Are we sinners?

[FreeNChrist]

Irenaeus was taught the faith by Polycarp who was taught the faith by the apostle John. I guess you think these men were perverted also.

And what he taught can still be seen in the erroneous dogma of the Roman Catholic Church today. His teachings are not inspired, nor was his understanding infallible.

 

[Grace777x70]

Oh No!..now you went and "done did it"......there is that knife to the throat of a "sacred cow"..again..!

And what he taught can still be seen in the erroneous dogma of the Roman Catholic Church today. His teachings are not inspired, nor was his understanding infallible.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Now answer this question. If David, Moses followed God as faithful, righteous people like we do, having fellowship with God, and they praised and uplifted the written law with these words, how can anyone claim to be following the same tradition and say "No one remembers the ten commandments."

This is apostacy and heresy. It also demonstrates pure ignorance of simple morality that is fulfilled by love through Jesus.
It is easy to be deceived, to follow those who appear angels of light but are full of darkness, but one key sign is when the word of the Lord is denied, the very words God spoke to Israel.

“Morality helps most when it has the least to object to. If it is a guide at all, it is a guide to perfecting one’s virtues, not the reform of one’s vices. It keeps non-gamblers from being foolish at the racetrack. It does not keep child abusers from beating children, compulsive liars from lying, or lechers from leching. For those in the front lines of their faults, it is just a lovely, cruel vision of a home they cannot get to. The law only makes sin exceedingly sinful; it never saved anyone who really needed help.” -Robert Farrar Capon

 

[VCO]

If our old man has not died..then neither has Jesus because we died with Him. However Jesus died..we died the same death. We need to be focusing on who we are now because we have been raised with Him.

Romans 6:5-8 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, Without the understanding of the new creation in Christ we will be at the mercy of every thought that comes to us. This is where the renewing of the mind transforms us.

We have thee conflicts with the flesh and we call it the Old man. We have 3 enemies here...the devil, the flesh ( the old habits and ways of thinking and doing things ..this flesh ahs the power of sin in it too) and the ways/philosophy of the world

It's in the growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ that we discover what a great salvation we have in Jesus. When we acknowledge who we are in Christ because of His finished work..we start to live the true Christian life full of peace and joy....overflowing with love.

Philemon 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.



1 John 5:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

NOW, since HE commanded that we are to submit to every ordinance of man, past, present, and future; then failing to do so FOR WHAT EVER REASON, most certainly is a sin. The only exception would be if the ordinance of man was commanding us to do something against GOD's Will. So even if you are talking to your spouse, intently while driving, and because of it, you failed to notice you just went by a speed sign that dropped the speed limit that you set your cruse control on, from 65 mph to 55 mph; it STILL IS A SIN, and the cop with the radar on you will certainly agree.

NOW explain to me how that fits in with your THEORY above?

 

[VCO]

LOL. Thanks for the laugh.

Does that mean your right foot is not saved, and you are one of those who does not pick up your dog's poop in the public park that has an City ordinance commanding you to do so?

 

[VCO]

Our dear brother Paulus:

15. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? God forbid.

16. Know ye not, that to whom ye present yourselves as servants unto obedience, his servants ye are whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17. But thanks be to God, that, whereas ye were servants of sin, ye became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching whereunto ye were delivered;

18. and being made free from sin, ye became servants of righteousness.

19. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye presented your members as servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity, even so now present your members as servants to righteousness unto sanctification. (Roman 6:15-19)

So we should not continue in sin anymore, if we have set our hope our Lord Yeshua.

Correct, before the Holy Spirit came into our hearts and poured GOD's LOVE there (Rom. 5:5), our lifestyles were characterized by continually striving to do whatever pleased our flesh. NOW with GOD's LOVE in our hearts, it spawns a new nature, one that is characterized by continually striving to do what pleases GOD.

Romans 5:5 (NRSV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us.

Are we perfect at this Walk? NO, but that is the direction we headed, and perfection is our aim point. And what do we do when we stumble? Continually confessing and repenting of each new sin is ALSO part of our new nature that spawned out of GOD's LOVE that is now in our hearts.

1 John 1:9 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That confess is in the Greek Primary Verb "Perfect Tense", which English does not have. Our Primary Verb Tenses are limited to Past, Present, and Future Tenses. Whereas the Greek "Perfect Tense" implies an ongoing lifestyle of striving to do that verb. In other words, "confessing sin" is a continual lifestyle, of the true believer. Not confessing sins that were confessed and repented of in the past, but each new that we discover in our lives. He who thinks he has quit sinning, only proves he has not studied enough to know what all actually is sin.

Romans 14:23 (BBE)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But he who is in doubt is judged if he takes food,
because he does it not in faith;
and whatever is not of faith is sin.

James 4:17 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So it is a sin for the person who knows to do what is good and doesn’t do it.

1 John 3:17 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?

Colossians 3:5 (NIV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature:
sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and
greed, which is idolatry.

Romans 12:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For by the grace given to me, I tell everyone among you
not to think of himself more highly than he should think.
Instead, think sensibly, as God has distributed a measure
of faith to each one.

Romans 12:9-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another;

ETC.

 

[Grace777x70]

Apply the proper definition to the perfect tense to 1John 1:9 that you quoted..

Perfect Tense


The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.


So, 1 John 1:9 says that those who confessed they had sins at one point in the past....were completely forgiven and that forgiveness is in a completed state continuously in the present.

 

[Grace777x70]

Actually I spoke without looking at the greek ( I had assumed that you did )

1 John 1:9 "confess" is in the present tense not the perfect tense...it means that when we confess our sins ( when we come to Him ) He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.....it's a good deal..come to Christ..admit we are sinners and need a Savior..Jesus' blood has already bought our redemption and we become the righteousness of God in Christ. WOW!

 

[VCO]

Apply the proper definition to the perfect tense to 1John 1:9 that you quoted..

Perfect Tense


The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.


So, 1 John 1:9 says that those who confessed they had sins at one point in the past....were completely forgiven and that forgiveness is in a completed state continuously in the present.

I think you are confusing Judicial Forgiveness paid for on the cross, with Parental Forgiveness offered to those of us who are genuinely adopted children of GOD, who by nature confess sin and turn away from it. Each confessed each sin is completely forgiven, and all sin was paid for on the cross, but that is NOT THE POINT in 1 John 1:9. It is within our new nature to WANT TO CONFESS each sin to our Heavenly Father, and that is anything form of sin we discover in our lives as long as we are in this fallible, mortal body, with a born again human spirit.

If one does NOT want to confess sin, I would have to question if that person truly was ever born again.

1:9

Continual confession of sin is an indication of genuine salvation. While the false teachers would not admit their sin, the genuine Christian admitted and forsook it (Ps. 32:3-5; Prov. 28:13). The term confess means to say the same thing about sin as God does; to acknowledge His perspective about sin. While verse 7 is from God’s perspective, verse 9 is from the Christian’s perspective. Confession of sin characterizes genuine Christians, and God continually cleanses those who are confessing (cf. v. 7). Rather than focusing on confession for every single sin as necessary, John has especially in mind here a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness (Eph. 4:32; Col. 2:13).

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

1:9 In order for us to walk day by day in fellowship with God and with our fellow believers, we must confess our sins: sins of commission, sins of omission, sins of thought, sins of act, secret sins, and public sins. We must drag them out into the open before God, call them by their names, take sides with God against them, and forsake them. Yes, true confession involves forsaking of sins: "He who covers his sins will not prosper: but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy" (Prov. 28:13).When we do that, we can claim the promise that God is faithful and just to forgive. He is faithful in the sense that He has promised to forgive and will abide by His promise. He is just to forgive because He has found a righteous basis for forgiveness in the substitutionary work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. And not only does He guarantee to forgive, but also to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
The forgiveness John speaks about here is parental, not judicial. Judicial forgiveness means forgiveness from the penalty of sins, which the sinner receives when he believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. It is called judicial because it is granted by God acting as Judge. But what about sins which a person commits after conversion? As far as the penalty is concerned, the price has already been paid by the Lord Jesus on the cross of Calvary. But as far as fellowship in the family of God is concerned, the sinning saint needs parental forgiveness, that is, the forgiveness of His Father. He obtains it by confessing his sin. We need judicial forgiveness only once; that takes care of the penalty of all our sins—past, present, and future. But we need parental forgiveness throughout our Christian life.
When we confess our sins, we must believe, on the authority of the word of God, that He forgives us. And if He forgives us, we must be willing to forgive ourselves.

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.

1:9.

In view of verse 8, Christians ought to be ready at all times to acknowledge any failure which God's light may expose to them. Thus John wrote, If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. Though the niv's translation "our sins" (after the words "forgive us") is quite admissible, "our" is not in the Greek text. The phrase (tas hamartias) contains only an article and noun and it is conceivable that the article is the type which grammarians call "the article of previous reference." If so, there is a subtle contrast between this expression and the "all unrighteousness" which follows it. John's thought might be paraphrased: "If we confess our sins, He... will forgive the sins we confess and moreover will even cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Naturally only God knows at any moment the full extent of a person's unrighteousness. Each Christian, however, is responsible to acknowledge (the meaning of "confess," homologōmen; cf. 2:23; 4:3) whatever the light makes him aware of, and when he does so, a complete and perfect cleansing is granted him. There is thus no need to agonize over sins of which one is unaware.
Moreover, it is comforting to learn that the forgiveness which is promised here is both absolutely assured (because God "is faithful") and also is in no way contrary to His holiness (He is "just"). The word used here for "just" (dikaios) is the same one which is applied as a title to Christ in 2:1 where it is translated "the Righteous One." Dikaios is also used of God (either the Father or the Son) in 2:29 and 3:7. Obviously God is "just" or "righteous" when He forgives the believer's sin because of the "atoning sacrifice" which the Lord Jesus has made (see 2:2). As is already evident from 1:7, a Christian's fellowship with God is inseparably connected with the effectiveness of the blood which Jesus shed for him.
In modern times some have occasionally denied that a Christian needs to confess his sins and ask forgiveness. It is claimed that a believer already has forgiveness in Christ (Eph. 1:7). But this point of view confuses the perfect position which a Christian has in God's Son (by which he is even "seated... with Him in the heavenly realms" [Eph. 2:6]) with his needs as a failing individual on earth. What is considered in 1 John 1:9 may be described as "familial" forgiveness. It is perfectly understandable how a son may need to ask his father to forgive him for his faults while at the same time his position within the family is not in jeopardy A Christian who never asks his heavenly Father for forgiveness for his sins can hardly have much sensitivity to the ways in which he grieves his Father. Furthermore, the Lord Jesus Himself taught His followers to seek forgiveness of their sins in a prayer that was obviously intended for daily use (cf. the expression "give us today our daily bread" preceding "forgive us our debts," Matt. 6:11-12). The teaching that a Christian should not ask God for daily forgiveness is an aberration. Moreover, confession of sin is never connected by John with the acquisition of eternal life, which is always conditioned on faith. First John 1:9 is not spoken to the unsaved, and the effort to turn it into a soteriological affirmation is misguided.
It may also be said that so long as the idea of walking in the light or darkness is correctly understood on an experiential level, these concepts offer no difficulty. "Darkness" has an ethical meaning (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, s.v. "skotos," 7:444). When a believer loses personal touch with the God of light, he begins to live in darkness. But confession of sin is the way back into the light.

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

 

[Grace777x70]

I hah no idea there were different kinds of forgiveness?....are there different kinds of cleanses too?...are there different kinds of heavens for us to go to?....different kinds of "being in Christ"?......all that sounds like something that is "man-made"

I agree that we should go and confess all things to the Father whether sins or what He has said in His word concerning all things...

..confess means to "say the same thing"....I confess a lot of things to my Father....like I am the righteousness of God in Christ...I confess that Jesus' Blood cleanses all my sin ....I confess I am in Christ..

Confessing is a beautiful thing!!!

 

[FreeNChrist]

I think you are confusing Judicial Forgiveness paid for on the cross, with Parental Forgiveness

I've always gotten a kick out of that one.

 

[Grace777x70]

It's those religious man-made "scriptures" that get me too...now some poor young Christian "trying to live the Christian life " will be all confused about forgiveness if they read that.....that stuff is a shame..

I've always gotten a kick out of that one.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I hah no idea there were different kinds of forgiveness?....are there different kinds of cleanses too?...are there different kinds of heavens for us to go to?....different kinds of "being in Christ"?......all that sounds like something that is "man-made"

I agree that we should go and confess all things to the Father whether sins or what He has said in His word concerning all things...

..confess means to "say the same thing"....I confess a lot of things to my Father....like I am the righteousness of God in Christ...I confess that Jesus' Blood cleanses all my sin ....I confess I am in Christ..

Confessing is a beautiful thing!!!

And what do you confess when you sin?

Grace777: GOD, that's not who I am in Christ.

GOD: I know. That's who you are in Adam.

 

[Grace777x70]

Whatever the sin is..is what i talk with my Father abou..t..and of course I tell Him what His Son has done for me

I thank Him for forgiveness in His Son's blood for me...I thank Him for His great love and grace!

He's a great , good, loving Father.

You should met Him someday.

And what do you confess when you sin?

Grace777: GOD, that's not who I am in Christ.

GOD: I know. That's who you are in Adam.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I hah no idea there were different kinds of forgiveness?....are there different kinds of cleanses too?...are there different kinds of heavens for us to go to?....different kinds of "being in Christ"?......all that sounds like something that is "man-made"

Actually, under the old covenant there were different types of forgiveness. There were sin offerings for willful sin. There were guilt offerings for not willful sin (for lack of better words, and no desire to explain it further). These were individual offerings. National forgiveness was accomplished on the day of atonement one day a year.

And then there were different types of cleansings which I won't go into.

And then Paul talks about the third heaven, so obviously there is more than one.

 

[Grace777x70]

Good ones for the Old Covenant..I don't live in the Old...do you?...whatcha got for the New Covenant for forgiveness?

Actually, under the old covenant there were different types of forgiveness. There were sin offerings for willful sin. There were guilt offerings for not willful sin (for lack of better words, and no desire to explain it further). These were individual offerings. National forgiveness was accomplished on the day of atonement one day a year.

And then there were different types of cleansings which I won't go into.

And then Paul talks about the third heaven, so obviously there is more than one.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Good ones for the Old Covenant..I don't live in the Old...do you?...whatcha got for the New Covenant for forgiveness?

Everything in the old covenant is a shadow of realities in Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

What do you confess?

HeRose : "god", I thank you that I am not like the others..that I can slander, bear false witness and with venomous malice attack those that trust in this " Jesus only "

God: "This is My beloved Son. Hear Him only!" You are forgiven because of My Son's blood. He has paid it all for you! Trust Him!

( psst..I forgive you too!..God bless you! )

And what do you confess when you sin?

Grace777: GOD, that's not who I am in Christ.

GOD: I know. That's who you are in Adam.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Everything in the old covenant is a shadow of realities in Christ.

.....but not the realities themselves.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

.....but not the realities themselves.

True, but all shadows are very instructional about the realities.