ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, HYPER GRACE, ETERNAL SECURITY = FALSE DOCTRINE PROVEN!

[KennethC]

LOL..did you not "read" where the gospel was preached by Peter and Paul..no repentance ( your view of stopping sinning ) was called for....but they did repent..they turned to the Lord....stopping from sinning is a "fruit" of repentance..it is not repentance...the fruit of turning to the Lord is that we get His life..and it's His life that changes us..not us...it's His life flowing through us..that casues changes to the believer....

Your wrong on both accounts as both of them did preach repentance, but you choose to pick out certain scriptures that don't have the word repentance in them to say look no repentance.

I can do that to if I wanted to but it does not make it right or the truth !!!

Both Peter and Paul preached on repentance, and the reason that Paul did not preach on repentance that much was because he was trying to lead believers to walk in a way (by the fruit of the Holy Spirit) so there would be no need to repent again. Because staying in that fruit will lead one on the proper path, even Peter stated that by the fruit of the Spirit will keep us from stumbling.

You used also passages from Acts 10 through Acts 15, do you even know what was happening in those passages and why these select Gentile believers received the Holy Spirit before baptism ???

Peter and Paul both preached on repentance !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

There are 2 aspects to grace.

1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you". It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.

2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace. Empowering grace enables you to be who the father sees you are in Christ now.


The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you." The grace of God speaks of better things!

Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!

Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.

 

[Utah]

I thought you were better then this Hoffco ???

Better than what? Man, you're proving yourself to be more of a Pharisee with each post.

 

[Grace777x70]

Many of our fellow believers are caught up in stuff for various reasons....some become prodigals.....others stay "in church"..but both sons did not know the father....

it's in the acceptance that love grows..

acceptance grace is very hard for us humans to grasp because it is against everything in this world that we are taught...and to make it worse..it is against what the Old Covenant is saying.

So, when we mix up the covenants.....we get a messed up gospel...

and this is one of the reasons so many Christians have left the organized church..they can't live the religious life and they don't want to be a hypocrite..and others are caught in sin and they don't know how to be free....the gospel of the grace of Christ is the only answer.

Grace is everything..from the understanding and living from this flows all other things..

Ephesians 2:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

 

[Hoffco]

Utah, the Scripture is 1cor 11:32 . Plus all the other passages that teach "once saved always saved". The eternal Cov. of GRACE Rom.8:29-30 etc.

 

[KennethC]

He just doesn't get it. So sad.

People say we diminish the integrity of God's grace by believing we can sin and still be saved. I say people diminish the integrity of Jesus' work on the Cross by believing God's grace is not sufficient for those who love and trust Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

I understand it just fine and so did the Apostles John and James who said we are drawn away when we sin, and we are in darkness when we sin.

Sin/darkness does not exist in or fellowship with the Light !!!

Trying to take the focus off of sin as being an issue is a way of excusing it to continue. God's grace does not allow lewdness to continue in our lives, it is that simple !!!

 

[Hoffco]

Grace, you said a mouth full, It is so sickening what men like Chuch Swindol have done to the church today.

 

[royalscot]

history, don t water down, it is the difference between proving ,fact and fiction.

for example.
break one sin, you break them all. why should we ponder sin,

you cant prove the law of moses was given to a gentile. yet we can prove, there is an acts 15.

 

[Grace777x70]

Alright..we have the "word for word" sermons spoken by Peter and Paul when they preached the gospel...sorry..no repentance. ( there was repentance but not the Old Covenant way )

.I know our religious backgrounds says..there has to be repentance..but what they mean by repentance and what the scriptures in the New testament say..are way different..

This is a knife to the throat of one of our "sacred cows"....and it offends us....I know..it offended me too when I first heard of it...

Your wrong on both accounts as both of them did preach repentance, but you choose to pick out certain scriptures that don't have the word repentance in them to say look no repentance.

I can do that to if I wanted to but it does not make it right or the truth !!!

Both Peter and Paul preached on repentance, and the reason that Paul did not preach on repentance that much was because he was trying to lead believers to walk in a way (by the fruit of the Holy Spirit) so there would be no need to repent again. Because staying in that fruit will lead one on the proper path, even Peter stated that by the fruit of the Spirit will keep us from stumbling.

You used also passages from Acts 10 through Acts 15, do you even know what was happening in those passages and why these select Gentile believers received the Holy Spirit before baptism ???

Peter and Paul both preached on repentance !!!

 

[KennethC]

Utah, the Scripture is 1cor 11:32 . Plus all the other passages that teach "once saved always saved". The eternal Cov. of GRACE Rom.8:29-30 etc.

What ???

1 Corinthians 11:32 does not say God will put some to death before they get to lost in their sinful ways.

That is speaking on our Lord chastising us by the Holy Spirit to correct us, as this scripture parallels Hebrews 12 !!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

acceptance grace is very hard for us humans to grasp because it is against everything in this world that we are taught...and to make it worse..it is against what the Old Covenant is saying.

So, when we mix up the covenants.....we get a messed up gospel...

Funny you should mention that. Do you believe the New Grace teaching that "rightfully dividing the truth" means that Jews under the old covenant were proclaimed one gospel, and we gentiles are proclaimed another gospel? And that the 4 gospel accounts were only for the Jews under the old covenant, and are not for gentile believers?

 

[Utah]

Utah, the Scripture is 1cor 11:32 . Plus all the other passages that teach "once saved always saved". The eternal Cov. of GRACE Rom.8:29-30 etc.

I'm with you on this, brother. Your heart shows love, but this whole, elect thing, weakens the power of the Cross and Empty Tomb. If we don't have free will then why should people give a damn about anything? You're either elect or your not, and if we can't do anything about it then let's eat, drink and be merry. Not for nothing, I do not believe God deliberately created people for destruction. We are all elect; some choose to stay that way, others choose not to.

 

[Grace777x70]

I believe Jesus is the "elect" one and we are in Him.

 

[Gr8grace]

There are 2 aspects to grace.

1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you". It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.

2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace. Empowering grace enables you to be who the father sees you are in Christ now.


The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you." The grace of God speaks of better things!

Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!

Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.

Grace is the power to change.If we aren't even sure about our own salvation(but the intent is "I am saved,but I don't really know about YOU?") and His Grace to us.........We go nowhere in the Christian way of life. We may know and recite scriptures,go to seminary,have a theology learned and memorized, know the original languages,be sweet and nice, very well liked,do missions,feed the poor..........but we haven't even left the starting blocks when it comes to the Christian way of life.

 

[KennethC]

Alright..we have the "word for word" sermons spoken by Peter and Paul when they preached the gospel...sorry..no repentance. ( there was repentance but not the Old Covenant way )

.I know our religious backgrounds says..there has to be repentance..but what they mean by repentance and what the scriptures in the New testament say..are way different..

This is a knife to the throat of one of our "sacred cows"....and it offends us....I know..it offended me too when I first heard of it...

What are you considering Old covenant way ???

If you are talking about what Jesus said on repentance in the gospel books then that is not the Old covenant way, His teachings was for the New covenant.

Peter continued teaching that same standard of repentance in Acts 2, and Paul also stated the same wishes all would come to repentance and that godly sorrow would bring us to repentance.

The repentance they were speaking on was the change to turn from our old sinful nature, and be risen with Christ in a new nature walking by the Spirit.

 

[royalscot]

Funny you should mention that. Do you believe the New Grace teaching that "rightfully dividing the truth" means that Jews under the old covenant were proclaimed one gospel, and we gentiles are proclaimed another gospel? And that the 4 gospel accounts were only for the Jews under the old covenant, and are not for gentile believers?

is there any gentile converts, in the gospel.

mixing act2 and acts 10 only show, gospel was not spoken to a gentile.( it was read) and quoted with no proof of history. ie no gentiles at acts 2 all were jewish at act 2. etc

 

[Utah]

I understand it just fine and so did the Apostles John and James who said we are drawn away when we sin, and we are in darkness when we sin.

Sin/darkness does not exist in or fellowship with the Light !!!

Trying to take the focus off of sin as being an issue is a way of excusing it to continue. God's grace does not allow lewdness to continue in our lives, it is that simple !!!

You sound like you have pent up frustrations. I spend more time rejoicing in grace because my heart, mind and eyes are focused upon God, while you focus on sin, thereby showing that you focus more on people and less on God.

 

[KennethC]

Better than what? Man, you're proving yourself to be more of a Pharisee with each post.

Who is the one that came on here and started insulting people and passing false allegations on others ???

That is the way of the Pharisee my friend and is not what I am doing, also the Pharisees perverted and corrupted God's laws for self gain.

I am not seeking to gain anything for myself by giving all of God's gospel message from Jesus, I am trying to win souls to Jesus and pull them out of false doctrine before it is to late.

Which that is another thing I have seen hyper grace or osasers say on here, "doctrinal differences don't matter."

Paul warns strictly on this issue of following another gospel and another Jesus, and the now staying in sound doctrine.

 

[KennethC]

is there any gentile converts, in the gospel.

mixing act2 and acts 10 only show, gospel was not spoken to a gentile.( it was read) and quoted with no proof of history. ie no gentiles at acts 2 all were jewish at act 2. etc

What ???

Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, Corinthians......<----These are all Gentile churches !!!

 

[Gr8grace]

I'm with you on this, brother. Your heart shows love, but this whole, elect thing, weakens the power of the Cross and Empty Tomb. If we don't have free will then why should people give a damn about anything? You're either elect or your not, and if we can't do anything about it then let's eat, drink and be merry. Not for nothing, I do not believe God deliberately created people for destruction. We are all elect; some choose to stay that way, others choose not to.

He elected all men for salvation............Just believe.

Good Stuff Brother. My God does not create a person for destruction. He creates them for salvation. Not willing that any should perish. Some just don't BELIEVE Him.