Are we sinners?

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Are christians still sinners?


  • Total voters
    40
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thebesttrees

Guest
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[TD]This physical world of man is subject to the power of the lusts, and sin is the consequence of this power of the lusts, for it is not subject to the laws of justice and holiness. The body of man is a captive of nature; it will act in accordance with whatever nature orders. It is, therefore, certain that sins such as anger, jealousy, dispute, covetousness, avarice, ignorance, prejudice, hatred, pride and tyranny exist in the physical world. All these brutal qualities exist in the nature of man. A man who has not had a spiritual education is a brute. Thus it is evident that the physical world of man is a world of sin. In this physical world man is not distinguished from the animal.

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[TD] All sin comes from the demands of nature, and these demands, which arise from the physical qualities, are not sins with respect to the animals, while for man they are sin. The animal is the source of imperfections, such as anger, sensuality, jealousy, avarice, cruelty, pride: all these defects are found in animals but do not constitute sins. But in man they are sins.

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[TD] Adam is the cause of man’s physical life; but the Reality of Christ—that is to say, the Word of God—is the cause of spiritual life. It is “a quickening spirit,” meaning that all the imperfections which come from the requirements of the physical life of man are transformed into human perfections by the teachings and education of that spirit. Therefore, Christ was a quickening spirit, and the cause of life in all mankind.

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[TD] Adam was the cause of physical life, and as the physical world of man is the world of imperfections, and imperfections are the equivalent of death, Paul compared the physical imperfections to death.

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Here are the Scriptures that come to my mind...

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

Romans 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

1 Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

My thoughts are death was not God's plan. It is the last enemy to go. Adam's sin caused death to enter, so they wouldn't need to eat from the tree of life before he sinned? It's possible that this is a clue to the fact that Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. So God knew that death and sin would enter so He prepared the tree of life, His Son.

C.
The Tree of Life was available to them before they sinned, but they chose sin and ergo death for all instead. There is nothing in Scripture to say they would have lived forever without having partaken of the Tree of Life, which they did not. Eternal life is granted only to those who believe on Him Whom God has sent in His Name. What I am curious about is two fold really, since so many seem to believe that life would be eternal without Jesus were it not for sin, and the other side of that, that eternal life is given to those who reject Jesus as well, so they can be tortured and tormented for an eternity.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,675
29,016
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[TD]Adam is the cause of man’s physical life; but the Reality of Christ—that is to say, the Word of God—is the cause of spiritual life. It is “a quickening spirit,” meaning that all the imperfections which come from the requirements of the physical life of man are transformed into human perfections by the teachings and education of that spirit. Therefore, Christ was a quickening spirit, and the cause of life in all mankind.
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[TD] Adam was the cause of physical life, and as the physical world of man is the world of imperfections, and imperfections are the equivalent of death, Paul compared the physical imperfections to death.
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God is the author and giver of life.
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
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It says all "have" sinned. past tense, not all are sinning.
Well congratulations, I personally haven't hit that mark yet :)

Pardon my isolating something you posted.. I'm puzzled by the last sentence "Anyone who claims they don't sin, doesn't need Christ, because they are righteous by law." What then? of Gal.2:21 “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness came by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”
No one has kept all the law (save one). So righteousness never came by the law. To claim that it had, would be to frustrate grace, and make Christ's sacrifice vain. Those who don't receive Christ will be judged by the law. That's how I read and understand it. My point was that if someone kept all the law and never sinned, they would need no Savior, but of course "All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God".
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,675
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If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Jesus never ate from the Tree of Life, but he was fully human AND fully divine while here on Earth. He could have saved himself from the cross and remained immortal, but he didn't because he was sent here to die for the world's present, past and future sins..
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,675
29,016
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Jesus never ate from the Tree of Life, but he was fully human AND fully divine while here on Earth. He could have saved himself from the cross and remained immortal, but he didn't because he was sent here to die for the world's present, past and future sins..
Do you deny that Jesus holds the keys to life and death?
 
Jun 23, 2015
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Do Christians still sin?


Yup.






Has any Christian gone an entire day without committing a single sin - whether by thought, word, or deed?


Nope.


I guess we can close the books on that case, Perry Mason.
Evidently not!
What is your new identity IN Christ?
:p
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,675
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Why would Jesus need to eat from the Tree of Life?
He is the author and giver of life!
In Him we live and move and have our being.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,919
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Do you deny that Jesus holds the keys to life and death?

Of course not. Where do you get THAT from?? Jesus is the giver of all life. Ultimately, he is also the receiver of all life. The ones who go to heaven, that is.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Why would Jesus need to eat from the Tree of Life? He is the author and giver of life!
I never said He had to eat of it. He WAS fully human, and very well could have eaten from it though, had he wanted to do so.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Of course not. Where do you get THAT from?? Jesus is the giver of all life. Ultimately, he is also the receiver of all life. The ones who go to heaven, that is.
You started out by saying Jesus never ate from the Tree of Life. Why would He have to? He is Life.

"I am the way and the truth and the life..."
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
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Evidently not!
What is your new identity IN Christ?
:p

An "identity" doesn't change reality. We are declared sinless in the eyes of God because the righteousness of Christ is placed into our account. Yet, still having a human nature means we will still commit sins.

If someone tells a lie - they are a liar.

If one steals something - they are a thief.

If one commits sins - they are a sinner.

Basic logic.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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And apparently Adam and Eve were free to eat of the tree of life also, but they never did. God told them ONLY to not eat the fruit of the tree of knowlege of good and evil. He didn't need to tell them to eat from the tree of life because BEFORE they ate the fruit, they were ALREADY immortal. So it's kind of senseless to tell them to eat of an immortal tree when they're ALREADY immortal anyway..
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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And apparently Adam and Eve were free to eat of the tree of life also, but they never did. God told them ONLY to not eat the fruit of the tree of knowlege of good and evil. He didn't need to tell them to eat from the tree of life because BEFORE they ate the fruit, they were ALREADY immortal. So it's kind of senseless to tell them to eat of an immortal tree when they're ALREADY immortal anyway..
Scripture never says they were immortal. They were allowed to eat from the Tree of Life but never did, so why say they were immortal? It seems an erroneous assumption to make.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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You started out by saying Jesus never ate from the Tree of Life. Why would He have to? He is Life.

"I am the way and the truth and the life..."

Once again, Jesus was fully HUMAN during his time here on Earth. Had he wanted to, he could have eaten from the tree, and forsaken the cross altogether. BUT He had a different plan in mind for the world, and becoming immortal wasn't part of that plan.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Scripture never says they were immortal. They were allowed to eat from the Tree of Life but never did, so why say they were immortal? It seems an erroneous assumption to make.
It's not erroneous at all. BEFORE they sinned, they were immortal. They were perfect. Only AFTER they sinned, and death entered the garden, did they become sinful mortals.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Once again, Jesus was fully HUMAN during his time here on Earth. Had he wanted to, he could have eaten from the tree, and forsaken the cross altogether. BUT He had a different plan in mind for the world, and becoming immortal wasn't part of that plan.
So Jesus is not immortal in your view?
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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So Jesus is not immortal in your view?

Yes, he IS immortal. But NOT while he was here on Earth. He was FULLY HUMAN at that time.. He was also fully divine, but NOT immortal while he inhabited Earth.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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It's not erroneous at all. BEFORE they sinned, they were immortal. They were perfect. Only AFTER they sinned, and death entered the garden, did they become sinful mortals.
Scripture never says what you espouse.