate this prayer with all believers, it would be false because obviously, regardless of timing, Jesus is coming back to gather all believers and take us back to the Father's house.
Let's be clear about the Day of the Lord, according to Paul it begins with the resurrection and catching away, which is followed by the wrath of God, which is carried out via the seal, trumpets and bowl judgments. Therefore, the church must be gathered and taken back to the Father's house prior to the first seal being opened, which begins God's wrath.
The problem with what you said above is that, if believers were here on earth to see God's destruction of the wicked, then all believers would also be exposed to God's wrath and that because it will involve the entire earth and there will be no where to hide. Not only that, but the worlds financial system of electronic crediting and debiting will only be accessible for those having the mark of the beast, which would mean that all believers could have no jobs, couldn't not pay their rents, mortgages, buy food or pay any debts of any kind. I think that you need to go back and read up on the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments to get an understanding of the severity and magnitude of God's wrath. By the time Christ returns to the earth to end the age there will hardly be anyone left on the earth. Regarding this Jesus said, "For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened."
The only people who are going to be here during that last seven years will be Israel, the 144,000 who will be caught up to God's throne during the middle of the seven years and the great tribulation saints, who are never referred to as the church, but will be those who become believers in Christ after the church has been removed. The church, though mentioned throughout Revelation 1 thru 3, is never mentioned from chapter 4 onward. It is not until Rev.19 that we see the Bride/Church mentioned at the wedding of the Lamb , which will take place in heaven. Then, the church follows Christ out of heaven to the earth to end the age, where he establishes his millennial kingdom.
Chronological order of end-time events:
1.) Jesus is currently building his Church
2.) Once the church is completed, Christ will gather the dead and living believers and take us to the Father's house
3.) First Seal is opened, which is the revealing of that antichrist and initiates the wrath of God
4.) The rest of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments follow chronologically throughout the seven years
5.) In the middle of the seven the antichrist/beast sets up the abomination in the temple and proclaims himself to be God
6.) Shortly after the seventh bowl judgment is poured out, Christ returns as described in Mt.24:29-31 and Rev.19:11-21
7.) The beast and the false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire
8.) An angel from heaven throws Satan into the Abyss and locks and seals it over him for a thousand years
9.) Judgment of the Goats and sheep
10.) Millennial period
So in the Scripture above, Jesus tells his disciples and which includes all believers that, he is going to the Father's house to prepare a place for us. The Father's house would be without a doubt referring to heaven. 1 Thes.4:13-18 and 1 Cor.15:51-53, are when Jesus returns to take us back to the Father's house. As I have already pointed out, the church is the group that is seen following Christ out of heaven wearing fine linen, white and clean and riding on white horses, which demonstrates that we have to already be in heaven in order to be following him out of it.
I have seen people try to use this scripture to support their position before, but they don't pay attention to the details. First, Jesus prays himself, then for his immediate disciples and then for all believers. In the scripture that you quoted, Jesus is praying for his immediate disciples, those who were with him, that they not to be taken out of the world. And even if you attempted to associate this prayer with all believers, it would be false because obviously, regardless of timing, Jesus is coming back to gather all believers and take us back to the Father's house.
Let's be clear about the Day of the Lord, according to Paul it begins with the resurrection and catching away, which is followed by the wrath of God, which is carried out via the seal, trumpets and bowl judgments. Therefore, the church must be gathered and taken back to the Father's house prior to the first seal being opened, which begins God's wrath.
The problem with what you said above is that, if believers were here on earth to see God's destruction of the wicked, then all believers would also be exposed to God's wrath and that because it will involve the entire earth and there will be no where to hide. Not only that, but the worlds financial system of electronic crediting and debiting will only be accessible for those having the mark of the beast, which would mean that all believers could have no jobs, couldn't not pay their rents, mortgages, buy food or pay any debts of any kind. I think that you need to go back and read up on the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments to get an understanding of the severity and magnitude of God's wrath. By the time Christ returns to the earth to end the age there will hardly be anyone left on the earth. Regarding this Jesus said, "For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened."
The only people who are going to be here during that last seven years will be Israel, the 144,000 who will be caught up to God's throne during the middle of the seven years and the great tribulation saints, who are never referred to as the church, but will be those who become believers in Christ after the church has been removed. The church, though mentioned throughout Revelation 1 thru 3, is never mentioned from chapter 4 onward. It is not until Rev.19 that we see the Bride/Church mentioned at the wedding of the Lamb , which will take place in heaven. Then, the church follows Christ out of heaven to the earth to end the age, where he establishes his millennial kingdom.
Chronological order of end-time events:
1.) Jesus is currently building his Church
2.) Once the church is completed, Christ will gather the dead and living believers and take us to the Father's house
3.) First Seal is opened, which is the revealing of that antichrist and initiates the wrath of God
4.) The rest of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments follow chronologically throughout the seven years
5.) In the middle of the seven the antichrist/beast sets up the abomination in the temple and proclaims himself to be God
6.) Shortly after the seventh bowl judgment is poured out, Christ returns as described in Mt.24:29-31 and Rev.19:11-21
7.) The beast and the false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire
8.) An angel from heaven throws Satan into the Abyss and locks and seals it over him for a thousand years
9.) Judgment of the Goats and sheep
10.) Millennial period
nice post atawakee