-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
.
Same word in both verses.
Sinner
G268 ἁμαρτωλός hamartolos (ham-ar-to-los') adj.
1. sinful, i.e. a sinner
Same word in both verses.
Sinner
G268 ἁμαρτωλός hamartolos (ham-ar-to-los') adj.
1. sinful, i.e. a sinner
God demonstrates his own love for us, [in] that [while] we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
The saying [is] trustworthy and worthy of all acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. 1 Timothy 1:15
The saying [is] trustworthy and worthy of all acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. 1 Timothy 1:15
Of course it's the same word...Cee..already wrote to you about this....
David said his flesh cried out for God and that was before the NT.
As far as the Scripture you quoted (kinda)... Here's the full:
15It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
Example for those who WOULD believe in Him, Not as an example who have believed in Him, big difference. You're using it as an example for those who are saved. And ignoring the ones that clearly say those who are saved are new creations.
Do you realize that he was the foremost sinner because persecuteD the church? Paul is referring to himself before Christ. Why? So they would understand that they could be saved. Exactly what he did in Romans 7.
1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
Ephesians 3:8
Although I am less than the least of all the Lord's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ,
We all were chief sinners which is why Christ came into the world to save us....Paul was identifying with the rest of the world when he said he was the chief of sinners...as Cee has shown you and I and many others have shown you..after Christ we are new creations in Him..called saints....
1 Timothy 1:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
David said his flesh cried out for God and that was before the NT.
As far as the Scripture you quoted (kinda)... Here's the full:
15It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
Example for those who WOULD believe in Him, Not as an example who have believed in Him, big difference. You're using it as an example for those who are saved. And ignoring the ones that clearly say those who are saved are new creations.
Do you realize that he was the foremost sinner because persecuteD the church? Paul is referring to himself before Christ. Why? So they would understand that they could be saved. Exactly what he did in Romans 7.
1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
Ephesians 3:8
Although I am less than the least of all the Lord's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ,
We all were chief sinners which is why Christ came into the world to save us....Paul was identifying with the rest of the world when he said he was the chief of sinners...as Cee has shown you and I and many others have shown you..after Christ we are new creations in Him..called saints....
1 Timothy 1:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
First, the world isn't chief. It means foremost; greatest. We are not all the greatest, or foremost sinners.
Second, it doesn't matter how Cee and you try to rationalize the plain wording of Paul's speech with your many words. Paul said 'I am greatest of sinners'. To go beyond this is just silly and uncalled for.
Second, it doesn't matter how Cee and you try to rationalize the plain wording of Paul's speech with your many words. Paul said 'I am greatest of sinners'. To go beyond this is just silly and uncalled for.
Last edited:
To be honest, I don't really know where I stand exactly on this.
Yes the Bible says that we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us if we say we have no sin. Having said that, there are those in the Christian community who insist that we are no longer "sinners" in the sense that we have been regenerated by Christ. On the other hand, there are those who say that we are still "sinners" due to the fact that we still sin in these corrupted bodies of ours.
I suppose it all depends on how one defines the word "sinner".
Yes the Bible says that we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us if we say we have no sin. Having said that, there are those in the Christian community who insist that we are no longer "sinners" in the sense that we have been regenerated by Christ. On the other hand, there are those who say that we are still "sinners" due to the fact that we still sin in these corrupted bodies of ours.
I suppose it all depends on how one defines the word "sinner".
Except...it is important for us to know that Paul was employing the present tense as a known (at that time) literary device for emphasis. Of course, the apostle Paul was not a "chief" of sinners. No! Rather, he was a wonderfully redeemed and transformed ex-sinner, full of the Holy Spirit and the righteousness of Jesus Christ, appointed by Jesus Himself to bring forth the Good News of Jesus Christ to the entire known world.
For when we were yet without strength in due time Christ died for the ungodly romans5:6
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 8
When you come to Christ you weak and without strength, someone who lives a sinful lifestyle, and you can be instantly forgiven just where you at at. So Jesus died for you and will be your Lord and savior when you come to him weak and without strength having lived a life of sin. But you cant stay in that state.
I could be a drunk and a prostitute when I come to Christ and he will accept me as I am, but then I have to grow, change has to come
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 8
When you come to Christ you weak and without strength, someone who lives a sinful lifestyle, and you can be instantly forgiven just where you at at. So Jesus died for you and will be your Lord and savior when you come to him weak and without strength having lived a life of sin. But you cant stay in that state.
I could be a drunk and a prostitute when I come to Christ and he will accept me as I am, but then I have to grow, change has to come
Very true..there are some that look at the term "sinner" and they think of identity and then there are some that think of sinning..the action.
Some people believe we have a new creation..a new man of the heart..a new inner man. It's this new nature that defines who we are. We have been created in Christ Jesus in righteousness and true holiness in our new man.
It's all a question of identity.
I maintain that Paul did not write "..to the sinners ( identity ) at Rome, Ephesus, Colossae, Corinth Galatia..etc..
We are called saints but we do sin sometimes..
Some people believe we have a new creation..a new man of the heart..a new inner man. It's this new nature that defines who we are. We have been created in Christ Jesus in righteousness and true holiness in our new man.
It's all a question of identity.
I maintain that Paul did not write "..to the sinners ( identity ) at Rome, Ephesus, Colossae, Corinth Galatia..etc..
We are called saints but we do sin sometimes..
Its a tricky question as self is a sinner. But self is put to death when one is born again and Christ lives in us by faith. So If self is dead then they are gone and a sinner they are not. But if self is still alive then a sinner they are.
If Christ is alive in us then we have been born again, justified by His blood sanctified by His life. self is crucified with Christ that Christ may live in us the hope of Glory.
If Christ is alive in us then we have been born again, justified by His blood sanctified by His life. self is crucified with Christ that Christ may live in us the hope of Glory.
The apostle of grace called himself the “chief of sinners” (1 Tim 1:15) and ever since then Christians have been confused about their identity. They say things like “I’m a sinner saved by grace” even though the Bible declares they are a saint (Eph 1:1, Php 1:1).So what are you? A saint or a sinner or a bit of both?
Here is a grace-based teaching on Paul the chief of sinners..if anyone is interested in that...
The Chief of Sinners – Escape to Reality
Here is a grace-based teaching on Paul the chief of sinners..if anyone is interested in that...
The Chief of Sinners – Escape to Reality
The apostle of grace called himself the “chief of sinners” (1 Tim 1:15) and ever since then Christians have been confused about their identity. They say things like “I’m a sinner saved by grace” even though the Bible declares they are a saint (Eph 1:1, Php 1:1).So what are you? A saint or a sinner or a bit of both?
Here is a grace-based teaching on Paul the chief of sinners..if anyone is interested in that...
The Chief of Sinners – Escape to Reality
Here is a grace-based teaching on Paul the chief of sinners..if anyone is interested in that...
The Chief of Sinners – Escape to Reality
Why do you answer a question with a question?
Shouldn't you first answer my question then ask yours?
But as you dont want to I will still answer yours.
You need to read verse 13
Who was (before) a blasphemer, and a persecutor and injurious, but I obtained mercy, because I did it in ignorance and unbelief.
All past tense
So in verse 15 he is simply stating the person he has been explaining previously. He is Paul who previously lived as described.
The idea Paul the christian was the worst sinner on the planet doesn't bear credence in my view
Shouldn't you first answer my question then ask yours?
But as you dont want to I will still answer yours.
You need to read verse 13
Who was (before) a blasphemer, and a persecutor and injurious, but I obtained mercy, because I did it in ignorance and unbelief.
All past tense
So in verse 15 he is simply stating the person he has been explaining previously. He is Paul who previously lived as described.
The idea Paul the christian was the worst sinner on the planet doesn't bear credence in my view
The apostle of grace called himself the “chief of sinners” (1 Tim 1:15) and ever since then Christians have been confused about their identity. They say things like “I’m a sinner saved by grace” even though the Bible declares they are a saint (Eph 1:1, Php 1:1).So what are you? A saint or a sinner or a bit of both?
Here is a grace-based teaching on Paul the chief of sinners..if anyone is interested in that...
The Chief of Sinners – Escape to Reality
Here is a grace-based teaching on Paul the chief of sinners..if anyone is interested in that...
The Chief of Sinners – Escape to Reality
1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
the context of this verse is what Paul did especially to the followers of Christ:
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
notice "was before" so why is he not now? "but I obtained mercy" and:
1Ti 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
So the Grace of God through His mercy in Christ by faith in Christ changed that. This is the context. notice the verse again:
1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Save sinners form what?
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
save them from sin. Paul does not say I am chief as in I am still doing these things. But that He is chief because he once did those things. But no longer His testimony is of a changed man in Christ. In fact read the whole chapter nay the whole book. Paul is making the point that though He did all these things that made Him Chief He is new in Christ no longer the same by Gods Grace.
the context of this verse is what Paul did especially to the followers of Christ:
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
notice "was before" so why is he not now? "but I obtained mercy" and:
1Ti 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
So the Grace of God through His mercy in Christ by faith in Christ changed that. This is the context. notice the verse again:
1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Save sinners form what?
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
save them from sin. Paul does not say I am chief as in I am still doing these things. But that He is chief because he once did those things. But no longer His testimony is of a changed man in Christ. In fact read the whole chapter nay the whole book. Paul is making the point that though He did all these things that made Him Chief He is new in Christ no longer the same by Gods Grace.