Acts 15 proves that gentiles have never been under the law of Moses

[Kefa54]

Gentiles were never under Mosaic Law. They were under Patriarchal Law.

Patriarchal Law

Prior to the giving of the Mosaic law, the whole world was under what is commonly called Patriarchal law.
The father of each household was the family “priest,” so to speak. He led the worship by the offering of sacrifices to God.
The Lord communicated directly with the people in various ways, e.g., by dreams (Gen. 31:11), visions (Gen. 46:2), personal appearances (Gen. 18:1), and specially appointed emissaries like Melchizedek (see Gen. 14:1ff; cf. also Heb. 1:1).
The patriarchal worship system is well illustrated in the lives of such men as Job (cf. 1:5) and Abraham (Gen. 12:8; 13:4, etc.).

When the Hebrews were segregated from the balance of humanity, as a “holy people” for Jehovah’s “own possession” (Dt. 7:6; 14:2), the Gentiles continued under the Patriarchal system until they were offered the gospel, and the Patriarchal regime was replaced by the international Christian system (Acts 10).

At times, certain Gentiles would join themselves to the Hebrews by means of the “proselyte” procedure. On the day of Pentecost there were assembled at Jerusalem both “Jews and proselytes” (Acts 2:11; cf. 6:5; 13:43).
This meant that male Gentiles would receive circumcision, and all of the “converts” to the Israelite system would accept the responsibilities of the Mosaic law. There was even a place in the temple (called the Court of the Gentiles) to accommodate these adherents to Judaism.

The Temple precincts was divided into 4 courts:

1. The Court of the Priests
2. The Court of Israel
3. The Court of the Women
4. The Court of the Gentiles

Kefa

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Gentiles were never under Mosaic Law. They were under Patriarchal Law.

“All our rabbis are united in teaching that the written and oral commandments, of which our religion consists, are binding only on our nation…all other peoples of the earth, we believe, are commanded by God to obey the law of nature and the religion of the patriarchs.” M. Mendelssohn, Schriften zum Judentum (1930), 1:303​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

.
Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary: Acts 15:28-29

The whole language of these prohibitions, and of Act 15:20-21, implies that they were designed as concessions to Jewish feelings on the part of the Gentile converts, and not as things which were all of unchanging obligation. ​

 

[gotime]

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

IF you think that "the law of Moses" here was simply a reference to the law and the prophets you would be in error.

another text often misused or totally ignored is this:

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

indicating clearly that the four things were things needed now in order to calm problems between Jew and Gentile and that the Gentiles would learn the rest of the law/written law by way of synagogue every Sabbath.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

IF you think that "the law of Moses" here was simply a reference to the law and the prophets you would be in error.

another text often misused or totally ignored is this:

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

indicating clearly that the four things were things needed now in order to calm problems between Jew and Gentile and that the Gentiles would learn the rest of the law/written law by way of synagogue every Sabbath.

Acts 15:21 simply means that the believing gentiles initially went to the synagogues because that's were the scrolls of scripture were and where Paul and others initially taught. That eventually changed as believers were kicked out of the synagogues. Gentile believers were never under the 10 commandments as Acts 15 proves.

 

[Cee]

Excellent thread.

Here's one Scripture that shows the laws that were destroyed were in fact the Big 10 not "ordinances, customs" or whatever else you want to divide the law up into, this usually comes from a Sabbath Keeping mindset, since loving God and loving people doesn't fit into that box.

2 Co 3:7Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. 10Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

Paul says:
1. The LAW (Big 10) is the ministry of death
2. It is brought to an end
3. This law is the one engraved in STONE (not ordinances, etc)
4. The ministry of spirit which is the ministry of righteousness exceeds this law into PERMANENT glory.

Next point about this thread-
We were never under the law. We are the Gentiles that Paul says are judged by their heart.

And when we become believers, we do not come in through Moses, we come in through Christ. And Christ comes in through Abraham. The LAW was given for a few specific purposes...

18For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. 19Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

The law was to shut people up in sin, so that they would realize they needed a Savior, no person has ever been made righteous by the law. Abraham the father of faith was made righteous because he believed God. This is the same for every single person. The law is to show us that we can't do it. We need Christ. If you currently think the law is doable this Scripture is for you.

Matt 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

The Pharisees devoted their entire life to keeping the law. They followed laws that stopped them from breaking 10 commandments, and in the process they made themselves:

Matt 23:27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people’s bones and all uncleanness.

Because they focused on behavior instead of the "heart". Now Jesus tells us that love actually fulfills the law. Because the law was given so that people would have a model of what "love in action" looks like...

And as far as the saying "we don't murder" shows we need the 10 Commandments, Paul addresses this:

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Great thread.

C.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Here's one Scripture that shows the laws that were destroyed were in fact the Big 10 not "ordinances, customs" or whatever else you want to divide the law up into, this usually comes from a Sabbath Keeping mindset, since loving God and loving people doesn't fit into that box.

2 Co 3:7Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. 10Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

Paul says:
1. The LAW (Big 10) is the ministry of death
2. It is brought to an end
3. This law is the one engraved in STONE (not ordinances, etc)
4. The ministry of spirit which is the ministry of righteousness exceeds this law into PERMANENT glory.

Beautiful. I just saw something I've never seen before; verse 7 has the same word as verse 13. I knew that abolished in verse 13 was the same as in Ephesians 2:15, but this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that that which was abolished was the 10 commandments (plus the rest of the law).

But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away: 2 Corinthians 3:7

And not as Moses, [which] put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 2 Corinthians 3:13

done away/abolish
G2673 καταργέω katargeo
1. to make entirely idle

GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON of the NEW TESTAMENT BASED ON SEMANTIC DOMAINS
76.26 καταργέωc: to render ineffective the power or force of something—‘to invalidate, to abolish, to cause not to function.’ τὸν νόμον τῶν ἐντολῶν ἐν δόγμασιν καταργήσας ‘to abolish the Law of commandments consisting of regulations’ Eph 2:15;​

This is the same word in Ephesians 2:14-15

For [Christ] is our peace, who has made both [Jew and gentile] one, destroying the middle wall of the barrier, the enmity, in his flesh; having abolished the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that of the two he should make in himself one new man, so making peace. Ephesians 2:14-15​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And when we become believers, we do not come in through Moses, we come in through Christ. And Christ comes in through Abraham. The LAW was given for a few specific purposes...

In case you haven't seen this already, Genesis 15 proves that GOD promised Abraham to give the land to Christ. I'm sure you know that Paul said as much in Galatians 3:16.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Galatians 3:16​

When GOD promised to give the land to Abram, Abram asked GOD for surety that he would indeed receive the land.

And [GOD] said unto [Abram], I [am] the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it. And [Abram] said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it? Genesis 15:7-8​

GOD responded with a blood covenant.

In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Genesis 15:18​

Seed in this verse can only mean Christ because GOD vowing to give the land to Abram's descendents would not have given Abram any confidence that he would receive the land, because his descendents would die just as he would, and he could receive nothing from them. But Abram knew that GOD was referring to the coming redeemer who would resurrect him in the last day and give him his inheritance of the land. Amazing faith.

That IMO is why Jesus said that Abraham saw Christ's day and rejoiced.

Abraham your father rejoiced that he would see my day, and he saw [it] and was glad.” John 8:56​

 

[prove-all]

In case you haven't seen this already, Genesis 15 proves that GOD promised Abraham to give the land to Christ. I'm sure you know that Paul said as much in Galatians 3:16.

there is a big differance between the one seed, that the whole world would be blessed by,
and the promise of Abrahams decendents becomming as many the sands of the seashore.


the septer promise [and] also the birthright nations promise ,
there is plenty verses that say the land was given to there fathers,
to live in , flowing with milk and honey.

These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land,
which the Lord God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.

Then hear thou from the heavens, and forgive the sin of thy people Israel,
and bring them again unto the land which thou gavest to them and to their fathers.

That they may fear thee, to walk in thy ways, so long as they live in the land
which thou gavest unto our fathers.

Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land:
but for the wickedness of these nations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee,
and that he may perform the word which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.​

​

​

​

 

[Cee]

Seed in this verse can only mean Christ because GOD vowing to give the land to Abram's descendents would not have given Abram any confidence that he would receive the land, because his descendents would die just as he would, and he could receive nothing from them. But Abram knew that GOD was referring to the coming redeemer who would resurrect him in the last day and give him his inheritance of the land. Amazing faith.

That IMO is why Jesus said that Abraham saw Christ's day and rejoiced.

Abraham your father rejoiced that he would see my day, and he saw [it] and was glad.” John 8:56
​

This is interesting. So you're saying Abram was asking how would he inherit the land after death and resurrection? When the Bible says the meek shall inherit the Earth? I've never heard this view point before. Can you explain it more?

 

[Cee]

there is a big differance between the one seed, that the whole world would be blessed by,
and the promise of Abrahams decendents becomming as many the sands of the seashore.

If you think about this, this is TRILLIONS of people if not more, I believe personally that this promise is the same. All the nations shall be blessed through you Abraham. Every single person who believes in Christ comes in through Abraham. This fulfills this promise, IMO.

Moses was a covenant between Israelites. Abraham was a covenant to the world.

C.

 

[PeterJens]

The Pharisees devoted their entire life to keeping the law. They followed laws that stopped them from breaking 10 commandments, and in the process they made themselves:

Matt 23:27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people’s bones and all uncleanness.

The pharisees wanted to appear to be following the law while breaking it in private.
The problem was not the law but their failure because their hearts were focused on self interest and power and not the Lord.

It simply does not work to say following the law in the problem or the law has no validity.
The only valid biblical claim is Christ empowers us to be over-comers. Dealing with the heart, sorting out our emotions and history means becoming children of God.

Love does overcome, but I have mainly heard people wondering at what is love rather than leaping for joy in victory.

I do admit that in praise you can get carried away with elation, believing this will make people victorious, but I do not believe this. I think it is just emotional elation. Asking someone to learn how to love their brother when their brother is very determined to stay very independent and definitely not share anything that makes them vulnerable.

Unfortunately I have met "spiritual" christians who are more determined to affirm their superiority rather than learn how to be a servant one to another. It makes me cynical when these "christians" claim I must not be saved so I do not respect their authority. It was Jesus who washed the feet of the disciples as a sign of true leadership.

It is like the true preachers of the church are those flying around the world in jets, living in mansions, and enjoying all the pleasures of the world which even Jesus turned down as works of the enemy. How do you deal with a stressful day, indulge yourself with a shopping trip, buying trinkets just flows out of scripture.

 

[roaringkitten]

ROMANS concludes that All are under the condemnation of the law and the GUILT OF THE WHOLE WORLD!

One should note that in the NT, there are different "laws". There is the Mosaic law(ie: Acts 13:39), law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus(Rom 8:2a), law of sin and death(Rom 8:2b), etc...One needs to look at the context to decide which law a verse is speaking about. The Gentiles were NEVER under the Mosaic law! There is the big problem with people taking Scripture out of context, ascribing verses that speak of specific covenants made by God to the Jewish nation of Israel to audiences they were not intended! According to 1 Cor 10:32, Scripture in the Word is either spoken to:

1)The Jews
2)The Gentiles
3)The church(which are composed of Jews and Gentiles)

...Or some verses speak in a universal sense(ie: Isa 45:22)

To us believers, all Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction of righteousness(2 Tim 3:16), but not all of it is applied directly to the church!( ie: circumcision, animal sacrifices, etc)

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This is interesting. So you're saying Abram was asking how would he inherit the land after death and resurrection? When the Bible says the meek shall inherit the Earth? I've never heard this view point before. Can you explain it more?

I don't know what else I can say, but to restate it.

GOD promised Abraham the land and then Abraham requested that GOD confirm his promise to him.

And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it? Genesis 15:8​

GOD made a blood covenant with him to give him surety. This was a very serious affair. There was no pact more solemn and binding than a blood covenant. Why didn't GOD vow to give the land to Abraham? Because in verse 15 GOD said that he would die.

And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. Genesis 15:15​

And then the land was promised to his seed.

In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Genesis 15:18​

If I promised you a piece of land, and you asked for confirmation that you would indeed receive it from me, what confidence would it give you if I drew up contract guaranteeing that your offspring would receive the land? It wouldn't. Neither would it have given Abraham confidence for his faith because he couldn't receive anything from them being dead.

So Abraham knew that GOD promised the land to the messiah who would be his seed, and in the resurrection he would receive the land from him. That gave him the confidence that he needed to the point of being willing to offer up his own son on the altar.

 

[eternallife7]

The law of Moses is now for the ungodly. 1 Timothy 1:9

 

[Cee]

Thank you for explaining this, I've never looked at this way before. So Abraham was looking forward to a Messiah already even in the OT? Where do you see that the people of God at this time knew a Messiah would come? I do know Abraham said "we will return" when he took his son to be sacrificed, so it shows he knew God would bring him back to life.

I don't know what else I can say, but to restate it.

GOD promised Abraham the land and then Abraham requested that GOD confirm his promise to him.

And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it? Genesis 15:8​

GOD made a blood covenant with him to give him surety. This was a very serious affair. There was no pact more solemn and binding than a blood covenant. Why didn't GOD vow to give the land to Abraham? Because in verse 15 GOD said that he would die.

And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. Genesis 15:15​

And then the land was promised to his seed.

In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Genesis 15:18​

If I promised you a piece of land, and you asked for confirmation that you would indeed receive it from me, what confidence would it give you if I drew up contract guaranteeing that your offspring would receive the land? It wouldn't. Neither would it have given Abraham confidence for his faith because he couldn't receive anything from them being dead.

So Abraham knew that GOD promised the land to the messiah who would be his seed, and in the resurrection he would receive the land from him. That gave him the confidence that he needed to the point of being willing to offer up his own son on the altar.

 

[Jilly81]

Thank you for explaining this, I've never looked at this way before. So Abraham was looking forward to a Messiah already even in the OT? Where do you see that the people of God at this time knew a Messiah would come? I do know Abraham said "we will return" when he took his son to be sacrificed, so it shows he knew God would bring him back to life.

I think many people from long ago knew of the Messiah's coming arrival due to the meanings of the names of the descendants of Adam. Starting from Adam and ending with his great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandson Noah, their names in order translated mean "Mankind appointed mortal sorrow. The blessed God shall come down teaching. His death shall bring the despairing rest."

A Hidden Message: The Gospel in Genesis - Chuck Missler - Koinonia House

The name Noah can translate either "rest" or "comfort", actually .

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Thank you for explaining this, I've never looked at this way before. So Abraham was looking forward to a Messiah already even in the OT? Where do you see that the people of God at this time knew a Messiah would come? I do know Abraham said "we will return" when he took his son to be sacrificed, so it shows he knew God would bring him back to life.

IMO Abraham was taught the faith of the coming redeemer by either Noah or Shem. Noah live concurrently with Abraham about 57-58 years, and Shem was alive for over a hundred years while Abraham was alive. Abraham moved to Haran which was near the Ararat mtns where the ark rested.

 

[prove-all]

Moses was a covenant between Israelites. Abraham was a covenant to the world.

C.

the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory,
belong sole to Israel (Romans 9:4).

 

[royalscot]

ROMANS concludes that All are under the condemnation of the law and the GUILT OF THE WHOLE WORLD!

18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.Romans 5


who,s act saved you. if jesus has fixed this condemnation, then how can the law condem anyone. did he save them under the law, as well as, them that never had the law of moses. ie sin, brought certain death,(adam, etc) with death now conquered etc. (jesus) the past believers ,(old test) never knew about a resurrection etc. so a resurrection can save them too.

he was a saviour to both, jews and gentiles.

For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


the key words, of whoever believes in him, would extend to both, jews and gentiles. in 0 ad to present day. etc