Vote on Obsession with confession(1st John 1:9,sin confession)
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Well here's what it says. John clearly wrote 1 John to his little children. That would be those whom he taught the faith.
If we say that we do not have sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, so that he will forgive us [our] sins and will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. My little children, I am writing these [things] to you in order that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous [one], 1 John 1:8-2:1
1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.
have been forgiven = perfect passive
Perfect Tense
The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.
passive = mood = action is happening to you....you are not doing it
Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous state and that was put on them....not something they did
Brethren ...we have a great salvation in our Lord!
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.
have been forgiven = perfect passive
Perfect Tense
The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.
passive = mood = action is happening to you....you are not doing it
Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous state and that was put on them....not something they did
Brethren ...we have a great salvation in our Lord!
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we ( believers - namely John ) have looked at and our hands have touched - this we proclaim concerning the Word of Life"
(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion.
"We ( believers - namely John himself ) proclaim to you ( unbelievers - gnostics ) what we have seen and heard, so that you (unbelievers - gnostics ) also may have fellowship with us ( believers ). And our ( believers )fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).
This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics ( unbelievers ) to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ. Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ. ( just like we do now in all churches....there are both types of people )
"This is the message we ( believers ) have heard from Him and declare to you ( unbelievers ): God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all" (verse 5).
John's message in this verse is clear: God is light and in Him there is no darkness. We are either in the light (saved) or in darkness (lost). Scriptures are full of this comparison between light (saved) vs. darkness (lost).
"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).
In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics ( not true believers ) claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.
"If we ( believers ) walk in the light, as He is in the light, we ( believers ) have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us ( believers ) from all sin" (verse 7).
In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins.We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.
"If we ( John putting all of us in the same boat before coming to Christ ) claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (verse 8).
John is now addressing the belief the Gnostics had regarding sin because they didn't believe it was real and therefore believed they had no sin. The "we" John is using here refers to all people before coming to Christ including all believers too which "we" had to acknowledge at some point in our lives. He is referring specifically to the Gnostics, who believed they were without sin. Because they claimed to be without sin, then they were only deceiving themselves and the truth (Jesus) was not in them.
However, verse 9 says that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." In other words, if the Gnostics were to confess they had sins, then God, Who is faithful and righteous, would forgive and cleanse them from their unrighteousness. In the Greek language, the words "forgive" and "cleanse" mean past actions that have results today and will continue to have results in the future. Also, the word "all" used in these verses means all. It doesn't mean that we are cleansed of our past sins and our past unrighteousness, it means we were cleansed of all our unrighteousness. And if God cleanses us from all unrighteousness, then we are cleansed forever!
"If we claim we ( all of us were in this boat at one time ) have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word has no place in our lives" (verse 10).
Basically this verse is a repeat of verse 8. To put it simply, it means that the Gnostics can't claim to be without sin and yet be saved. John is saying that because the Gnostics claimed they had no sin, they were actually calling God a liar and therefore didn't know the truth.
The purpose of the first chapter of 1 John was to compare the truth of God to the error of gnosticism. John was addressing the Gnostics, who were deceived by their own teaching. He wanted the Gnostics to understand that what they believed conflicted with what God said. He was not, however, addressing believers.
(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion.
"We ( believers - namely John himself ) proclaim to you ( unbelievers - gnostics ) what we have seen and heard, so that you (unbelievers - gnostics ) also may have fellowship with us ( believers ). And our ( believers )fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).
This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics ( unbelievers ) to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ. Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ. ( just like we do now in all churches....there are both types of people )
"This is the message we ( believers ) have heard from Him and declare to you ( unbelievers ): God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all" (verse 5).
John's message in this verse is clear: God is light and in Him there is no darkness. We are either in the light (saved) or in darkness (lost). Scriptures are full of this comparison between light (saved) vs. darkness (lost).
"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).
In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics ( not true believers ) claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.
"If we ( believers ) walk in the light, as He is in the light, we ( believers ) have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us ( believers ) from all sin" (verse 7).
In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins.We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.
"If we ( John putting all of us in the same boat before coming to Christ ) claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (verse 8).
John is now addressing the belief the Gnostics had regarding sin because they didn't believe it was real and therefore believed they had no sin. The "we" John is using here refers to all people before coming to Christ including all believers too which "we" had to acknowledge at some point in our lives. He is referring specifically to the Gnostics, who believed they were without sin. Because they claimed to be without sin, then they were only deceiving themselves and the truth (Jesus) was not in them.
However, verse 9 says that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." In other words, if the Gnostics were to confess they had sins, then God, Who is faithful and righteous, would forgive and cleanse them from their unrighteousness. In the Greek language, the words "forgive" and "cleanse" mean past actions that have results today and will continue to have results in the future. Also, the word "all" used in these verses means all. It doesn't mean that we are cleansed of our past sins and our past unrighteousness, it means we were cleansed of all our unrighteousness. And if God cleanses us from all unrighteousness, then we are cleansed forever!
"If we claim we ( all of us were in this boat at one time ) have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word has no place in our lives" (verse 10).
Basically this verse is a repeat of verse 8. To put it simply, it means that the Gnostics can't claim to be without sin and yet be saved. John is saying that because the Gnostics claimed they had no sin, they were actually calling God a liar and therefore didn't know the truth.
The purpose of the first chapter of 1 John was to compare the truth of God to the error of gnosticism. John was addressing the Gnostics, who were deceived by their own teaching. He wanted the Gnostics to understand that what they believed conflicted with what God said. He was not, however, addressing believers.
You have missed the point. Be perfect in loving your enemies as the Father is perfect in loving your enemies.
Think about this issue. I like a certain type of music, but could I call that perfect or imperfect. Does this language even apply to music? God likes certain types of music and expression, he commanded musicians to write and play and sing.
Jesus is not asking me to have the same attitude, else it is saying I must be a clone of God.
So Jesus is saying in love we must be like God, blessing those who curse us, turning the other cheek, being forgiving and kind when we are insulted and abused.
You use such statements to raise failure in a legalistic sense to the impossible and so justify failure as success is impossible.
Jesus came to earth to say the walk is possible, we can be pleasing to God in our walk if we follow Jesus.
But fundamentally you do not believe this. You feel you are a slave to sin and not righteousness. Your answer to me will be "you are a sinner, do not deny it" which is the self condemnation argument, walking in righteousness is a dream. But then you deny the power of the cross and sanctification. Paul felt he had "run the race" found purity and righteousness in his walk, but you do not believe him.
Think about this issue. I like a certain type of music, but could I call that perfect or imperfect. Does this language even apply to music? God likes certain types of music and expression, he commanded musicians to write and play and sing.
Jesus is not asking me to have the same attitude, else it is saying I must be a clone of God.
So Jesus is saying in love we must be like God, blessing those who curse us, turning the other cheek, being forgiving and kind when we are insulted and abused.
You use such statements to raise failure in a legalistic sense to the impossible and so justify failure as success is impossible.
Jesus came to earth to say the walk is possible, we can be pleasing to God in our walk if we follow Jesus.
But fundamentally you do not believe this. You feel you are a slave to sin and not righteousness. Your answer to me will be "you are a sinner, do not deny it" which is the self condemnation argument, walking in righteousness is a dream. But then you deny the power of the cross and sanctification. Paul felt he had "run the race" found purity and righteousness in his walk, but you do not believe him.
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When we read the Bible, we need to look at the context in which each book was written. If we don't do that, it's easy to misinterpret what a particular book or chapter is really saying. When that happens, we can easily come to wrong conclusions, which can then cause a lot of misunderstanding about the work of Christ on our behalf.
You are trying to convert us. It is obvious that if you think we were saved there is nothing more to do, because we are overcomers. Now if we already were overcomers there is nothing more to say in your eyes.
We on the other hand believe walking in righteousness matters, learning to listen and learn from the Lord is a step by step.
So we believe you are leading people astray into deception and denial of sin which needs confession and dealing with.
But therefore in your own logic you believe there is more to faith than just believing in Jesus. How you walk matters or else you would not carry on arguing.
We on the other hand believe walking in righteousness matters, learning to listen and learn from the Lord is a step by step.
So we believe you are leading people astray into deception and denial of sin which needs confession and dealing with.
But therefore in your own logic you believe there is more to faith than just believing in Jesus. How you walk matters or else you would not carry on arguing.
That' s why John changed his talk in chapter 2 verse 1 to "My little children"..because now he was addressing them..telling them that their Advocate was standing in for them..
John goes on to teach the little children about things.......this is why he started teaching the little children....and does for the rest of the chapter..especially verse 12
1 John 2:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
[SUP]2 [/SUP] and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
John wanted the little children in the faith to know this in verse 12...it's in knowing who we are in Christ in our inner man that stops us from sinning..which is why john wrote.."I write these things so that you do not sin."
1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.
have been forgiven = perfect passive
Perfect Tense
The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.
passive = mood = action is happening to you....you are not doing it
Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous state and that was put on them....not something they did
John goes on to teach the little children about things.......this is why he started teaching the little children....and does for the rest of the chapter..especially verse 12
1 John 2:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
[SUP]2 [/SUP] and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
John wanted the little children in the faith to know this in verse 12...it's in knowing who we are in Christ in our inner man that stops us from sinning..which is why john wrote.."I write these things so that you do not sin."
1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.
have been forgiven = perfect passive
Perfect Tense
The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.
passive = mood = action is happening to you....you are not doing it
Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous state and that was put on them....not something they did
And you have absolutely no evidence to support your claim. It's completely made up for your own agenda. It's a completely ridiculous distinction because there is nothing in the text to warrant such.
This is what John's letter would have looked like
and he was saying basically this: My little children, I am writing to you these things about saying we have no sin, etc., so that you don't sin (i.e., believe what the gnostics believe).
This is what John's letter would have looked like
and he was saying basically this: My little children, I am writing to you these things about saying we have no sin, etc., so that you don't sin (i.e., believe what the gnostics believe).
I found the below question and answer interesting...
Q. I believe your teaching that Jesus’ payment for my sins covers all of my sins from birth to death. Why do some teachers teach that the Lord’s death only covers one’s past sins, and we are personally responsible for our future ones?
A. People who teach that only our pre-salvation sins are covered don’t fully comprehend what happened at the cross. The Bible says His death was a once-for-all-time sacrifice for sin that has made perfect forever those who are being made Holy (Hebrews 10:12-14).
“Once-for-all-time” means His death covered every sin from the beginning of time until the end. “Made perfect forever” means every sin of our lifetime was paid for with His blood. “Made holy” means we are sanctified, set apart from profane things and dedicated to God. Colossians 2:13-14 confirms this.
This is why Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Cor. 1:21-22 and other places can promise that our salvation is guaranteed when we believe. If any of our future sins could cause our salvation to be revoked, Paul could not have made that promise.
And Finally, John called Jesus the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29).
From the cross Jesus said, “It is finished” and died (John 19:30). The job He came to do was accomplished. The Lamb of God had taken away the sin of the world. All that’s left for us to do is believe it.
“For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:38-39).
Q. I believe your teaching that Jesus’ payment for my sins covers all of my sins from birth to death. Why do some teachers teach that the Lord’s death only covers one’s past sins, and we are personally responsible for our future ones?
A. People who teach that only our pre-salvation sins are covered don’t fully comprehend what happened at the cross. The Bible says His death was a once-for-all-time sacrifice for sin that has made perfect forever those who are being made Holy (Hebrews 10:12-14).
“Once-for-all-time” means His death covered every sin from the beginning of time until the end. “Made perfect forever” means every sin of our lifetime was paid for with His blood. “Made holy” means we are sanctified, set apart from profane things and dedicated to God. Colossians 2:13-14 confirms this.
This is why Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Cor. 1:21-22 and other places can promise that our salvation is guaranteed when we believe. If any of our future sins could cause our salvation to be revoked, Paul could not have made that promise.
And Finally, John called Jesus the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29).
From the cross Jesus said, “It is finished” and died (John 19:30). The job He came to do was accomplished. The Lamb of God had taken away the sin of the world. All that’s left for us to do is believe it.
“For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:38-39).
L
Have missed a bunch of posts and am going back over some that have been posted. What you say here is telling. I have seen how believers seek to be where God wants., (it's how we GET there). And can you imagine it possible we are (already) there and just need to begin to walk it out - in the knowledge of His having taken care of our sin already and it's done? The forgiveness has been done already.
There is no hurdle to jump because while we are seeking to be in "right relationship" with God - it IS honoring to Him that we acknowledge that Jesus has ALREADY made us in right relationship. Then we are to REST IN what Jesus did while we THANK HIM - it's like getting saved again and again. We end up loving Him, loving our lives, being content, lacking nothing., loving people, loving the dog, the cat, the co workers, the annoying neighbor... All because we are YET AGAIN AWARE there is nothing we can do to be MORE close to God than we are right now because of Jesus. There is NOTHING that can separate us from the love of God that is IN Christ Jesus. It is that which brings us closer to God since He was always close, we just were not close to Him in our understanding of what it means.
What you described as 'experiencing' forgiveness and not just thinking about it is not just for those times we have some failure to report and then confess it, feel forgiven and then go and rejoice. No, instead it is to go and acknowledge Him in our failure and know that He has ALREADY taken care of it and then He directs our path straight into the JOY of our salvation.
There was a time I felt after having a sinful thought about someone and I needed to confess a sin to God; I had to wait until my 'sincerity' was at it's peak when I got home and in my alone time, got on my knees and got my Bible out and read the Psalms and got in the mood - in the (zone) of worship. (this might take some time) YIKES I'm so glad that IS NOT what God desired even though I was sooo sincere. It was never about me it was always about acknowledging Jesus IS right NOW an ever present help in time of need.
That is what keeps us on track., the love of God constrains us to walk in a way that is pleasing to Him. We are not avoiding sin out of fear like we used to but out of devotion from the new nature and new heart He put in us. It becomes who we are as we are becoming more intimately acquainted with Jesus and reflecting Him in our life. I'm fulfilling what God made me when I obey from the heart that form of doctrine. And do you see how again., Jesus and He alone is magnified and made to be larger in our lives and not us being the focus?
The minute we sin it's covered. Whether we walk in that forgiveness right then after it happened OR we wait and walk in it later after our much sorrow and show time. I've put aside that part (waiting) of how I used to confess, and instead take the forgiveness NOW offered supernaturally IN Christ that is IN and FOR us. The JOY of the Lord is most certainly our strength. It isn't the joy of our confession but the joy of His forgiveness as our way of life now. And that joy is right there for us as our minds are renewed again and again.
More to this but the experiencing of forgiveness is right there for us to walk in AND so is the JOY. It's those believers who are perpetually walking around happy and joyful that are a very peculiar people. Titus 2:14
Who gave Himself on our behalf that He might redeem us (purchase our freedom) from all iniquity and purity for Himself a people (to be peculiarly His own, people who are) EAGER and ENTHUSIASTIC about living a life that is good and filled with beneficial deeds. Amplified Bible.
There is no hurdle to jump because while we are seeking to be in "right relationship" with God - it IS honoring to Him that we acknowledge that Jesus has ALREADY made us in right relationship. Then we are to REST IN what Jesus did while we THANK HIM - it's like getting saved again and again. We end up loving Him, loving our lives, being content, lacking nothing., loving people, loving the dog, the cat, the co workers, the annoying neighbor... All because we are YET AGAIN AWARE there is nothing we can do to be MORE close to God than we are right now because of Jesus. There is NOTHING that can separate us from the love of God that is IN Christ Jesus. It is that which brings us closer to God since He was always close, we just were not close to Him in our understanding of what it means.
What you described as 'experiencing' forgiveness and not just thinking about it is not just for those times we have some failure to report and then confess it, feel forgiven and then go and rejoice. No, instead it is to go and acknowledge Him in our failure and know that He has ALREADY taken care of it and then He directs our path straight into the JOY of our salvation.
There was a time I felt after having a sinful thought about someone and I needed to confess a sin to God; I had to wait until my 'sincerity' was at it's peak when I got home and in my alone time, got on my knees and got my Bible out and read the Psalms and got in the mood - in the (zone) of worship. (this might take some time) YIKES I'm so glad that IS NOT what God desired even though I was sooo sincere. It was never about me it was always about acknowledging Jesus IS right NOW an ever present help in time of need.
That is what keeps us on track., the love of God constrains us to walk in a way that is pleasing to Him. We are not avoiding sin out of fear like we used to but out of devotion from the new nature and new heart He put in us. It becomes who we are as we are becoming more intimately acquainted with Jesus and reflecting Him in our life. I'm fulfilling what God made me when I obey from the heart that form of doctrine. And do you see how again., Jesus and He alone is magnified and made to be larger in our lives and not us being the focus?
The minute we sin it's covered. Whether we walk in that forgiveness right then after it happened OR we wait and walk in it later after our much sorrow and show time. I've put aside that part (waiting) of how I used to confess, and instead take the forgiveness NOW offered supernaturally IN Christ that is IN and FOR us. The JOY of the Lord is most certainly our strength. It isn't the joy of our confession but the joy of His forgiveness as our way of life now. And that joy is right there for us as our minds are renewed again and again.
More to this but the experiencing of forgiveness is right there for us to walk in AND so is the JOY. It's those believers who are perpetually walking around happy and joyful that are a very peculiar people. Titus 2:14
Who gave Himself on our behalf that He might redeem us (purchase our freedom) from all iniquity and purity for Himself a people (to be peculiarly His own, people who are) EAGER and ENTHUSIASTIC about living a life that is good and filled with beneficial deeds. Amplified Bible.