ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, HYPER GRACE, ETERNAL SECURITY = FALSE DOCTRINE PROVEN!

[psalm6819]

The reason we need to have the fear of the lord is because of the deceitfulness of the human heart and GOD"s hatred for sin. The fear of the lord is [the beginning of) knowledge and wisdom.

And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom; and to depart from evil [is] understanding. Job 28:28

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and all that act accordingly have a good understanding; his praise endures for ever and ever. Psalms 111:10

The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7​

I have awe toward the LORD, I respect Him as Creator and Savior, I acknowledge Him as Source of everything but I don't obey out of fear. I dearly love Him, I approach Him with boldness, He's not only Father, He's Daddy. If I tremble in His Presence it is in awestruck wonder of His Majesty. I don't believe He wants me to be afraid of Him. He wants to be with me, He wants to spend time with me, He knows every single hair on my head. He's got a good plan for me, hope and a future. I love Him more than anyone or anything and always will. He is the ONLY one who will not desert me. I don't fear Him, I LOVE Him.

and I know you do, too. HRFTD., even if we differ on some points.

 

[Grace777x70]

it is an interesting to study out in the N.T. the term "fear and trembling". It is not what it was in the O.T.

If we let scripture interpret scripture we see that in the 2 other places where "fear and trembling" was used it referred to the woman with the issue of blood and Jesus healed her. She experienced the goodness and love of Jesus and she had awe and reverence for the goodness done to het.

The other usage was Paul and he was referring to having no confidence in himself as he was coming tp preach the gospel to the Corinthians.

Fear and trembling = being in awe and reverence of the goodness of God to us and our complete reliance on Him for all things..especially in preaching the gospel.

It is never being "afraid" of God. It's knowing His love for us that takes away the bad kind of fear.

1 John 4:17-19 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

 

[youmustrepent]

Hebrews 5:9 a..He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal life. James 2:20 Are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone. 1 John 3:7-10 Little children, let no one deceive you, the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous ; te one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. the Son of God appeared or this purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil. No one born of Go practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Can you continue to be a child molesting ax murderer and be a Christian? Can you be a liar Christian? A gay Christian? You choose to sin and you choose not to. Choose now who you will serve. It is either God or Satan. Hot or cold. for Him or against Him. Everyone who fears Go and does what is right is acceptable to Him. Just throw all your traditions to the side and read the word of God. Repent of your sins and seek Him with your whole heart. Be willing to test everything you think is true. I what you believe disagrees with the Bible, you must change what you believe. Your eternity depends on it.

 

[notuptome]

I love promoting grace. Christ died for all our sins, we are not under law but under grace.

But that is depending on something.

But if you are led by the spirit you are not under law

Some are preaching it makes no difference if you are led by the spirit or the flesh all your life, you still make it to heaven

Might sound nice and cosy to say that, but that isn't what the bible states

We do not come to Christ by our own volition. We must be drawn to Christ by the Holy Spirit whom the Father directs to convict us of our sin, Christ's righteousness and the certain eternal judgment of sin.

Gods grace and the blood of Jesus Christ is wholly sufficient to save whosoever will come and to save them eternally.

Consider what Jesus said to Peter: Mt 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

it is an interesting to study out in the N.T. the term "fear and trembling". It is not what it was in the O.T.

If we let scripture interpret scripture we see that in the 2 other places where "fear and trembling" was used it referred to the woman with the issue of blood and Jesus healed her. She experienced the goodness and love of Jesus and she had awe and reverence for the goodness done to het.

The other usage was Paul and he was referring to having no confidence in himself as he was coming tp preach the gospel to the Corinthians.

Fear and trembling = being in awe and reverence of the goodness of God to us and our complete reliance on Him for all things..especially in preaching the gospel.

It is never being "afraid" of God. It's knowing His love for us that takes away the bad kind of fear.

.
More Modern Grace rationalization.

Grace has to be balanced with a healthy fear of GOD. Both keep us on the straight and narrow.

Fear
G5399 φοβέω phobeo (fob-eh'-o) v.
1. to frighten

And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows. Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. Luke 12:4-9​

 

[Grace777x70]

His love takes away the fear... He is a good, good, loving, faithful Father!

1 John 4:17-19 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

 

[notuptome]

Hebrews 5:9 a..He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal life. James 2:20 Are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone. 1 John 3:7-10 Little children, let no one deceive you, the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous ; te one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. the Son of God appeared or this purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil. No one born of Go practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Can you continue to be a child molesting ax murderer and be a Christian? Can you be a liar Christian? A gay Christian? You choose to sin and you choose not to. Choose now who you will serve. It is either God or Satan. Hot or cold. for Him or against Him. Everyone who fears Go and does what is right is acceptable to Him. Just throw all your traditions to the side and read the word of God. Repent of your sins and seek Him with your whole heart. Be willing to test everything you think is true. I what you believe disagrees with the Bible, you must change what you believe. Your eternity depends on it.

So in your understanding James and Paul are at odds with each other? Eph 2:8-10 cast a different light on your understanding of James 2:20.

Works and righteousness flow out of salvation. Works and righteousness do not flow into salvation. Salvation is wholly dependent upon God and not man.

A man who has been changed by Gods grace can not become unsaved any more than a butterfly can once again revert to become a caterpillar.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

His love takes away the fear... He is a good, good, loving, faithful Father!

1 John 4:17-19 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

GOD's grace doesn't take away all fear because the fear of GOD is one of the 7 spirits of GOD.

Fear
G5401 φόβος phobos (fob'-os) n.
1. alarm or fright

The Spirit of God shall rest upon [Christ] , the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and strength, the spirit of knowledge and godliness shall fill him; the spirit of the fear of God. He shall not judge according to appearance, nor reprove according to report: Isaiah 11:2-3​

 

[KennethC]

I have awe toward the LORD, I respect Him as Creator and Savior, I acknowledge Him as Source of everything but I don't obey out of fear. I dearly love Him, I approach Him with boldness, He's not only Father, He's Daddy. If I tremble in His Presence it is in awestruck wonder of His Majesty. I don't believe He wants me to be afraid of Him. He wants to be with me, He wants to spend time with me, He knows every single hair on my head. He's got a good plan for me, hope and a future. I love Him more than anyone or anything and always will. He is the ONLY one who will not desert me. I don't fear Him, I LOVE Him.

and I know you do, too. HRFTD., even if we differ on some points.

Yes we don't obey out of fear, we obey out of love for Him.

The fear only exists in disobedience, if we are walking in love then there is nothing to fear because love will not lead us astray. Love will keep us walking on the proper path !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

We delight in the fear of the Lord! We are in Him! Christ is in us! We are one in the Lord.

We do not "fear" Him as an unbeliever. The spirits belong to Christ. We belong to Him now! We have as much to fear as Christ does now.

As He is..so also are we in this world.

We have a good, loving Father that we are in awe and reverence to as He is mighty to save and His love is boundless!

 

[KennethC]

So in your understanding James and Paul are at odds with each other? Eph 2:8-10 cast a different light on your understanding of James 2:20.

Works and righteousness flow out of salvation. Works and righteousness do not flow into salvation. Salvation is wholly dependent upon God and not man.

A man who has been changed by Gods grace can not become unsaved any more than a butterfly can once again revert to become a caterpillar.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So than a person does not have the choice to chose to have faith in and follow Jesus ???

Because being under God's grace we have to put our faith and trust in Jesus as our Lord and Savior, without doing that we are not saved !!!

 

[gb9]

So than a person does not have the choice to chose to have faith in and follow Jesus ???

Because being under God's grace we have to put our faith and trust in Jesus as our Lord and Savior, without doing that we are not saved !!!

correct. but as roger said, the flow of faith and works come out of grace, by grace through faith for good works. faith and works do not flow into grace. grace is given, not earned.

 

[kathryn]

We do not come to Christ by our own volition. We must be drawn to Christ by the Holy Spirit whom the Father directs to convict us of our sin, Christ's righteousness and the certain eternal judgment of sin.

Gods grace and the blood of Jesus Christ is wholly sufficient to save whosoever will come and to save them eternally.

Consider what Jesus said to Peter: Mt 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The message comes as a whole, we cannot just ignore what we are not comfortable with.
The problem as I see it is, some are not distinguishing between following after the spirit and following after the flesh where the message is concerned
When you are following after the spirit, though you remain imperfect in your flesh, no condemnation, Jesus died for all your imperfections. Praise him that though you are imperfect you are seen as perfect by your father in heaven. No guilt, no fear

Choose to follow after the flesh and it is impossible to view it that way

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

We delight in the fear of the Lord! We are in Him! Christ is in us! We are one in the Lord.

We do not "fear" Him as an unbeliever. The spirits belong to Christ. We belong to Him now! We have as much to fear as Christ does now.

As He is..so also are we in this world.

We have a good, loving Father that we are in awe and reverence to as He is mighty to save and His love is boundless!

Unbelievers don't fear GOD. Only godly people do.

 

[KennethC]

correct. but as roger said, the flow of faith and works come out of grace, by grace through faith for good works. faith and works do not flow into grace. grace is given, not earned.

That is false !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We do have to put faith and trust in Jesus, that is our choice to choose who we serve.

God states it is our choice, Jesus says its our choice, and Paul says its our choice.....................

You take free will out of the equation by this understanding, and you also have God playing favoritism which His word clearly says He does not do.

All people are not going to be saved, even though Jesus died for all people.

The reason is because some will never put their faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and then from there you will have others (Goats) who claim Him to be their Lord but do not put their full trust in Him to be their Savior as well.

This is seen in Matthew 25's separation of the sheep and the goats, the goats thought they were saved to until they stood before Christ and He sent them to everlasting punishment instead.

By the OSAS or Hyper-Grace understandings then the goats should have been saved to, because they believed in Jesus as their Lord. Yet how they mistreated others by denying them cost them salvation, because Jesus told them by denying those people they denied Him.

This passage gets downplayed and stated as just unbelief, the goats were unbelievers.

But Jesus did not tell the goats they did not get eternal life because of unbelief, He told them it was because they denied helping others in need and that in turn is the same as denying Him.

Showing that denying the Lord is more then just you don't believe He exists !!!


The quality of life one lives is proof they are saved or not, and through Jesus and Paul both show that we still have the choice to choose who to follow and serve. That choice is not taken out of our hands.......

 

[notuptome]

So than a person does not have the choice to chose to have faith in and follow Jesus ???

Because being under God's grace we have to put our faith and trust in Jesus as our Lord and Savior, without doing that we are not saved !!!

Saving faith and living faith come not from us. If you have faith and if you live by faith it comes from hearing Gods word.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Your faith will fail but the faith of God endures. Jesus was faithful and His faithfulness is imputed to us. Only perfect faith is acceptable to God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

The quality of life one lives is proof they are saved or not, and through Jesus and Paul both show that we still have the choice to choose who to follow and serve. That choice is not taken out of our hands.......

No man can have two masters. Either you serve sin or you serve God but you are subject to one or the other.

Redemption involves you being purchased by Christ. You are a servant of Christ if you have been saved. You serve Christ either to good or to shame but in any case you serve Christ and He is glorified.

Scripture declares that we know we are saved by the witness of the Holy Spirit not the quality of our lives. Consider those who live in third world countries and measure the quality of their life with even the poorest here in this country.

Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[KennethC]

Saving faith and living faith come not from us. If you have faith and if you live by faith it comes from hearing Gods word.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Your faith will fail but the faith of God endures. Jesus was faithful and His faithfulness is imputed to us. Only perfect faith is acceptable to God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No man can have two masters. Either you serve sin or you serve God but you are subject to one or the other.

Redemption involves you being purchased by Christ. You are a servant of Christ if you have been saved. You serve Christ either to good or to shame but in any case you serve Christ and He is glorified.

Scripture declares that we know we are saved by the witness of the Holy Spirit not the quality of our lives. Consider those who live in third world countries and measure the quality of their life with even the poorest here in this country.

Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Wrong on your understanding on both points, as faith does come from hearing the Word of God.

And after hearing we put or faith and trust in Jesus and follow what He said for us to do, people after hearing and reading the Word of God still choose rather to obey and follow Jesus or not.

Which is why you have a number of pretend Christians sitting in the pews, thinking just by reading their bibles and going to church on Saturday or Sunday they are saved.

This is a false understanding as faith in Jesus is not an inactive one that does not have fruit of the Spirit evident in us believers life.

Paul, Peter, James, and definitely John shows that quality of life is proof of one who is saved.

Apostle John who is the clearest of all breaks down the walk of a believer, and states quite clearly if you do not act a certain way or treat others properly then the Truth and eternal life does not abide in you.

The Holy Spirit does not leave true believers continuing down the same sinful paths, we are chastised and corrected by the Lord through His Holy Spirit.

Quality of life does not mean wealth and prosperity, it means how you personally act and treat others !!!

By bringing up third world countries it seems that is all you focus on when quality of life is mentioned, but that is not all what was being stated.

A person in a third world country can still be loving and caring and obedient to the ways of God, Jesus even shows how blessed these people are because they go through even harsher conditions yet still keep their faith strong. Something we in U.S. take for granted, which is why some here lose faith over things they in those countries would look at as stupid as they face those conditions everyday.

The Holy Spirit is not the only witness for us, as there are three;

1 John 5:7-8 Holy Spirit, Baptism, and Jesus blood

 

[notuptome]

Wrong on your understanding on both points, as faith does come from hearing the Word of God.

And after hearing we put or faith and trust in Jesus and follow what He said for us to do, people after hearing and reading the Word of God still choose rather to obey and follow Jesus or not.

Which is why you have a number of pretend Christians sitting in the pews, thinking just by reading their bibles and going to church on Saturday or Sunday they are saved.

This is a false understanding as faith in Jesus is not an inactive one that does not have fruit of the Spirit evident in us believers life.

Paul, Peter, James, and definitely John shows that quality of life is proof of one who is saved.

Apostle John who is the clearest of all breaks down the walk of a believer, and states quite clearly if you do not act a certain way or treat others properly then the Truth and eternal life does not abide in you.

The Holy Spirit does not leave true believers continuing down the same sinful paths, we are chastised and corrected by the Lord through His Holy Spirit.

Quality of life does not mean wealth and prosperity, it means how you personally act and treat others !!!

By bringing up third world countries it seems that is all you focus on when quality of life is mentioned, but that is not all what was being stated.

A person in a third world country can still be loving and caring and obedient to the ways of God, Jesus even shows how blessed these people are because they go through even harsher conditions yet still keep their faith strong. Something we in U.S. take for granted, which is why some here lose faith over things they in those countries would look at as stupid as they face those conditions everyday.

The Holy Spirit is not the only witness for us, as there are three;

1 John 5:7-8 Holy Spirit, Baptism, and Jesus blood

As long as you argue against scripture you make yourself to be without merit. Faith comes from hearing the word of God. It is the Holy Spirit that takes the word of God and applies it to the heart of the hearer.

Mans faith is a poor as mans righteousness. It is the faith of Christ that the Father is please with not any mans faith. When we pray for God to increase our faith the reply comes back to receive His word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[KennethC]

As long as you argue against scripture you make yourself to be without merit. Faith comes from hearing the word of God. It is the Holy Spirit that takes the word of God and applies it to the heart of the hearer.

Mans faith is a poor as mans righteousness. It is the faith of Christ that the Father is please with not any mans faith. When we pray for God to increase our faith the reply comes back to receive His word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I am not the one who is arguing against scripture, you are the one who seems to deny what all four Paul, Peter, James, and John say and show.

How many times does Apostle John have to say if you don't act like this the truth is not in you, or eternal life does not abide in you in order to believe his words.

Do you really think a hateful, unforgiving, or uncaring person will still get eternal life ???

If you do then I suggest you do some more reading as those three things are clearly stated are not the way of God, and those who act in such a way are not His.

What makes a person be without merit is one who claims to stand for Christ, but denies we have to observe, obey, follow His teachings. You can not serve Him and have faith in Him if you place no faith in doing what He said !!!

Jesus Himself said those who believe in Him are those that 1) come to Him, 2) hear what He says, and 3) does what He said.

A hearer but not a doer is said to have no foundation in Him and are deceived !!!


Placing those who are consistently disobedient as saved is going against the Word of God..................