ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, HYPER GRACE, ETERNAL SECURITY = FALSE DOCTRINE PROVEN!

[notuptome]

I am not the one who is arguing against scripture, you are the one who seems to deny what all four Paul, Peter, James, and John say and show.

How many times does Apostle John have to say if you don't act like this the truth is not in you, or eternal life does not abide in you in order to believe his words.

Do you really think a hateful, unforgiving, or uncaring person will still get eternal life ???

If you do then I suggest you do some more reading as those three things are clearly stated are not the way of God, and those who act in such a way are not His.

What makes a person be without merit is one who claims to stand for Christ, but denies we have to observe, obey, follow His teachings. You can not serve Him and have faith in Him if you place no faith in doing what He said !!!

Jesus Himself said those who believe in Him are those that 1) come to Him, 2) hear what He says, and 3) does what He said.

A hearer but not a doer is said to have no foundation in Him and are deceived !!!


Placing those who are consistently disobedient as saved is going against the Word of God..................

You are set to judge your fellow man. If men are disobedient they are disobedient to God and not to me.

Allow God to minister in the hearts of men. Have compassion on the less fortunate.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickyZ]

Contradicting your view of scripture is not contradicting scripture.

Your personal bias toward me is clouding your ability to see the truth of the scriptures. Your sore spot is that I have refuted your position of tongues and the other sign gifts. For you to accept anything I say is to accept that you have a flaw in your doctrine regarding gifts. Really its a shame you cannot get past what has become for you a big stumbling block.

Gods grace always produces a change that cannot be repented of.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Roger, I ride you for several reasons:

1. As evidenced by the 4 examples I give, you so blatantly and openly contradict scripture that you have absolutely no credibility as an interpreter of scripture.

2. Your denial of the Gifts of the Spirit and preaching against them put you on borderline blaspheme.

3. Your false teachings, leading believers away from God's truth, puts you among the group described in 1 Timothy 4:2

And the thing I'd most like to see change in you,

4. Your lack of faith excludes you from being used by God in the fullness He wishes He could work thru you.

You are not a stumbling block, Roger. You are blind and ignorant, and it is my quest to open your eyes to it!

 

[notuptome]

Roger, I ride you for several reasons:

1. As evidenced by the 4 examples I give, you so blatantly and openly contradict scripture that you have absolutely no credibility as an interpreter of scripture.

2. Your denial of the Gifts of the Spirit and preaching against them put you on borderline blaspheme.

3. Your false teachings, leading believers away from God's truth, puts you among the group described in 1 Timothy 4:2

And the thing I'd most like to see change in you,

4. Your lack of faith excludes you from being used by God in the fullness He wishes He could work thru you.

You are not a stumbling block, Roger. You are blind and ignorant, and it is my quest to open your eyes to it!

You are certainly a sad case. You endeavor to teach that which you do not comprehend. Jesus warned if the blind lead the blind will they not both fall into the ditch?

This subject is one of the common symptoms of Pentecostals or charismatics. A lack of sound biblical exegesis. All you can do is accuse others. Sad really sad but best you pick on me rather than someone who is less grounded in the faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickyZ]

Let's review it again Roger...


Mark 11:23

Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them.

Matthew 12:21

Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.

Originally Posted by notuptome :
You are not going to move mountains with your faith.
Roger

*******

Mark 16:8 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them

Originally Posted by notuptome
So you believe in taking up deadly serpents? Drinking deadly poisons?
Roger

*******

1Co 14:4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.


Originally Posted by notuptome
What possible reason would one have to speak in an unknown tongue to God?
Roger

*******

1 Corinthians 14: 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues.
1 Corinthians 14: 39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

Originally Posted by notuptome :
Paul was not encouraging tongues
Roger

***

Like I said, your words have no credibility and your understanding is bankrupt. I could forgive this of a new believer but you should know better by now.

 

[Gr8grace]

I warn you( christians) as I did before. Those who continue to live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God Galatians 5:21

That plainly opposes your message of no matter how a christian acts they will attain heaven

All believers ENTER the kingdom. Not all will INHERIT the kingdom. Just as the angels in heaven, humans will have different ranks and rewards. Some will be servants and some will be reigning with HIM. But all believers are IN heaven.

Anyone who is born of God, does not practice sin nor can he even sin..............the new creation in Christ. It is a creation that CANNOT sin. And we can CHOOSE to operate in the new creation or we can choose to operate in the old sin nature/flesh.

The old man/flesh/old sin nature is not saved nor is it redeemed......It dies and returns to dust. Our new creation in Christ is the redeemed part that goes to heaven and it CANNOT practice sin or sin at all.

And we can suppress/quench/grieve the Spirit and keep our new creation in Christ as a babe or we can CHOOSE to follow and walk in the Spirit and mature in Christ. But the new creation in Christ is going to heaven...............no matter what the believer does. He does not and WILL NOT destroy the new creation in Christ.......We are a PART of His uniquely born SON.

 

[Euphemia]

Eternal security teaches once justified always justified. Meaning your always in right standing with God no matter what you do!

Yeah that sounds good, just one problem...

Technically If your always justified, then your always forgiven of your sin, because anyone who needs forgiveness of sin, is not justified, they are guilty.

When a christian falls into sin, we repent for the forgiveness of sin. right? Of course! why else would we be repenting!

Technically the moment a christian falls into sin, he "becomes" and "remains" guilty until he repents of his sin.
How do I know this? Because he needs to repent in order to be forgiven of the sin he fell into. No repentence = no forgiveness.

Technically if a christian at any moment is not forgiven of a sin, then he is not JUSTIFIED. Which shows once justified always justified and once saved always saved is a lie.
No repentence = no forgiveness = no justification = not saved.

Show me in scripture where repentance is not for the forgiveness of sins and you will COMPLETELY destroy my claim. But you can't because we repent in order to receive forgiveness from God.

REPENTENCE was paid for by the blood of Jesus once and for all time! Now we no longer have to continually sacrifice animals but we can get down on our knees at any moment and start over! However some born again believers grieve the holy spirit and don't repent for whatever reason.

Repentence is for believers, not only sinners!

1:john 1:9 [If] "we" confess "our" sins, he is faithful and just to forgive "us" our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

" we, us, our, us" = hes talking to christians
[ if ] The word if means something is conditional. Here it was saying It's conditional for us to confess/repent , in order to be forgiven ! Which proves my point your not forgiven if you don't repent!

1 peter 4:18 If it is hard for a man who is right with God to be saved, what will happen to the sinner?

What is wrong with this is that people who choose to believe this are in a spiritual revolving door called, "saved - unsaved - saved - unsaved"...and the righteous standing we receive in Jesus just comes and goes according to behavior. We cannot earn our righteous standing. It is given to us like a cloak when our hearts are cleansed and made right with God by virtue of our becoming a member of His forever family through our faith in Jesus and what He did on the cross.

We can always trust God to keep His promises that He will keep us, and not allow us to be yanked out of His firm grip. Where is the faith of the person who thinks that God would ever lose us? That faith needs work, and needs to not be presuming to teach anyone.

.

 

[kathryn]

All believers ENTER the kingdom. Not all will INHERIT the kingdom. Just as the angels in heaven, humans will have different ranks and rewards. Some will be servants and some will be reigning with HIM. But all believers are IN heaven.

Anyone who is born of God, does not practice sin nor can he even sin..............the new creation in Christ. It is a creation that CANNOT sin. And we can CHOOSE to operate in the new creation or we can choose to operate in the old sin nature/flesh.

The old man/flesh/old sin nature is not saved nor is it redeemed......It dies and returns to dust. Our new creation in Christ is the redeemed part that goes to heaven and it CANNOT practice sin or sin at all.

And we can suppress/quench/grieve the Spirit and keep our new creation in Christ as a babe or we can CHOOSE to follow and walk in the Spirit and mature in Christ. But the new creation in Christ is going to heaven...............no matter what the believer does. He does not and WILL NOT destroy the new creation in Christ.......We are a PART of His uniquely born SON.

The bible does not agree with your view.
You are saying it does not matter how much a believer chooses to sin in the flesh they will attain heaven anyway.
That view is of man, not the bible

You didn't answer my question. In your view, according to your belief, are those who take the easy route- to use your words qualified to preach, or should they?

 

[gb9]

That is false !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We do have to put faith and trust in Jesus, that is our choice to choose who we serve.

God states it is our choice, Jesus says its our choice, and Paul says its our choice.....................

You take free will out of the equation by this understanding, and you also have God playing favoritism which His word clearly says He does not do.

All people are not going to be saved, even though Jesus died for all people.

The reason is because some will never put their faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and then from there you will have others (Goats) who claim Him to be their Lord but do not put their full trust in Him to be their Savior as well.

This is seen in Matthew 25's separation of the sheep and the goats, the goats thought they were saved to until they stood before Christ and He sent them to everlasting punishment instead.

By the OSAS or Hyper-Grace understandings then the goats should have been saved to, because they believed in Jesus as their Lord. Yet how they mistreated others by denying them cost them salvation, because Jesus told them by denying those people they denied Him.

This passage gets downplayed and stated as just unbelief, the goats were unbelievers.

But Jesus did not tell the goats they did not get eternal life because of unbelief, He told them it was because they denied helping others in need and that in turn is the same as denying Him.

Showing that denying the Lord is more then just you don't believe He exists !!!


The quality of life one lives is proof they are saved or not, and through Jesus and Paul both show that we still have the choice to choose who to follow and serve. That choice is not taken out of our hands.......

we are saved by grace. grace is a gift from God. it is not earned. if you can't get that part right, everything else you believe will be dead wrong.

 

[youmustrepent]

So in your understanding James and Paul are at odds with each other? Eph 2:8-10 cast a different light on your understanding of James 2:20.

Works and righteousness flow out of salvation. Works and righteousness do not flow into salvation. Salvation is wholly dependent upon God and not m

A man who has been changed by Gods grace can not become unsaved any more than a butterfly can once again revert to become a caterpillar.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No, Roger , James and Paul are not at odds with each other in the least. I am not sure what kind of understanding you mean about James 2:20. The text seems pretty clear. Faith apart from works cannot save you, period. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Yes, we are saved by the gift of God's grace through faith. The faith that obeys, believes, abides (works).

 

[KenAllan]

Romans 8:29-30
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:11
[SUP]11 [/SUP] In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

We have been predestined to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

Romans 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] no one understands; no one seeks for God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”


NO one seeks after God! NO one does good! NOT even ONE!


God chose us first, we did not chose Him first!


Everybody here is misunderstanding what James 2:20 is talking about. Abraham was JUSTIFIED by his works! He did not receive Salvation by his works!


The whole point in James 2:20 is about Justification, not about Salvation.


Its a sad day when so called Christians twist this Scripture to justify their working for their Salvation.

 

[bikerchaz]

Technically, if you commit sin and suddenly have a stroke and die before you can repent of it does that mean you go to hell or need purgatory?

No it means you face Judgement, It means you will stand before Christ and accept your fate from a God who will have mercy on whom He has mercy.
(There is no hell where satan rules with a pitchfork, and no purgatory, do you not read your scriptures?)

 

[bikerchaz]

Hi,

Here is one technical foul in the above statement in blue color. Try to analyze it first before you fouled out.

He cares,

? I see no problem. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

 

[bikerchaz]

Stop right there and you will have it.

If you really think it is that easy, go to the foot of the cross.

 

[bikerchaz]

Yes he was talking to christians but there were gnostics among the christians and when he said If "we" confess our sins he Is faithful to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness he was addressing the gnostics that were In the crowd.

Telling them that If they confess their sins that he(GOD)Is faithful to forgive them of their sins and cleanse them from all unrighteousness.

Once we have done this we are saved and sealed and there Is now no more condemnation to them that are In CHRIST JESUS.

GOD forgives us and then saves us and seals us'

but when It comes to living In a fallen world we need to confess and or forgive our neighbors whenever we offend them.

I agree with you except for the gnostic bit, we are saved we do have eternal life in Jesus, we have been bought with a price, the price of His death on the cross, but that does not mean we can't sin, or putting it another way it does not mean we cant spoil for ourselves what we have been given.
All the servants of the master were given talents to use but there was one who was rejected. All the Virgins were still virgins before and after the bridegroom came but only half of them were accepted. Paul talks about us being "grafted into" the root of the true vine but warns about the gardener having the right to ungraft us if we do not bare fruit fitting for the master. We as the Church have a responsibility for ourselves and those we see around us, and if this responsibility has moved MynameisDavid to write this message then so be it.

 

[Utah]

I warn you( christians) as I did before. Those who continue to live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God Galatians 5:21

That plainly opposes your message of no matter how a christian acts they will attain heaven

Jesus refutes your comment as found in John 5:24

I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has passed from death to life.

 

[kathryn]

Jesus refutes your comment as found in John 5:24

I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has passed from death to life.

Jesus refutes the words of Paul? Doesn't sound right to me

 

[Utah]

Jesus refutes the words of Paul? Doesn't sound right to me

Does Paul give you salvation? Silly girl.

 

[kathryn]

Does Paul give you salvation? Silly girl.

So your understanding of John 5:24 is Jesus saying:

Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. It doesn't matter if he then, murders, continually commits adultery, is a habitual theif, constantly takes my fathers name in vain, he
Will receive eternal life no matter how he acts.

That isn't my understanding of Jesus message

 

[Josefnospam]

So you don't believe God when he says "I give eternal Life."............He has done it all and all we need do is believe him.....now and forever I am glad I am not under the keeping of the law. I rest in my God's saving grace and finished work, and hope you can also rest in him.............God bless you as only he can do

 

[kathryn]

So you don't believe God when he says "I give eternal Life."............He has done it all and all we need do is believe him.....now and forever I am glad I am not under the keeping of the law. I rest in my God's saving grace and finished work, and hope you can also rest in him.............God bless you as only he can do

I don't believe a person can follow after the flesh all of their life, act however they like and still attain heaven no

Not being under the laws comes with a but:

But if you are led by the spirit you are not under law Gal5:18