“Confronting the Error of Hyper-Grace” – a response to Michael Brown

[Grace777x70]

No..it is not ok to go and live however you want and sin...I believe in knowing who you are in Christ will change our outward behavior...."awake to righteousness and sin not.."..this is a call to see who you are in Christ and in knowing that..this life in you changes our behavior..

1 Corinthians 15:34 (KJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

And Peter says this..

1 Peter 1:14-16 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

Right believing always leads to right living.

so just so we can get this out there, because I fear your one of the people some are talking about.

Do you believe a person can repent, Come to Christ in faith, be given eternal life.

then continue to live in sin as he lived before? That this is ok??

FreeNChrist, can you answer this also.

Bueause this is what licentious teaches,, (and I assume hypergrace) so lets get that out in the open.

 

[PeterJens]

Repentance is a change of mind that leads to a change of action. The change of mind is the recognition that only Christ can save us and only Christ can live the Christian life.

Jer 18:8
Repent - "turn from their evil"

Eze 14:6
Repent - "turn back from your idols"

This meaning is taken into the new testament in the same way. It is wrong to take a concept and then make it something else without explanation within the text to show it now has a different meaning.

This is called adding to scripture or reading in what is not there. It is that simple and any biblical scholar would tell you this.

What astounds me is you would even try such a thing. It suggests the whole theology is founded on this kind of exergesis which is self created without any respect to the words themselves or the authors.

 

[Grace777x70]

Excellent!...that is exactly what I see in my spirit when I think about repentance....it's all about relying on Him.

That is the reason I say the real sin when stealing ( for example ) is not trusting in our Father to take care of us. The Stealing itself is the "fruit" or symptom of not trusting in God to take care of me.

Heres another definition from Ian Thomas that hits ya where the rubber meets the road....

"Repentance means stepping out of independence back into dependence, and the measure of your repentance will be the measure of your dependence. Every area of your life in which you have not learned to be truly dependent upon God is an area of your life in which you have not as yet repented."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No..it is not ok to go and live however you want and sin...I believe in knowing who you are in Christ will change our outward behavior...."awake to righteousness and sin not.."..this is a call to see who you are in Christ and in knowing that..this life in you changes our behavior..

1 Corinthians 15:34 (KJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

And Peter says this..

1 Peter 1:14-16 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

Right believing always leads to right living.

then according to this, you neither believe in hypergrace or licentiousness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jer 18:8
Repent - "turn from their evil"

Eze 14:6
Repent - "turn back from your idols"

This meaning is taken into the new testament in the same way. It is wrong to take a concept and then make it something else without explanation within the text to show it now has a different meaning.

This is called adding to scripture or reading in what is not there. It is that simple and any biblical scholar would tell you this.

What astounds me is you would even try such a thing. It suggests the whole theology is founded on this kind of exergesis which is self created without any respect to the words themselves or the authors.

what astounds me is someone who believes someone who has truly repented, are unable to turn from sin.. once they were empowered to do so by Christ himself.. Or would ever want anything less..

 

[FreeNChrist]

Jer 18:8
Repent - "turn from their evil"

Eze 14:6
Repent - "turn back from your idols"

This meaning is taken into the new testament in the same way. It is wrong to take a concept and then make it something else without explanation within the text to show it now has a different meaning.

This is called adding to scripture or reading in what is not there. It is that simple and any biblical scholar would tell you this.

What astounds me is you would even try such a thing. It suggests the whole theology is founded on this kind of exergesis which is self created without any respect to the words themselves or the authors.

You're a trip.

 

[PeterJens]

Who gave you the authority to judge that when God says I give you eternal life, and you wil never perish, he is a liar?

You do not understand language. Jesus said if you believe in Him you have eternal life.
This is about being in the present tense, believing. It is not about if you have believed in Jesus at any point in your life your are saved. But that is what you want it to say, but it does not.

I cannot believe in something that does not exist.

 

[Grace777x70]

I believe that the true grace of Christ teaches us to deny godly lusts and to live soberly in this world. licentiousness is living from the flesh and it is not living from grace.


I do not believe the performance-based gospel has the capability to effect real change in a person. It is based on will-power and those strong in one area of their flesh will judge those that are weak in the same area.

I actually do not mind the term hyper-grace....because as I have posted a few times it is definitely hyper!

then according to this, you neither believe in hypergrace or licentiousness.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Excellent!...that is exactly what I see in my spirit when I think about repentance....it's all about relying on Him.

That is the reason I say the real sin when stealing ( for example ) is not trusting in our Father to take care of us. The Stealing itself is the "fruit" or symptom of not trusting in God to take care of me.

Right. It's always rooted in a lack of trust in God.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I believe that the true grace of Christ teaches us to deny godly lusts and to live soberly in this world. licentiousness is living from the flesh and it is not living from grace.


I do not believe the performance-based gospel has the capability to effect real change in a person. It is based on will-power and those strong in one area of their flesh will judge those that are weak in the same area.

I actually do not mind the term hyper-grace....because as I have posted a few times it is definitely hyper!

I don't mind it either, except as it is defined by the anti-grace folks.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You do not understand language. Jesus said if you believe in Him you have eternal life.

The term used means faith, an active living faith, Not the dead faith James spoke of. which had no life.

This is about being in the present tense, believing. It is not about if you have believed in Jesus at any point in your life your are saved. But that is what you want it to say, but it does not.

I cannot believe in something that does not exist.

Niether can I,

I can not believe someone today can repent and have true living faith in God and all he says about sin and judement, and in Christ and his redemptive act.

then years later say, Nope. I do not believe in that stuff anymore.

Thats not going to happen, unless the person lied about repenting and having faith to begin with Which is exctly what the apostle john says,

God does not give his gift of eternal life to people who do not have real faith, He knew your whole life before you were even born, He Knows if you have real faith which never will pass away, or a psuedo faith, which will die, as you return to your true self.

it is not about me and my character, it is about Gods. Saying he gives gifts to those he KNOWS he will have to take it back from, is saying god is human, and not a perfet all knowing God.

God gives the gift of eternal life, and assures it, because he knows everything we will ever do from birth till death, We will never fool God.

But legalists evidently do not believe this, so they reject eternal security

 

[Grace777x70]

The D.I.Y. self-effort/ self-performance mindset and law.....only deal with the sin itself as a "fruit" and not the " root" which is always deep down relational...ie..no trust in our Lord and Father.

This is why the law of the spirit of life in Christ and the law of faith and the law of love are all written on our hearts now in the New Covenant..these all ascend the law.... We now live by the life of Christ in us.

Right. It's always rooted in a lack of trust in God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

.
It's not a question of whether it's OK to sin or not, but will you lose your salvation if you practice sin?

No..it is not ok to go and live however you want and sin...I believe in knowing who you are in Christ will change our outward behavior...."awake to righteousness and sin not.."..this is a call to see who you are in Christ and in knowing that..this life in you changes our behavior..

1 Corinthians 15:34 (KJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

And Peter says this..

1 Peter 1:14-16 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

Right believing always leads to right living.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

.
It's not a question of whether it's OK to sin or not, but will you lose your salvation if you practice sin?

is that the question?

John said a child of God can not practice sin, so that is not even a question at all.. or it should not be..

if one is trying to make that a question, then they need to look to the word. and admit the word answered that question 2000 years ago.

 

[Grace777x70]

I hear ya'...and we are contending for the faith......

it's always about Christ....and not us.....we get to participate in His life and love in us....which will manifest outwardly in our behavior!..

We don't have a change to talk about this aspect because we are still trying to get them to believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ and not on their own efforts or righteous deeds..

I don't mind it either, except as it is defined by the anti-grace folks.

 

[FreeNChrist]

.
It's not a question of whether it's OK to sin or not, but will you lose your salvation if you practice sin?

None of us need any practice, we're all professionals. Enter Jesus Christ, the sinless One. Thank you Jesus!!

 

[Willie-T]

is that the question?

John said a child of God can not practice sin, so that is not even a question at all.. or it should not be..

if one is trying to make that a question, then they need to look to the word. and admit the word answered that question 2000 years ago.

Yet, that same word said.... "however, when you DO sin....

 

[PeterJens]

what astounds me is someone who believes someone who has truly repented, are unable to turn from sin.. once they were empowered to do so by Christ himself.. Or would ever want anything less..

Here is a silly use of language. I would say someone who has repented of sin and turned to God, asking for forgiveness by believing on Jesus is able to walk in righteousness.

You use the term truly repented I suppose to mean the same thing as I have described. It is like playing games with words, but you intend to create antagonism. That is not of the Lord.

 

[oldthennew]

None of us need any practice, we're all professionals. Enter Jesus Christ, the sinless One. Thank you Jesus!!

======================================

whoa,
so, you are so 'professional' that you totally negate any 'practice', oh sinless-one,,,,,,,,,,
my God have mercy.........................

 

[FreeNChrist]

======================================

whoa,
so, you are so 'professional' that you totally negate any 'practice', oh sinless-one,,,,,,,,,,
my God have mercy.........................

Ummmm, you missed it entirely.