Are we sinners?

[Grace777x70]

ya'll from Texas??...I used to live there..loved the accent and sayings

I love that word "reckon".

 

[crossnote]

It's by the Spirit that we are putting to death the deeds of the body.

Romans 8:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

We are transformed by the Spirit of God as we behold Christ in our inner man. When we see Him - we see ourselves in Him.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Are being transformed = present passive

present tense = continuous action

passive voice = something being acted upon you - you are not doing it

As we see who we are in Christ - we by the Holy Spirit are transformed into His image. Christ/Holy Spirit/ Father all inhabit our new creations in Christ.

It is really an outward manifestation of what is already true within our new man in Christ.

Our "old man" ( which had the Adam nature in it ) was crucified with Christ as most other Christians have heard of before or should know. If this is not recognized we will be off in our understanding of the new creation in Christ. Christ and true believers in Him are united in our spirit which has been created in righteousness and true holiness. This is our new man - our true identity now.

We still have a body with flesh and the power of sin in it which is why we need to put to death the deeds of the body and this is done by the Spirit within - transforming us. This is where the Life of the Vine in us produces fruit in our outward lives. We are saved by His life.

Our body is simply a house for our new man but it still has the flesh/power of sin in it. This is not our identity. ( which is why we will get a new body )

Paul in Romans say that people are either "in the flesh" ( unbelievers with their old man still attached to the body with the power of sin in it ) or "in the Spirit" ( believers - with the nature of Christ in our inner man now ) - there is only one identity.

Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

It's in the "knowing " that our old man is dead is where things start to come together concerning sinning or walking according to the Spirit and to start to have an understanding of the new creation in Christ.

Romans 6:6-8 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with ( to make useless), so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, It's by the life of Christ in our inner man is how we live now!

So, this is not about denying things....or having a mind game going on with oneself...it's all about spiritual awareness of who we are now in Christ in our new man...the new creation in Christ...the hidden man of the heart...this is our true self. It's all about awareness of us being in union with Christ.

Baby Christians have no idea of who they are in Him yet...they identify with their old man still - not seeing the new creation we are in Christ. These baby brothers can be Christians for 50 years...even be pastors in a church..deacons.....etc.

We all need to grow up in Him! We need all of our brothers and sisters in the Lord to mature.

Ephesians 4:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

I wasn't objecting to that aspect. I was objecting to those who deny this aspect of our walk...

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

[FreeNChrist]

ya'll from Texas??...I used to live there..loved the accent and sayings

Nope. I'm in Michigan, and digging out of the snow........wishing I was in Texas today.....

 

[crossnote]

As far as how to deal with sinning...the answer I believe is in seeing who you are in Christ now....our new self has been created in righteousness and holiness...when we see Him and us in Him...we become outwardly what we are inwardly in our new spirit....this is how to "put to death" the deeds of the body.

Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness..when you see who you are in Him in your new man..you become like Him outwardly.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.


Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells..

Imbalance in this area leads to Quietism.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Imbalance in this area leads to Quietism.

What is it that you think we "balance" Grace with??

 

[crossnote]

This is one thing I don't like about the Modern/New/Hyper Grace mvmt. It teaches to focus on who we supposedly are (our identity), rather than the work of Christ himself which is what actually saves us, i.e., the blood that forgives all sin, right here, right now. "When I see the blood, I will pass over you..."

And the Risen Christ with whom we are to be in communion with.
Good point about focusing on self.

 

[ladylynn]

The flesh is not a sin nature. And I have already corrected what you are now slanderously again falsely claiming about myself.

Not sure why rational people could think they are succeeding in a discussion when they wrongly represent the person who disagrees with them?

Christians here who are seeking to share grace in it's fullness are not saying they are sinless in their flesh, they are learning HOW TO SIN LESS. None of us have claimed sinless perfection.

Personally., if the only way someone can "win" (if that is what they are seeking while we discuss the Bible) if the only way to make sense of their opinion is by mis representing what someone has said than they are not really winning anything.

Are we not supposed to be 'reasoning together'?????? Isn't the goal - our goal - for us to come closer to understanding the truth as Christians here on CC?

 

[crossnote]

We no longer have 2 natures., the old man was put to death on the cross and we died., we are to 'recon ourselves dead to sin' Romans 6:11

We do not have a CIVIL WAR going on inside us. We have the memory/habit of living going on of how our minds and bodies used to live and think for our very life's existence. We depended on ourselves. We relied on how we thought and what we did. BUT NOW we are called to live a new way. Why do you suppose we are admonished to repent and have our minds actively changed from the inside out by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God?

Maybe that is why so many of us are not walking in the fullness of Christ as we could be. We don't agree with God on so many matters of what the Bible says and instead go with how we feel and what we understand in our humaness. Although He has given us a new spirit (of power and love and a sound mind) many Christians don't change to be what we already are IN Christ.

We have to agree with God when He said you are dead., and your life is now hid in Christ in God..... Col.3:2 Paul is making his appeal here to become IN experience what we ALREADY ARE by God's grace. We are risen in new life with Christ and our old man is DEAD.

Why don't more of us Christians live out who we are in Christ and have daily joy and victory? It's obvious, look at the 62.86% who identify themselves as sinners. If we want to be like Christ we can't believe our life is based on how WE think and feel ANYMORE., We are told to CHANGE YOUR MIND. Repent.. And that is a daily repentance/change of mind.

We are to reckon ourselves dead...implies we are not dead, but we are to Count ourselves as good as dead. There still is the struggle until that Day.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

We no longer have 2 natures., the old man was put to death on the cross and we died., we are to 'recon ourselves dead to sin' Romans 6:11

Like I said earlier: a faith rooted in denial.

 

[Gr8grace]

The flesh is not a sin nature. And I have already corrected what you are now slanderously again falsely claiming about myself.

Hi Free. could you expound on "the flesh is not a sin nature?" I have always used them as one in the same.

 

[crossnote]

And there ya go., our flesh will lust against the Spirit because it needs to be renewed. It's already been put to death...now recon it., believe it and walk it out. or else "you cannot do the things that you would" only because the old way of thinking in your mind is NOT in agreement with what Jesus has done, but it can be by agreeing with what Jesus has done for us already.

Too many believers are trying to DO WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE. We are free from the dominion of sin., how? By what Jesus already did..now recon it to be so.,walk it out work out your own salvation with fear and trembling... in awe in seriousness / single mindedness.

If the flesh has been put to death, how come we are told to put it to death?

 

[Grace777x70]

Ahh...yes..we certainly do have to control our body!..mine never wants top exercise but it does seem to want to eat all the time.

I agree 100% that we need to discipline our body and make it our slave as Paul says...

It's interesting the term KJV uses .."keep under " my body is only used 2x in the NT...the word actually means = “to strike under the eye”...It refers to a constant beating...it certainly sounds like Paul really subdued his body to do what HE wanted it to do and not give in to it....


Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Sigma-Omega.

I wasn't objecting to that aspect. I was objecting to those who deny this aspect of our walk...

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

How else can we have victory unless we DO focus on who the Bible says we are and NOT what WE THINK we are??? What we think does not have value when it contradicts the Word of God. Get rid of it and repent/change your mind to agree with what He says.

We achieve the victory (overcome) over sin by focusing on what Christ has done for us, not by focusing on our selves. His blood is what saves us, not our identity.

 

[crossnote]

What is it that you think we "balance" Grace with??

You imbalance Grace with a form of Quietism. Just 'reckon' and all is done for you.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Ummm, you left out the "in Christ" part there....it's who we are in Christ. Christ IS the focus.

Not with folks who follow the Modern/New/Hyper Grace delusion. Focus is on self because they believe they are the righteousness of GOD in Christ. Bible doesn't say that anywhere. Christ alone is the righteousness of GOD.

 

[kathryn]

Sin is overcome, not your master by living under grace, not law. You can only sin in your flesh
It is a puzzle to me, but a few who believe only they understand true grace keep impressing in the flesh christians are always a slave to sin, sin is therefore their master.
That oppose Paul's message of grace

 

[Grace777x70]

We are not schizophrenic Christians with 2 natures...that is ridiculous...that's like saying we are a man and a woman at the same time...

We are in the flesh...but the flesh is not the real us..the body is our earth suit if you will...the body itself is not evil..it's the flesh that is in it that also has the power of sin in it....and this "sin" in our flesh will remain until we die physically .

If we don not understand our true identity in Christ..our whole Christian walk will be stunned. We will remain baby Christians no matter how much "bible knowledge " we have....

But if people want to think they have multiple identities.....then go for it....but we will never grow up in Him by believing gin this way.

 

[ladylynn]

Like I said earlier: a faith rooted in denial.

Now what kind of a thing is that for you to write?? A faith rooted in denial?? It's rooted in what the Bible says and not how I feel. I see no point in insulting other believers HeRose., why do you do that?
what kind of fruit do you think that will yield in our conversations here? Does it bring you satisfaction when you put someone down like that? What's the point???

 

[FreeNChrist]

Hi Free. could you expound on "the flesh is not a sin nature?" I have always used them as one in the same.

That's a good question and long overdue. It might be better to know what it isn't. It's not an old man, old self, old nature, sin-nature, self-nature, Adam-nature, human nature, a murderer or a boogeyman. What it is, the flesh (sarx), as it is used in reference to our behavior is those patterns of selfish and sinful action and reaction within our desires.

 

[Gr8grace]

And there ya go., our flesh will lust against the Spirit because it needs to be renewed. It's already been put to death...now recon it., believe it and walk it out. or else "you cannot do the things that you would" only because the old way of thinking in your mind is NOT in agreement with what Jesus has done, but it can be by agreeing with what Jesus has done for us already.

Too many believers are trying to DO WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE. We are free from the dominion of sin., how? By what Jesus already did..now recon it to be so.,walk it out work out your own salvation with fear and trembling... in awe in seriousness / single mindedness.

Thats whats tough...............we are already PERFECT being in Christ, we just don't realize it yet.

our inheritance is in our account. This is where work is involved. We need to grow in grace and knowledge to fully realize what is already there.

New American Standard Bible
Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything,