Are we sinners?

[FreeNChrist]

huh? If you were pointing people to Christ you wouldn't believe in a hyper grace doctrine that says you do not have to follow Christ's teachings. Christ sasys abide in me and that all who do not are gathered up and casted into the fire. Abide means remain in His teaching not cast it aside as unessacery.

Just more mischaracterization of what is actually believed mixed in with a good dose of religiosity masquerading as Christianity.

 

[KennethC]

The more familiar we get with walking in the grace that Jesus bought for us., and as the HolySpirit reveals the manner of man we once were and are reminded of as we go through the process., we find we need the grace of God as we are allowed to see the depths of the human soul without Christ.

We are allowed see how God knew us before we were saved and saved us while we were yet sinners. We are assured of His love and BY FAITH we walk in that love because the Holy Spirit gives us a revelation of the love and grace of God and the salvation that is SO GREAT it defies human reason. The Bible says "who is he who over cometh?? he that believes in Jesus., it is these who are the overcomers. It is NOT that we become overcomers by obedience and then become worthy for eternal life. No never.

Why do Christians keep messing up that verse in the Bible. 1 John 5:5 AND WHO IS THE ONE WHO OVERCOMES THE WORLD, BUT HE WHO BELIEVES THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD.

What messes up God's grace is when people trying to separate the walk in the faith from the faith itself.

Paul, James, John, and Peter do not teach in this way that they are separate, they teach they go hand and hand !!!

Where do you think they get that mindset in their teachings from ???

They got it from Jesus Himself who taught we would know who are His by the fruit produced through them.

Apostle John is the clearest on this teaching that how a believer walks can not be separated from the faith, as he repeats that if a person acts a certain way or treats a person badly the Truth/eternal life is not in them.

This is because the Holy Spirit abiding in us will help to lead us to walk in His ways and not continue in our own sinful ways. The new nature He puts in us will want to be obedient to Him, and the fruit from the Holy Spirit that we are to add to our lives is the complete opposite of the sinful behaviors we previously walked in.

Again what is the word used in 1 John 5:5 ??? It is the word BELIEVE !!!

Believe is not an inactive word and it does not refer to a past completed action, it is a continuous action !!!

When we come to Christ and put our trust in Him, that is not the end of the faith. It is only the beginning !!!

 

[FreeNChrist]

You got to it before I did.

And you expanded on it...it's all good.

 

[KennethC]

The Gospel is about how while we were STILL YET SINNERS Christ died for us. In all our human depravity Still, God sent Jesus the Saviour., then Jesus promised to send the Comforter to guide us into all truth. He wants us to know our salvation has NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR WORKS or our human goodness or heart efforts. We are depraved individuals in NEED of Jesus righteousness. That is good news for those of us who know we NEED HIM. He came for sinners NOT the righteous people who stand on their own good merits.

Even after we are saved we have the flesh that is capable of lewdness kenneth. And if you say your mind has not been capable of any evil thoughts you would be fooling yourself. The only way we can walk away from the power of sin is by faith we recon ourselves dead to it. By faith it has no power over us.

By faith we believed on Christ and by faith we claim the promises. We are now to live BY FAITH AND NOT BY SIGHT. Grace teaches us how to deny ungodliess and worldly lusts., how to live soberly and righteously and godly IN THIS PRESENT WORLD.

Not by our old manner of living and thinking. How many more ways can it be said. We live and move and have our being in Him. Jesus gives us love and grace and the more we walk in those things the less interested our desire will be to fulfill the lusts of the flesh. We turn from those old ways and walk in newness of life.

Thoughts alone are not sin that is a big misconception by men's doctrines !!!

You give a partial picture of God's grace, as yes Christ died while we were still sinners. But the other side of His grace does not allow that lewdness to continue in our lives, which is why the Holy Spirit was sent to us.

So that we don't remain in the same sinful behavioral state we once were in, and again faith is an action word not an inactive word.

The scripture you use about living by faith and not by sight only applies to the belief we have in our Lord Jesus. It does not apply to how we are to walk and carry ourselves as believers !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

We need to rightly divide what the Lord has spoken..sometimes he was speaking to those that were depending on their own works for righteousness..these He gave the law.of Moses 2.0 style to reveal their need for a Savior.

To others that acknowledged they needed a Savior..He gave them grace in his words to them.

If we just blindly followed all the words spoken without the context..we would be in trouble..

For example..

Jesus said.."Go into all the world and preach the gospel..in Jerusalem first..then to Samaria..etc..".

.have any of us done this?

..do we go to Jerusalem first?....if not....then we are not following all of Jesus's commands...and thus in a religious mindset..we are not abiding in Christ and then we are going to go to hell for our disobedience...

So,..,you see brother....we need to rightly divide the words of our Lord to us.

huh? If you were pointing people to Christ you wouldn't believe in a hyper grace doctrine that says you do not have to follow Christ's teachings. Christ sasys abide in me and that all who do not are gathered up and casted into the fire. Abide means remain in His teaching not cast it aside as unessacery.

 

[KennethC]

Galatians 5:13

For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.


This scripture is about not using the liberty we have in Christ to continue on living sinful lives, giving into our fleshly desires. Paul gives a strict warning along with this that those who do continue to give into the flesh living those sinful lifestyles will not receive eternal life.

 

[ladylynn]

Some seem to have the view that if you believe in the whole message you don't understand grace. I would say those who only concentrate on part of the message don't understand the whole.
Yes, Jesus died for all your sins at calvary, you are not under law but under grace. You can have no confidence in yourself to change yourself. You have to look to Christ and trust him to change you through the power of the Holy Spirit. And whilst he is doing this you are imperfect in your flesh. Praise God, your imperfections are not held against you, Jesus died for all of them, you are free. Rejoice! You are at peace with God, for you have no righteous of your own before him

Now if you say you can follow after the flesh, rather than the spirit and still experience all of the above, I say you do not understand grace, you are just kidding yourselves

Of course we believe in ALL the Bible says. Grace teaches us.,the Holy Spirit teaches us. We don't earn grace. but we do surrender to it and allow God to do His perfect will in us to teach us. All of us who are saved have the HolySpirit and our new born again spirit.

We make ourselves available to learn. No one here says you can or want to follow after the flesh. How could someone who has experienced and known the love of Jesus want to go off and sin? Why do people give those kinds of scenarios? Because in the human reasoning of it all, they

 

[kathryn]

What's the "whole message"?

It includes the part you refuse to answer questions about

 

[kathryn]

That is not true...we are still trying to get people to understand the acceptance grace..without that..you have a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset..

Once people can get over that first hurtle of unbelief in acceptance grace..then the other aspect of grace kicks in..

...here is the difference between them and how the religious mindset "look" at grace.

There are 2 aspects to grace.

1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you".

It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.

2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace. Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now.


The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you." The grace of God speaks of better things!

Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!

Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.


What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based gospel have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part...this just drives them nuts...and I understand why..it is scandalous!

Tell us what we don't understand about grace

 

[Grace777x70]

Kenneth...have you gone to Jerusalem ..or to Samaria yet as our Lord commanded?..what?..you haven't?

You are in complete disobedience to His commands and thus that means you don't love Him..nor are you "abiding in Him"..you are doomed to hell now because of your complete disregard for those commands!

This is all foolishness as we have to rightly divide the word of truth..

remember..don't take someone else's medicine!...and Oh...Kenneth....Jesus' blood shed for you will make sure you are in heaven with Him......He loves you dearly and you are in His hands!....He is a wonderful Lord and Savior to us!..He can be trusted......We have a good, loving Father too!

Thoughts alone are not sin that is a big misconception by men's doctrines !!!

You give a partial picture of God's grace, as yes Christ died while we were still sinners. But the other side of His grace does not allow that lewdness to continue in our lives, which is why the Holy Spirit was sent to us.

So that we don't remain in the same sinful behavioral state we once were in, and again faith is an action word not an inactive word.

The scripture you use about living by faith and not by sight only applies to the belief we have in our Lord Jesus. It does not apply to how we are to walk and carry ourselves as believers !!!

 

[KennethC]

We need to rightly divide what the Lord has spoken..sometimes he was speaking to those that were depending on their own works for righteousness..these He gave the law.of Moses 2.0 style to reveal their need for a Savior.

To others that acknowledged they needed a Savior..He gave them grace in his words to them.

If we just blindly followed all the words spoken without the context..we would be in trouble..

For example..

Jesus said.."Go into all the world and preach the gospel..in Jerusalem first..then to Samaria..etc..".

.have any of us done this?

..do we go to Jerusalem first?....if not....then we are not following all of Jesus's commands...and thus in a religious mindset..we are not abiding in Christ and then we are going to go to hell for our disobedience...

So,..,you see brother....we need to rightly divide the words of our Lord to us.

You are playing petty games with God's word now, come on just please stop with this nonsense..........

The scripture that eternallife7 brought up applies to all of us, but the one you bring up applied to the original Apostles when He sent them off to spread the good news.

That scripture you are speaking of has already been done, we however are still to spread the Word of God with anybody we come across.

Playing semantic's with God's word is not a good approach to take with others !!!

 

[Gr8grace]

and the fruit from the Holy Spirit that we are to add to our lives is the complete opposite of the sinful behaviors we previously walked in.

This is where most are deceived Ken. Many believers are stuck on this one.

Many,many,many,many of the ways we walked and walk now that are not of the Spirit...........are very much LIKE the fruits of the Spirit. We have a good/evil/self-righteous side and a sinful side to our flesh.

New American Standard Bible
But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

We need to constantly check our motives, because the "good" side of our flesh can deceive us into thinking we are operating in the Spirit..............because they are very much ALIKE. Just one is evil and one is good.

 

[kathryn]

Of course we believe in ALL the Bible says. Grace teaches us.,the Holy Spirit teaches us. We don't earn grace. but we do surrender to it and allow God to do His perfect will in us to teach us. All of us who are saved have the HolySpirit and our new born again spirit.

We make ourselves available to learn. No one here says you can or want to follow after the flesh. How could someone who has experienced and known the love of Jesus want to go off and sin? Why do people give those kinds of scenarios? Because in the human reasoning of it all, they

But one of your number does say if you constantly follow after the flesh all of your life you still attain heaven.

 

[Grace777x70]

I have no idea what you believe about grace....that is between you and your Lord!....I'm just stating what I believe grace is...people don't need to "project" things onto yourself....and I am definitely not going to be engaging on any projections....so I encourage you to carry on with your loving Lord..He loves you dearly!

Tell us what we don't understand about grace

 

[KennethC]

Kenneth...have you gone to Jerusalem ..or to Samaria yet as our Lord commanded?..what?..you haven't?

You are in complete disobedience to His commands and thus that means you don't love Him..nor are you "abiding in Him"..you are doomed to hell now because of your complete disregard for those commands!

This is all foolishness as we have to rightly divide the word of truth..

remember..don't take someone else's medicine!...and Oh...Kenneth....Jesus' blood shed for you will make sure you are in heaven with Him......He loves you dearly and you are in His hands!....He is a wonderful Lord and Savior to us!..He can be trusted......We have a good, loving Father too!

Stop playing semantic's Grace777x70, that is not a command to us to go to Jerusalem and Samaria !!!

What I said is not foolishness, it is only foolish to those who keep Christ hanging on that cross instead of placing Him as a risen Lord that He His !!!

Christ is risen and so are we to be risen with Him in all demeanor !!!

 

[kathryn]

I have no idea what you believe about grace....that is between you and your Lord!....I'm just stating what I believe grace is...people don't need to "project" things onto yourself....and I am definitely not going to be engaging on any projections....so I encourage you to carry on with your loving Lord..He loves you dearly!

But you constantly tell us
Those of us in the grace camp......
Meaning those who agree with your version of grace if you are honest.
So what do those believe who are in the grace camp that those outside of it dont believe?

 

[Grace777x70]

It does however expose the mindset behind things...anyone can say "It's God's word"..so you have to believe me..if we do not go and check out that particular scripture in context....we will be led astray..no matter how many times we use the name of God..Holy Spirit, word of God..etc.

You are playing petty games with God's word now, come on just please stop with this nonsense..........

The scripture that eternallife7 brought up applies to all of us, but the one you bring up applied to the original Apostles when He sent them off to spread the good news.

That scripture you are speaking of has already been done, we however are still to spread the Word of God with anybody we come across.

Playing semantic's with God's word is not a good approach to take with others !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen!....Yes..we are risen with Christ!..that is a so true!...again Kenneth..it's the acceptance gracew that causes a stumbling block to people..

we all agree what a person's life should look like if they walk according to the Spirit within them...

Stop playing semantic's Grace777x70, that is not a command to us to go to Jerusalem and Samaria !!!

What I said is not foolishness, it is only foolish to those who keep Christ hanging on that cross instead of placing Him as a risen Lord that He His !!!

Christ is risen and so are we to be risen with Him in all demeanor !!!

 

[kathryn]

Of course we believe in ALL the Bible says. Grace teaches us.,the Holy Spirit teaches us. We don't earn grace. but we do surrender to it and allow God to do His perfect will in us to teach us. All of us who are saved have the HolySpirit and our new born again spirit.

We make ourselves available to learn. No one here says you can or want to follow after the flesh. How could someone who has experienced and known the love of Jesus want to go off and sin? Why do people give those kinds of scenarios? Because in the human reasoning of it all, they

So you accept if you are led by the spirit you are not under lawGal5:18

 

[KennethC]

This is where most are deceived Ken. Many believers are stuck on this one.

Many,many,many,many of the ways we walked and walk now that are not of the Spirit...........are very much LIKE the fruits of the Spirit. We have a good/evil/self-righteous side and a sinful side to our flesh.

New American Standard Bible
But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

We need to constantly check our motives, because the "good" side of our flesh can deceive us into thinking we are operating in the Spirit..............because they are very much ALIKE. Just one is evil and one is good.

Do you not have the Holy Spirit guiding in you and helping you ???

You talk sometimes like I have seen others on here talk as if they are all alone, and this no victory or no overcoming mindset is a sign of that.

Paul compared the faith in Christ to a race, yet some of you on here act as if the race has already been ran !!!

This is why I think some of you would treat Paul as a heretic now days, because He did not treat God's grace in a way that He could just sit back and do nothing. He taught on that our role is a very active one, striving, standing firm, and ever growing being careful not to be lead astray !!!